Vet P.O.V. Wild animals and pit bulls: No contest

January 25th, 2007  

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As a wildlife rehab worker, we see the other side of the current "fashion" for exotic pets. That's when the cute baby whatever that was bought (very often illegally), now grows up a bit and is no longer so cute and cuddly. One of our jobs is to take these animals - without throttling the stupid people involved - and to try rehab them back to a releasable state. A lot of the time, the animals and birds have been mutilated or kept so badly that the only option is euthanasia. Many of these have never had anything close to the correct diet or housing, and as a result have bone deformities and other permanent injuries. Many others are so emotionally damaged that they are unable to function in the natural environment.
Sometimes though, it's all worth it - when you see a tortoise that has been in solitary confinement for 40 years meet others of his kind, or when a group of suricates that have all been treated as family pets finally bond with each other, and start working together as a tribe. And we get to feel that maybe we are compensating a bit for the cruelty and stupidity of mankind

jcat January 25th, 2007 11:29:00 AM

I'd be a total hypocrite about the wild animal thing as I have alteast 3 animals in my home that are wild caught and were sold through the pet trade. Those three that I'm aware of would be Oscar ( blue front amazon) Zelda ( yellow-footed tortoise) and Mozart, my Russian Tortoise.

All of them eat better than I do and get nothing but the best of care when they go to the vets for whatever reason. They are never put on "display" nor do I charge a fee for people to come out and see my zoo.

Would I buy a panther as a pet? No! Do I think the people that mutilate these animals by means of de-clawing and removing their canine teeth as a means of making them 'safe" should be hung by their ears? Yes! To me there is a huge difference between a yellow-footed tortoise lumbering around the house sniffing a persons foot than having a animal in the house that could easily rip off my face or a limb. Does this make me a total hypocrite? You be the judge.

Where I'm lost with this post is the comparsion of wild life to pitbulls or any other bully breed.

I personally don't buy into all the media hype over dog breeds. Can a pitbull hurt a person? Yes they most certainly can, and do, but if you look at the percentage of people that actually own them and whether they actually understand the breed or not this is where the problems start.

I have a German Shepard that is said to be a mean or "taboo" breed of dog to own. The fact that she wouldn't go out of her way to harm a fly is ignored simply because she's a German Shepard. My terrier is more apt to bother a person than she is as her first owner beat the crap out of in an attempt to make her a protection dog. What the jerk failed to understand was that her personality is not "protection dog" quality, forget about how he was going about her training. Seeing a professional dog trainer was simply out of the question as he wasn't bring in enough drug money at that time.( I can say that for sure as he was a drug dealer and was busted not only for animal abuse but also selling drugs on the street.) She is shy and peaceful. Will she bark if somebody knocks on the door? Yes Would she react if somebody was coming at me in a threatening manner? I honestly don't know and would prefer not to find out. Not because I'm worried about owning a "bad" dog breed,rather because I don't feel like being threatened in my own house. Her second and third owners also abused and neglected her as well, but those were for other unacceptable reasons. Starvation would be one of the few...

Pitbulls along with any other bully breed ( i.e bull terriers and bulldogs) need to have owners that are willing to lay down the law from the day the dog enters the home to the day the dog dies. There is no middle ground with these breeds. You're either going to work around the clock to ensure these breeds are going to mind their manners or not. All the pitbull stories you hear about are cases where the owners made their dogs nasty by encouraging the fighting trait on purpose or were too arrogent to do the right thing by their pet in the first place.

Doberman Pinchers are another breed that has many neurotic tendencies if the dog is not given enough exercise and handled with a firm hand when it is needed. I used to pet sit for a woman that had 5 of them. One of her two males was not neutered and was a jerk. Trying to get into her house without understanding dogs would have gotten me seriously injured as she had no control over her animals as she felt it wasn't necessary. The fact that both her male dogs were almost 100 pounds each, they were a threat not only to her if a fight broke out, but to anyone else as well.

