Vet P.O.V. Iams and Nutro have to suck it up—among others…

March 19th, 2007  

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It's a lot more than 10, I'll tell you that. We've opened an information center and database collection site at our site, PetConnection.com. We'll be reporting all day and beyond, with new information.

Gina March 19th, 2007 09:39:00 AM

And by the way, "raw" is not the only other option. Check out Christie's piece for the SF Chronicle's Web site:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2...

Gina March 19th, 2007 09:41:00 AM

You should check out Dogster...it's a whole lot more than 10 animals affected. I've pointed them to PetConnection.com, so hopefully a lot of their stories will be in the database.

I totally agree with you about by-products. I don't think they're evil, if, as you said, "it's fresh and clean and comes from a good-practices farm environment." The problem with by-products in kibble is that you don't know the ratio of such things in there. Organ meats are definitely healthy, as well as things like feet, tripe, etc. But if that kibble's "chicken by-products" is the first ingredient and all of those by-products are chicken feet, that's much more chicken feet than necessary, and they're missing out on a lot of essential nutrients that are found in muscle meat. If the kibbles actually stated which by-products they were using (I know they don't always know, though), I'd be a lot more comfortable with it.

I think the answer for you is to read up on homecooked diets. You're already doing it, right? It shouldn't take much more effort to make sure you're including everything you need to in that diet (if I remember correctly, I think you'll need a calcium supplement at least). Then you will be able to control the quality of everything you feed your dogs much more easily.

Good luck with all of the patients I'm sure you'll be seeing this week. And be sure to keep an eye on this FDA page, which links to all of the current recalls:

http://www.fda.gov/oc/opacom/hottopics/petfood.htm...

Janine March 19th, 2007 10:01:00 AM

Iams and Nutro aren't the only supposedly "respectable" brands (although I haven't considered Iams respectable since they were bought by P&G). The big shocker for me was when Hill's announced that some of their Science Diet Savory Cuts foods were being withdrawn. Apparently they are "co-produced" with Menu Foods. This really ticks me off because I've spoken with at least two different Hill's sales reps in the past who assured me that one of the things that sets Hill's foods apart is that they don't outsource any of the manufacturing process to companies like Menu.

A lot of veterinarians on VIN (Veterinary Information Network; sorry, non-veterinarians, VIN is paid subscription only, so you won't be able to browse on over and get in on the fun) are seriously pissed off about these supposedly respectable pet foods being implicated in the recall. A lot of trust has been erroded (which, frankly, is probably a good thing). A good part of it has to do with the fact that all of these pet food companies allowed veterinarians to find out about the recall at the same time everyone else did. One might think they'd be contacting veterinarians before the recall goes public, giving them a heads up, alerting them about what to watch for. I think it speaks volumes about how important the veterinary community really is to them. Certainly has me reconsidering whether I'll continue to stock nonprescription Science Diet.

catmanager March 19th, 2007 10:18:00 AM

Funny you should mention Fast Food Nation. My wife and I watched it yesterday too. Her response was: If you think the production process for human-grade meat products is disgusting, you should see pet-food production.

catmanager March 19th, 2007 10:23:00 AM

Catmanager catches my sentiments. I'm particularly ticked off at Hills. When the vet recommended that we put the cat on a wet diet to prevent another bout of cystitis, and suggested that they have had better results with Science Diet brands, we followed her advise and shelled out more for Hills. Now I see that Kitty's favorite Savory Cuts are made alongside "Save-A-Lot" store brand...maybe from the same vat! Hills has heard from me...but will they listen?

rev_bill March 19th, 2007 11:16:00 AM

Dr.Patty...do you have any say as a vet in any of this? I mean to the companies themselves?

You of course can stop buying product as a silent message, but I was wondering if vets chimed in their input in cases like this?

