Vet School 101 Dog fights: inter-dog violence wreaks havoc in otherwise loving homes

February 28th, 2007  

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Out of sheer curiousity, what is the difference between a veterinary behaviorist and a dog trainer?

A dog trainers job essentially is to train humans how human how to train, handle, cope or otherwise get a handle on their dog. So what does a veterinary behaviorist do?

Stacy February 28th, 2007 03:56:00 PM

Sorry for the screw up on the last sentence. I was debating with my son about his homework and trying to post at the same time. Apparently I don't carry the multi-tasking gene... Meh

Stacy February 28th, 2007 04:01:00 PM

The very few tussles we have had are boken by my yelling. I have gotten between the dogs when I can, because they don't want to hurt *me*.

For the most part, for us, it's "escape route management." Never let anyone be cornered.

georg February 28th, 2007 04:33:00 PM

From what I've heard house cats don't usually physically injure each other unlike dogs. Why is that?

Birds unfortunately do, I've heard of them ... removing the offending toe if another bird lands on their cage. It seems that interspecies violence is more common in birds though - it'd be like a dog hurting a cat - not same-species. And then bird neuroticisms, such as plucking one's mate, are a whole 'nother story.

zandperl February 28th, 2007 05:12:00 PM

Working in the home or in rescue, the best solution is training and supervison. Naturally these are the two most simplistic, yet difficult things for most people. Nearly any fight can be prevented if you just keep an eye on them and know what each dog considers to be 'high-value' or a challenge, depending on what the fight trigger is. Then kick in the training and 'no' or 'leave-it' the moment they give each other "the look", and nearly any fight can be prevented before it gets beyond snappy-growly. If you're not paying attention and it does get serious, a folding or plastic chair shoved between them works well. Because yeah, you're not going to pull apart two GSDs who want to eat each other, you'll just wind up with an emergency visit yourself.

If all else fails, rotate time and never allow them access to one another.

lindabcs February 28th, 2007 05:21:00 PM

At one year old, a Great Dane is still a puppy- I'm glad the parents are willing to work with both of their dogs to find a solution that works for them.

That being said, I've also seen an adult Great Dane lunge and bite my own puppy in his face- the Dane was sick and not feeling well and he decided to take it out on my pup. We cleaned up the wounds, thought everything was alright- and ended up going into the vet first thing in the morning cuz my pup spiked an extremely high fever and was deathly ill.

Dog fights in my own pack, however, I wouldn't even call 'fights'; I would call them squabbles and I allow them to work things out themselves. They always do- and without any bloodshed (unless an ear gets nicked- goodness gracious, ears are horrible!).

Katalyst February 28th, 2007 06:29:00 PM

The worst interdog fighting that I have had to deal with has usually been littermates that have been homed together.

One particular case comes to mind where two mature adult male dogs , littermates and of pretty much equal size and weight would have fights which were sudden , ferocious and always resulted in injuries. From the basic punctures through lacerations requiring suturing to in the worst fight injuries were so bad we had to do reconstructive surgery to put the eyelids back together, amazingly the eye itself was intact.

In this scenario treatments can be difficult.Littermates are invariably similar and well matched with neither being able to exert a dominance over the other. Castration has to be used with caution as it must only be one dog that is done and it must be the right one, otherwise the problem worsens.
The owners in this case are manfully battling on trying everything they have been advised to try to resolve the conflicts, sadly in a lot of cases splitting the dogs up is the only way to solve the problem.

What fascinates me in this particular case is that between fights the dogs are best of mates, sleeping in contact with one another, eating from adjacent bowls and astonishingly licking each others wounds better having just inflicted them !!

Maybe we just have to accept that brothers of all species fight and just keep our fingers crossed that they don't half kill themselves in the process !

jackholly February 28th, 2007 08:35:00 PM

Stacy--I'm so glad you asked! A vet behaviorist is a veterinarian who has also done a three year residency (usually after a one year internship) with an acredited teaching hospital and who has passed a board examination for that area of specialization. These individuals meet a very high bar in terms of education and ability. They area analagous, if you will, to a human psychiatrist--an actual doc who can prescribe meds and recommend specific behavioral therapies. They don't actually do any of the training the pets might need but they usually have a staff of trainers or behavioral techs who serve as trainers.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 2nd, 2007 08:05:00 AM

I have two Danes. I've seen a few fights. Nothing too serious, mostly noise if anything (although that's nerve-wracking in and of itself!) I've always been able to identify what started the tiff, thank god (this is how I know not to worry about their relationship.)

They ultimately get along fabulously, but they are dogs and sometimes need to work things out on their own. My Zoey gets pissed if she gets stepped on while she is laying down (Diesel doesn't watch where he is walking ,even though they are both giant and visible to each other at all times), and instead of politely growling, she overreacts and starts attacking and then Diesel defends himself. Of course, like I said, mostly noise (and in reality, this has only happened a handful of times since Zoey normally sleeps on the couch and not on the floor, so not something I really worry about too much.)

Diesel doesn't want anyone (well any dog, since I'm able to touch and do whatever I want to his food) near his food, so will guard and defend it like no other. But I feed them on opposite ends of the room and on a schedule, so we really have no problems with that either. Unless Diesel decides he's not hungry and just wants to stare at it for 20 minutes (I feed raw, so don't leave it out longer than that.) But Zoey has now learned the exact amount of space Diesel needs, and she stands and waits patiently at that distance until he is finished and then goes in an cleans up his mess (yes she's a hog.)

There was one fight that was actually my fault though. I was playing with Diesel with a highly prized toy (I think it was a giggly wiggly) and threw it a little too far across the room and Zoey was nearby. Well Diesel was running towards it and Zoey snatched it and boy was he pissed! I think the only damage was some ripped out fur, but still it was crazy!

Good post!

Great Dane Addict March 2nd, 2007 10:59:00 AM

Thanks for explaining the difference between the two. It sounds like an interesting field to get into.

We don't have any veterinary behavorist around here that I'm aware of. If a dog is displaying aggression or some other worrisome behavior, they are sent to a dog trainer to have the problem corrected. Unfortunately, many of our local trainers have had to become "experts" at dealing with aggression in dogs as it's becoming a real problem. Not just with your typical fighting breeds, but with most breeds in general.

Stacy March 3rd, 2007 12:27:00 PM

where i get especially frustrated is when i see people setting themselves up for disaster and they completely dismiss everything i say (i'm a tech). i see this most often with people bringing home bully breeds- multiple intact pit bull bitches in the same house, a pit bull with a toy breed dog- and the people absolutely refuse to acknowledge that there could be a problem and will not separate the dogs when left alone.

we had somebody looking to euth their pit bull recently because it killed their small breed dog while they were away. we weren't their regular vet and refused to do it.

i have two pit bulls. they are fantastic dogs and i have no illusions about them whatsoever. i've never had a serious fight with them, but i do a lot to head off any problems. they're separated when i'm gone, they're both obedience trained, and i call off rough play when it starts to get out of hand. i know that loving them isn't going to make them unagressive. i know that being careful and vigilant is what is going to be the key to keeping everybody safe.

elegy March 4th, 2007 10:49:00 AM

I was greatful for all the info.. I have a st. bernard and a beagle mix.. grew up together.. neither one neutered.. and the saint is about 1 and a half and he wants to be the big shot.. the beagle who is almost 2 tries to ignore him or walk away and he persists.. only one bad fight but I feel on constant guard.. by one bad fight i mean where they actually bit eachother no blood.. it is the worst feeling.. the beagle is a bit of a worry wart anyway.. very vocal. and i think the saint misinterprets his growl.. i don't know.. but am about at the end of my rope..

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