Now just because a Maltese cannot maul a person like a Pitbull does not mean they won't use their teeth and cough up an attitude with people. I find little dogs more threatening than large ones because more often then not, these little darlings are treated like small children and are never taught manners. People think it's cute when their pint sized pets growl and bare their teeth at people. Just as they think it's cute when these animals jump all over people and demand attention as after all, they are small dogs as if that somehow makes a difference.

It goes back to that humanizing thing I mentioned a few posts ago. People are quick to humanize a small breed than a larger one just because they are small and cute. Meh! They're still dogs whether they have bows in the fur with painted nails are not. 5 pounds, 140 pounds, a dog is a dog regardless of what size it comes in. People can love them and spoil them rotten but the fact of the matter is they all need training, disipline and boundries. Some just need to reminded of such things more than others. Bully breeds just happen to fall into the frequent reminder catagory.

Dogs have been living with people for many, many years, panthers have not nor are they meant to. I love all kinds of animals, but I accept the fact the the families of chipmunks and squirrels that I've created a safe haven for are not meant to be kept in the house as pets. I'll feed them, provide shelter and place dishes of water outside in random places during the summer to keep them from dehydrating, but I'll never try to tame them or otherwise because they're wild animals that should be appreciated from a distance.

Stacy January 25th, 2007 01:52:00 PM

I agree that people should be prevented from keeping big cats as pets (and for the same reasons, wolves or part wolves, bears, etc.). I also, to some extent, agree with pit bull bans. Most people would assume this makes me prejudiced against bully breeds, but this is not the case at all. In my mind, there are two types of people who get pit bulls: those who are doing it to have them as a status symbol and those who rescue them from the first type of people (reputable breeders of show quality animals don't count as those are not 'pit bulls'). In that way, they're a lot like wild animals kept as pets. I live close to a major metropolitan area where pit bulls are allowed. As such, there is a big problem with dogfighting. I'd rather the animals didn't exist then to have them exposed to that. I certainly don't approve of a nationwide (or even state-wide) ban on pit-bulls. But in the case of metropolitan areas...with many people living in close proximity...and rampant drug and gang problems...yes, I approve of a pit bull ban.

That being said, I'm wondering how far down on the "wild" tree the author's disapproval runs. My pet ferret is still illegal in Hawaii, California and the city of New York (though I fail to see why). Are ferrets on the okay list? What about bunnies? Or hedghogs? Sugar Gliders? Etc.?

Becky January 25th, 2007 02:21:00 PM

I could not agree more. Undomesticated wild animals are not pets and it should be illegal to have them without a shelter/rehabilitation/sanctuary license. Like Becky, I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn (I've had ferrets and rats and hamsters along with the usual cats, dogs and horses), but it needs to be drawn somewhere. And while we're wishing for the impossible, how about a worldwide mandatory spay and neuter law? Breeders can apply for a very expensive license. There are no "bad breeds" but there are certainly bad breeders and htey are working very hard to create "bad breeds".

Dawn January 25th, 2007 03:25:00 PM

The thing about breed banning is that it doesn't teach anybody anything. All it does is encourage those bad owners to keep buying them for whatever purpose because the goverment is telling them they can't have one.

That is just as bad as the owners that buy these breeds without having a clue in my opinion.

Would education solve all bully breed issues? I wish I could say yes, but reality tells a different story. There are always going to be bad dog owners. Unless dog owners both present and future are forced to take a test of some sort to see if they could responsibly handle owning a dog ( regardless of breed) there is always going to be arguements about how to raise a dog, what is considered proper training, spaying & neutering, ect.

Ferret bans I've never understood. Ferrets can be just as easily spayed and neutered like a dog or cat and are required to have a yearly rabies vaccine and have a canine distemper booster every year... atleast in MA they are anyway. Ferret vaccination is one of those topics that has always had some heated debate surrounding it, but what doesn't in the world of pets? Somebody is always going to scream and carry on about something.

I've owned 5 ferrets ( not all at once) and I never had a problem with them except for being allergic and their tendency to be biters. The biting habit can be broken with some work and their smell is controlled with a weekly bath. Now if people were keeping mink, weasels or skunks, that would be a different story even though they all come from the same family.

Mink alone are really, really nasty. It's not a animal I'd like to keep in my house even if they were legal.