Stacy March 19th, 2007 11:52:00 AM

Luckily my dogs weren't on any of the recalled dog foods. But after the Hills recall about a year and half ago and now this recent recall, I will no longer feed my two dogs manufatured food. I researched homemade dog food on the internet over the weekend and now am cooking their food with grains, veggies and fruits from the health food store and meats that are approved for human consumption. I just don't have any faith in these pet food companies anymore.
Peace-
Linda (Isabella's Human)

Isabella March 19th, 2007 12:09:00 PM

I am the one who provoked Dr. Patty's "testiness" in the recent entry about pet food. I in no way meant to attack her for her comments about Purina, nor did I believe she was promoting Purina. My problem is with the large pet food companies claims about all the research done on pet nutrition. These claims lead the public to believe that the companies are selling a good quality product full of ingredients that are safe and healthy for our pets. I used Purina food to point out all the cheap fillers and questionable meat products included. Gluten has no place in our pet's food anyway, especially obtained from a less-than-reputable supplier.

I hope this large recall of pet food will cause people to question what is really in that bag of "complete and balanced" food they feed to their pet. Take some time to read labels, research ingredients, and decide for yourself if that is what you want you pet to eat. There are many choices of kibble out there, plus home-cooked diets, raw diets, or any combination of these. There is no one, best way to feed every pet, so take some time to experiment and see what works for your pet. Aren't they worth it?

Thanks to Gina for posting the link to Christie Keith's wonderful article on Real Food for Dogs.

Susan March 19th, 2007 12:57:00 PM

The cats, including the special needs Sassy Fat Cat, get a breakfast of Nutro from the pouch. This was picked because it's a good brand I thought I could trust and the little bit of wheat gluten in the gravy doesn't set off her grain allergies. I feel very lucky that only one packet of the 98 packets I just bought in bulk the week before fell within the date range, and yet I'm concerned about feeding any of the rest. I can barely afford good meat for the humans, and cannot afford to go back to BARF, but I will look at the cooked food recipes.

The problem is grains are currently very cheap. Good vegetables aren't. Good meat isn't. I really just don't know what to do any more. The captcha word is "arestd" which I find very appropriate, but I don't think anyone will be from all of this.

Georg March 19th, 2007 01:16:00 PM

We go to an alternative vet of sorts who has suggested that if we don't do raw food or homemade food (or frozen mail order mice! yikes!) that PetGuard is a really good brand of food. Our vet doesn't sell it, so she has no reason to try to get us to buy it. We have also read this in holistic animal magazines. Our cats like it. I was happy that we use it given this terrible situation with Menu foods.

Elizabeth March 19th, 2007 01:47:00 PM

OK, has anyone else noticed that Eukanuba and Iams aren't on the official list? I'm not a big fan of either, but I am a fan of accurate information. P&G (the parent company of both) voluntarily decided to do a recall. At least they are being proactive even if they have their food manufactured at an iffy facility.

Iams and Eukanuba wer once upon a time decent enough dog food -- before it was sold to P&G. They changed their formulation and/or ingredient sources at that time.

Deanna March 19th, 2007 03:16:00 PM

The official list had a referral to the Iams website where you could see the list of Iams recalled food. I read it.

Pedigree is NOT involved. I feed my dogs Pedigree.

Georg March 19th, 2007 03:43:00 PM

Let me clarify that- dry dog food is Iams, as I mentioned before... but for dog dinner where we give the dogs medication is Pedigree canned.

Georg March 19th, 2007 03:45:00 PM

For a true eye opener about how pet foods are made and how to descipher lables check out "Food pets die for" By Ann Martin. I don't agree with everything she says but the label and processing info is enlightening to say the least. NOT for the weak of stomach. It changed how I feed forever.

Marie March 19th, 2007 05:01:00 PM

There are other options aside from species specific prey based diets. Cooking is always an option. Dr. Pitcairn's book "Dr. Pitcairn's New Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats" is a wonderful way to start and I've raised two of my dogs on the puppy diets. I simply eliminated the grains (sorry, I won't agree that dogs need grains).

People need to take back the responsibility for their own health and their pets health.

Nancy Campbell RVT March 19th, 2007 07:03:00 PM

Well said, Nancy.

Janine March 19th, 2007 07:55:00 PM

I had heard about the pet food recall. It doubly makes me wish that Roxie was strong enough, gastronomically speaking, to eat BARF or homecooked or really, anything that I can give her myself where I can *know* where the food came from and how it was made/processed.

Recently I tried to add a handful or so of Ultra Premium for Puppies to her regular food in the hopes that it would help her coat. Alas, even that was too rich for her system.

We've been dealing with loose stools and occasional vomiting for two days. Today, she's back on the Nutro Natural Choice (dry!) and mushed pumpkin diet, which is the only thing that seems to work for my dog.

I hope eventually she'll be able to eat something that's not mass-produced. Until then, it's kibble and mushed pumpkin!


Whitewater

Whitewater March 19th, 2007 11:37:00 PM

Georg, the reference to Iams might be on the official site now (I'll take your word for it), but it was added after the initial list put out by Menu Foods. The fact remains that they are doing a proactive, voluntary recall. A good idea on their part since their foods are manufactured at the same facility. That doesn't change the quality (or lack thereof) of their food, but I do like my facts straight up, not distorted.

:-)

Deanna March 20th, 2007 08:05:00 AM

Hey Dr. Patty:

I just came across this blog post:

http://www.itchmo.com/read/menu-foods-exclusive-co...

Apparently Menu Foods may be making wet food for Iams through 2013 (unless they break off the deal, which may happen after this). I just wanted to let you know, because I think this reinforces your decision to stop feeding Iams. If it's the same stuff as the grocery brands, just more money, what's the point?

Janine March 20th, 2007 09:48:00 AM

I have a question for all of you about this subject- our most recent foster mastiff was in a county shelter from mid-January through March 1st, when we got him out. During that time, he was fed whatever dry kibble was donated, topped with whatever canned they had on hand. Obviously, it was too long ago for the shelter to still have the empty cans or packets available to check the manuafacturing dates and codes. They responded to my inquiry with the statement that yes, they did use some or all of those brands, but had no info on whether or not they may have been the ones cited in the recall, and have no way of checking. So, the foster has been here just short of three weeks, and so far has shown no sign of illness, (other than worms, which I have treated for) and being very underweight. Now for the question- does he need to be tested; and if yes, what specifically do I have him tested for? Is there any specific test that can be done to see if he may have been effected, and if so, is there any treatment available to reverse any possible effects?

Margaret March 20th, 2007 10:58:00 AM

I'm doing three tests for all my non-sick patients who have been on these foods or who may have been: a BUN, Creatinine and a urine specific gravity. If they've definitely been on the foods I'm doing follow-ups in a week. We'll see what more info comes out and I'll tailor my recommendations to these. BTW, this is the current consesus among a bunch of vets on VIN (an online group of about 7,000 vets). Although largely anecdotal, this site offers a lot of info on basic issues that make their way down the pike in our business. Vets in the know should check this site daily but our attentions are so divided with so many sources of info this one often goes by the wayside.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 20th, 2007 12:42:00 PM

Margaret: Yes, we can treat some: with fluids and/or dialysis. Most don't make it. Some do. It depends on how early we get to them and how much food they've gotten and what their genetic and general health status is. In other words, we often don't know who will make it or not.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 20th, 2007 12:49:00 PM

"After all, they don’t often get the benefit of the oversight our human foods do."

If only. Unfortunately, not only have our pets been left behind without benefit of proper industrial management, but the FDA and USDA have had constant cuts in their budgets. Oh, and they often can't decide who should be the overseer of a given food item.

Legally, the food companies are not responsible for to tell you "everything" that is used in the food or in food processing for human or animal foods, or for pharmaceuticals. If you do a search on "codex" you will find a list of all the things that can be added. For instance, citric acid washes are done to nearly all meats sold in the USA. This can trigger allergies in some sensitive humans and animals.

The lobbying of Monsanto and ADM and their stated claims to wanting to control the food supply can be directly blamed for this. Whoever the gluten manufacturer was, they can be traced back to one of the big food giants (ADM and Monsanto) that are responsible for feeding almost everything/everyone. They have lobbied to make certain you do not know what is in your food or in your animals' food.

We have slowly drifted back to the time of The Jungle - personally, I had hoped it wouldn't get this far.

Pax,

MLO

MLO March 20th, 2007 01:38:00 PM

Thanks for the info, Dr. Patty. Off to see our vet and get the not so little guy checked out!