I don't know. There is never going to be easy answers to any of this stuff, but simply doing away with a breed or breeds is not a solution as all dogs have teeth, strong necks and the ability to bite. Putting muzzles on every dog isn't a solution either as again, it doesn't teach the owner or the dog anything. It's a fast fix, but not a lasting one.

Stacy January 25th, 2007 06:13:00 PM

There are quite a few homes that house skunks (Florida is a large safe skunk haven) and even raccoons. If these animals are properly cared for- what's the point of condemning those owners? Oh, right- because the vicious skunk is going to escape and attack the neighborhood's innocent children.

I think banning 'wild animals' is a bit silly- because there is a difference between a 250 pound mountain lion and an 18 pound coon or a 8 ounce sugar glider. All of our domestics were at one point in time- NONdomestic. Where do you draw the line?

If people are caring for the animals appropriately and they are not dangerous to you and yours- I don't see why you should be offended/and/or care. HOWEVER, just like pitbulls- exotic owners are only in the news when something goes WRONG.

Katalyst January 25th, 2007 06:34:00 PM

Ferrets, at least the ones you get the pet store, are *domestic*. They have been kept by humans as pets since medieval times. While they are more exotic than a dog or a cat, they are not wild caught and brought into people's homes.

Georg January 25th, 2007 06:43:00 PM

Actually, a lot of the smaller 'exotics' are not wild-caught- they are raised as babies from captive-born and raised parents. Ferrets are not the only 'small' exotics with that type of heritage. The interesting thing here is- a lot of the exotics have just RECENTLY started having compatible food available on the market for them to eat. Ferrets- 10 years ago, you'd only find cat food to feed them. Suggies- 10 years ago, you'd feed cat food as well. Nowadays, like I stated before, Sugarglider owners who are educated spend a lot of time and money creating BML or other such substitutes to ensure their Sugargliders receive the appropriate nutrition.

Katalyst January 25th, 2007 07:41:00 PM

Haha- guess I was just thinking it- I didn't state it. Sugargliders just recently have been receiving proper nutrition while being 'captive'- that's why a few years ago, Suggies were considered to have a very short captive lifespan. Now, they are living longer and longer- because their owners are making the effort to replicate food that is appropriate for them.

Instead of banning exotic ownership, once again, permits and education is your BEST answer. Banning exotic ownership only harms the good owners- the bad owners won't care because they already are poor owners- what would a ban hurt?

Katalyst January 25th, 2007 07:44:00 PM

If you want to see a wild animal go to the zoo people!! For goodness sake... let me take you, a domesticated BEAST and put you into the wild... the opposite of what you should be... If it's wild it belongs in the wild! We humans just can't help but SCREW things up by trying to domesticate a wild animal... LEAVE EM ALONE! If you think you need to help them and that is your way by putting them in a CAGE and breaking their spirt, try donating to a wildlife rehab center or something like that. YOU are not God and you do not deserve to try and "tame", keep or anything else that mother nature intended on being wild. It doesn't matter if it's a panther or a skunk... what gives you the right to as you call it ...CARE for them? My only wish is for every stupid human that causes a WILD by nature animal to be killed. Is that they (the human idiots) be "put down" as well. And once again why are Pits banned??? Because of stupid humans making them killers! What idiots we all are to think that this is o.k. OH and just for the record.... I'm not with PETA. I'm just sick and tired of seeing the innocent animals (even if they ripped a baby to shreds they are still the innocent party here) being killed and the "handlers" going on to try again. geeez!

Shelly January 26th, 2007 08:53:00 AM

This post is provoking some interesting remarks.

Humans created Pit Bulls and other breeds to fill a specific need or job. Even a breed such as the Dachund was meant to be a hunter or a "fighter" only they were bred to hunt and fight badgers, hence the nickname Badger Dog. The smaller sized weiner dogs were bred to hunt smaller animals such as weasels and such. Should Pit Bulls continue to be allowed to fight? Of course not, but until it's beaten into peoples brains how to live with these breeds peacefully, the media is going to continue to have a field day with them and how bad and terrifying they are.