Margaret March 20th, 2007 01:51:00 PM

I do feel AWFUL that people have lost their beloved pets, it makes me sad. As for Menu Foods, the articles I have read said that they have tested the contaminated food back in Feb w/ dogs & cats. Some did not survive the test. I maybe over reacting a bit, BUT IF THEY GOT COMPLAINTS ON CONTAMINATED FOOD...WHY WHY TEST IT ON HEALTHY ANIMALS!??! I think that the company makes more than enough $$$ to figure other ways to test the contaminated food. It is like seeing if a gun is jammed and testing on something/someone first.

I feed my furry friends Dick Van Patten's Natural Balance Food. Yes, it is the same guy from Eight is Enough. IT IS GREAT. My pets love it and they don't use wheat, corn, and soy. It is all natural stuff. I even called & asked where the product is made...CA & UT

Elizabeth March 21st, 2007 03:05:00 PM

i was wondering if i can feed my dog broccoli. and what i should be feeding him. i have the time and am able to cook for him.
thank you, A

aileen bornstein March 21st, 2007 03:51:00 PM

My dogs love broccoli--steamed and roasted with sauces. But they don't like it raw. I still cut it up into little pieces and mix it in sometimes. As with any new food, though, small amounts first.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 21st, 2007 04:44:00 PM

Sorry about failing to answer your other Q. I'm in the market for a full-time home-cooked food, too. I'm checking out Christie Keith's. The URL is posted above under Gina's comment.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 21st, 2007 04:45:00 PM

There is a great group on Yahoo called K9 Nutrition
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/
It is a group that addresses all types of feeding styles - from kibble to home-cooked to raw. The archives are public, so you do not have to join the group to access them.

Susan March 21st, 2007 06:43:00 PM

I also feed my dog pumpkin & can green beans(no salt). She loves it.

Elizabeth March 22nd, 2007 09:16:00 AM

What I can't understand is why it takes episode after episode of this sort of thing for vets to even notice, let alone question their beliefs about feeding animals. I feed raw, although my vet does not know this and probably wouldn't approve, if she did. However, it was a passing comment of hers when one of my dogs was dying of cancer that sent me looking for something outside the commercial dog food world. She does believe in cooked diets. There must be thousands upon thousands of us feeding cooked and raw diets to our animals, slowly convincing our vets by our animals improved health and appearance that we know something. ("Well, yes, I can see that Muffy's hair has grown back, her allergies have disappeared and her weight stabilised, but I really think you should be feeding Science Diet. . ..") The biggest names leading the raw food movement are vets, but the veterinary profession don't want to listen to anything but the publicity and "research" from Big Dog & Cat Food. Why is this?

Margot March 22nd, 2007 11:32:00 AM

They're not the only ones who are going to have to suck it up, I fear. I am less than sympathetic to this belated awkaening among the veterinary community. But for the dead animals and all the publicity, I think most vets would have pushed this garbage produced by the petfood industry for as long as they could profit from it. Few of them have any background in animal nutrition. Most are incapable of even identifying a quality petfood. They have little or no interest in building health, and profit by treating symptoms of illnesses, many of which are caused by vaccines. This terrible situation is a huge and long overdue wakeup call to pet owners. And an expose of not only the petfood industry but their entire marketing chain - including veterinarians. This is only the tip of the iceberg, folks. Consumers: wake up and read! Vets: If you care about helping animals - start studying how to build health through good nutrition instead of sucking up to industry.

DL March 26th, 2007 04:56:00 PM

"There is a great group on Yahoo called K9 Nutrition
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/K9Nutrition/
It is a group that addresses all types of feeding styles - from kibble to home-cooked to raw. The archives are public, so you do not have to join the group to access them."

No, please STAY AWAY from Monica Segal. The diet she devised for my renal dog had nearly three times as much protein and almost three times as much phosphorus as recommended by boarded veterinary nutritionists. She doesn't know what she's doing-please don't hire her services or take her advice. I would be happy to provide "evidence", in the form of a copy of the diet she devised, for those who are skeptical. Take it from one who knows-you will be sorry...

Marti March 29th, 2007 03:14:00 PM

Ailleen are you there
openklasse@hotmail.com

Rudolph December 27th, 2007 08:28:00 AM

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