I find the whole thing ironic. People created these breeds by mixing certain breeds with others, and now they want to do away with them as "monster dogs" were the end result. It's kind of like killer bees. No offense to anyone that is French, but that is were they were killer bees came from. They crossed a honey bee with a wasp ( ?) and now people want to kill them off because they are aggressive. Apparently nobody took a whole ten seconds to consider about how a wasp acts in general, nevermind what would happen by combining the attitude of a wasp with a insect the size of a honey bee.

As for taking in my "wild" pets, I don't have any regrets. The people that I purchased Zelda from refused to treat her severe pnemonia as they were convinced that all tortoises normally had a runny nose and blew bubbles from their nostrils when they tried to breathe. The only charming quality about those people was the simple fact that they actually knew the difference between a turtle and a tortoise. Zelda would have been dead long ago if I hadn't taken her and had her treated under the guidence of anawesome reptile vet.

Mozart was also in a sorry state as he was loaded with intestinal parasites. He may not have died as soon a Zelda, but he would have eventually from malnutrition.

Oscar would have been fine with the bird breeder that rescued him from his first owners. They didn't like the fact that he didn't talk, so he became a disposable pet that had no place in this world except for a circus according to them, so they went out and bought an African Grey congo. I'm almost willing to bet that one was threatened to a life with the circus as well as African Grey's are not exactly a pet bird that is easy to keep stress free unless a new owner knows what they are doing.

The fact that Oscar is wild caught has nothing to do with me personally. I did not go to the Amazon to net birds or steal their eggs, and I'm not certainly not going to return him back to his former home as that enviroment which is hardly ideal with all the goings on in that part of the world were they don't believe in conservation of anything. I'm also not going to drop him off at a zoo where they can claim "conservation" of the species either.

I'm not breeding him or using him as some other form of financial gain or to show, so he's fine right where he is. He's well taken care of and I have a list of exotic vets to call on should I run into problems him later in life. His biggest stress living here is having a physical, and having his wings, beak and nails clipped. He doesn't even have to endure the stress of a car ride as my vet does a housecall for all my birds.

My chinchilla was domestically bred, but not to be kept as a pet. The guy I bought him from makes his living from chinchilla fur. Is he as a person a bad guy? No. Do I agree with what he does? No, but I'm not going to PETA to tell on him either. The leather coat and the Nikes I'm so fond of are also made of leather. It would seem kind of dumb to make noise about animal abuse when I wear things that are created from cow hydes. But that's a whole other issue...

Stacy January 26th, 2007 11:14:00 AM

Once again, I stand by the point that domestic animals are domestic because of their time spent with humans. They aren't 'special' in any way, shape or form- except it's been claimed by some that they are 'dumbed down' versions of their wilder cousins (that's a scarey thought considering how smart some domestic dogs are!). Therefore, if you are 100% against owning exotics, without any exception, then you should really rethink your relationship with your domestics- at one point, they were exotic too.

Once again, education and enforcing proper care for ALL ANIMALS- domestic or exotic- is the path this world needs to be on. Bans will only harm the good owners and won't put a dent in the bad owners.

Katalyst January 26th, 2007 11:59:00 AM

Definitely a controversial subject! I agree with quite a few of the points made above, especially as regards education. The difficult thing is that so many people ignore what they are taught/told because "they want it." Regardless of it's suitability as a pet, or it's status i.r.o. wild populations.

While I personally do not enjoy zoos, they have a very important role to play in terms of both education and custody of a gene pool. Circuses and pet shops selling exotics have no place at all in any civilised world.

Maybe in a lot of individual cases, the care and nutrition provided is better than the previous keepers provided. The fact remains though that by buying that animal or reptile, you are increasing the trade in both captive-bred and wild-caught species. Without demand where would be no supply. And Stacy, with apologies, tortoises are VERY social animals - seeing them interact with their own species is remarkable. Two tortoises of different breeds will not enjoy the same level of interaction.

I think possible the dividing line on domestic versus non-domestic animals is the 'willingness' to cohabit with man. In cats and dogs, this is generally very evident. In South Africa we have many people living in extreme poverty, and consequently not able to afford top quality treatment of food for their dogs. Yet the number of dogs one sees in squatter camps who are very obviously loved and happy is high.

As a volunteer in the wildlife rehab field, our biggest problems are with suricates ('meerkats'), tortoises, owls and monkeys. Not one of those species can ever be considered to be 'happy' in a human home.

Our slogan is 'no rehabilitation without education', and sadly enough this happens slowly. If you look back though, keeping of human slaves used to be regardeded as both ethical, and 'much better for the slave" than his birthplace home would have been. One can only hope that the education of people i.r.o. exotic pets takes less time than the emancipation of slaves

jcat January 26th, 2007 12:48:00 PM

<i>The panther took a little trip to the crematorium. </i>

Oh my, that's so sad! The handler fails in his or her duties, so the threatened species is killed. :( I think the handler should face charges of criminal negligence, assault, and attempted homicide.

zandperl January 29th, 2007 11:37:00 PM

Sorry to be late checking in on this, but here goes...

You ask: "How can anyone equate keeping any domesticated animal with a wild one?"

Dr. Khuly, you need look no further than Purdue University's School of Veterinary Medicine. The person to ask is Dr. Alan Beck, Director of Purdue University's Center for the Human-Animal Bond. He is most infamously quoted by radio personality Steve Dale in an article which appeared in his blog at:
http://www.goodnewsforpets.com/petworld/archive/pi...

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"Pit bulls are different; they're like wild animals," says Alan Beck, director for the Center for the Human Animal Bond at Purdue University School of Veterinary Medicine, West Lafayette, IN. "They're not suited for an urban environment. I believe we should open our eyes and take a realistic approach to pit bulls."
------

Yes, read it and weep. I have personally spoken with him about his statement, and he intimated that he examined the number of American Staffordshire Terrier registrations with the AKC and compared them to the total number of registrations to extrapolate a theoretical percentage of pit bulls in the general dog population, then compared that number to the percentage of "pit bulls" responsible for human fatalities according to the CDC's so-called study on Dog Bite Fatalities by breed (which was not conducted scientifically at all!), and decided that a.) "pit bulls" are relatively rare among the canine population and b.) are substantially overrepresented in dog bite-related human fatalities. Conclusion: "Something must be going on here."

Based upon this, Dr. Beck has taken a position which has made him quite the celebrity among dog-hating legislators and attorneys (especially prosecutors), and he is regularly called upon as an expert witness to support breed bans and restrictions such as special licensing and automatic declarations of all "pit bulls" as dangerous or vicious, regardless of individual temperament.

So much for the human-animal bond.

What Dr. Beck seems not to have done is to strolled through an urban municipal shelter and calculated the percentage of the population comprised of pit bulls and pit bull types. What he fails to recognize is that the majority of purebred, registered "pit bulls" (American Pit Bull Terriers) are NOT registered with the AKC - the primary registering organizations are the American Dog Breeders Association and the United Kennel Club, and that the vast majority are probably not registered at all. He fails to recognize that the AKC is not an inclusive registry, and extrapolating percentages to compare to the total dog population will not work because of the huge population of "designer" mutts - the whatever-poos and other messes - as well as the rarer breeds not recognized, such as the Presa Canario and Argentine Dogo, not to mention the randomly-bred "oops" dogs. And he fails to address the CDC's own conclusion of the study (really a newspaper survey conducted by the HSUS - entirely another issue!), which was that there are too few fatalities attributed to ANY breed to draw rational conclusions about the relative risks of an entire breed population. And he fails to recognize that the fearsome reputation propagated by the media and "experts" like himself have caused the pit bull type to be the breed of choice for every thug who wants a bad-a** dog.

Thank you, Dr. Beck.

As a professional dog trainer, it amazes me that the director of the school which is the crucible for the next generation of cutting-edge veterinary "behaviorists" would engender such rubbish. Scary.

Tracy D July 14th, 2007 12:19:00 PM

Tracy: Thank you for alerting me to this. I'll be checking in on this guy and his research--or lack thereof, as the case may be. Thank you!

Dr. Patty Khuly July 15th, 2007 10:53:00 AM

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