Vet P.O.V. Vaccines in vet practice: pet safety and basic philosophy

March 2nd, 2007  

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I have had my opinion vary widely with my knowledge and exposure risk. In my ignorance and access to free-to-me vaccine, while we worked at the shelter all of our pets were vaccinated every three months. This group of pets I now steadfastly refuse to vaccinate unless it's absolutely necessary. That was waaaaay too often and not good. But they didn't come down with anything we brought home, so we felt justified at that time.

With the pets added since then, I'm on a three-year schedule. These were not over vaccinated, and the two cats are indoor only animals. The basset is 12 and goes outdoors, so I try to be much more vigilant with his vaccines than the cats. If the vet prods for any of these to get their vaccinations, they will get them.

I did have a friend whose yorkie died from Rabies vaccination. The first one caused a sore that never healed, even after multiple debridements. The second vaccination killed him within a short span. Now she refuses to let her new yorkie be vaccinated at all. But then, all of her kids reacted badly to the MMR vaccine, and she has refused to let her youngest have that at all. She homeschools to avoid the federal regulations.

georg March 2nd, 2007 10:58:00 AM

What do you have to produce for Dade County in order to only vaccinate every three years for rabies without being fined? My Dane had a reaction to a vaccine (atrophy of the hip muscle he was injected in which recovered in about 1 1/2 years) but I don't want to get notices from animal control that my pet isn't up to date on vaccs. with the threat of fines to be levied.

Carla March 2nd, 2007 11:51:00 AM

For NY and rabies, it's first shot, second one year later, and after that it's three years, with proof of prior vaccination.

georg March 2nd, 2007 12:36:00 PM

At our feline-only hospital, we see about one vaccine-related sarcoma per year. All have been cats vaccinated by someone other than us. All but one were vaccinated with a particular brand of vaccine.

You didn't indicate (or I missed) whether you use only nonadjuvanted vaccines. We've been using the Merial Purevax line. We'd vaccinate for rabies every third year if Merial had a three-year nonadjuvanted rabies vaccine. I've heard they're working on it. We love the new needleless leukemia vaccine and hope Merial develops other transdermal vaccines.

catmanager March 2nd, 2007 03:23:00 PM

Thanks for bringing up some of the big issues with vaccinations. Have you read Dr. Ron Schultz's research? He's shown that all of the major brands of viral vaccines more than likely last for the lifetime of an animal (just like in humans). He personally vaccinates his dogs once at about 12-14 weeks of age and then never again (for the viral vaccines not mandated by law: distemper, parvo, adenovirus).

He was a big player in getting the 3 year recommendations out. Vaccines last longer than that, but it's already difficult trying to get some vets to switch from 1 year to 3. So they're taking baby steps.

Dr. Jean Dodds also has done lots of great research in regards to vaccine damage (especially auto-immune diseases).

It's pretty sad that some states have annual rabies vaccine requirements still. Even the three year ones are too often, but once a year is way too excessive. I personally wish that it wasn't mandated by law, or at the very least, that the laws actually reflected what science knows about vaccines. I know that cities are scared that if rabies isn't required often enough, people will stop licensing their dogs. I'm lucky in that my city will accept a rabies vaccine waiver from a vet in lieu of vaccination, but not all cities allow this.

Dr. Schultz and Dr. Dodds are raising money to fund a rabies challenge study to show that the major brands of rabies vaccines actually last much longer than 3 years (they're doing a 5 year and a 7 year study). http://www.rabieschallengefund.com/ has information about it. Of course, once this study is done and the results are in, it will be a long time before cities start adopting it.

If you or anyone else reading is interested, there's a set of two DVDs of a 3 hour long seminar that Dr. Schultz gave to the Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier Club available online. I purchased them and watched the seminar--it was extremely informative and very interesting to watch. It's $20 (including shipping) and all proceeds go to the Rabies Challenge Fund. You can buy it here: http://www.scwtca.org/shop/index.asp#seminardvd

Janine March 2nd, 2007 04:17:00 PM

Thanks for covering this topic. I'm currently having problems with my cat from a vaccine reaction. She's developed a rather nasty looking sore.

Dana March 2nd, 2007 08:34:00 PM

I worry about vaccines, but I live about a block away from a state park, we get wildlife in our yard all the time, and I worry a lot more about my cat slipping out and trying to get territorial with a raccoon. My understanding is that raccoons carry rabies, and a pet who's been injured by one has to be euthanized unless its owner can prove vaccination.

Diane March 2nd, 2007 09:21:00 PM

The animal hospital I work for is a corporate one (can't say which one, of course, but I'm sure you guys can figure it out!); working for these types of practices has some benefits - better pay, established training protocols, etc. Definitely NOT a benefit is the fact that I'm supposed to inform people that their dog, no matter what its environment, needs to have a distemper/parvo combo, corona, giardia, lyme, leptospirosis, and rabies vx every year - no matter what! - and a bordetella vx every 6 months. As for the kitties, if the owner wants to do "what's best for the animal", it includes yearly FVRCP, FIP, FIV, and FeLV vx. It's disgusting, blatant, over-vaccination contrary to research supported by the AVMA, AAFP, etc. Vaccine markups make up such a huge chunk of the hospital's profit margins, however, that I don't see an end to it anytime soon. Some of the higher-ups argue that it's best just to vx annually w/everything b/c if we try to explain to owners the newer guidelines, most would take it as, "Oh - so these shots are good for 3 years? Great, I don't have to worry about Fido's health until 2010!" While it's true that the company's approach gets the animals in at least yearly (which should be happening anyways for general exams), I can't help but feel sick about the whole thing. The only thing I can do is objectively describe each vx, explain the company's vx "philosophy", and encourage owners to do some research - that is, until I can find comparable employment elsewhere!

anna March 3rd, 2007 03:52:00 AM

Just as a random note to Dr. K - I too, saw a poodle named Lola earlier this week. Her owner had awakened to find Lola munching on a bottle of herbal diet pills imported from South America. I spent the morning on the phone with the manufacturer's Miami office...butchering the Spanish language as I attempted to get information on the ingredients!

anna March 3rd, 2007 03:57:00 AM

I'm sorry, Anna. It must really suck to have to deal with that. I know I would hate it.

I wish they would just go ahead and pull the corona vaccine from the market. Every single piece of research I've read on it says that it's--at best--useless. And yet a lot of the time it's still included in the vaccine combos that puppies get.

Janine March 3rd, 2007 05:09:00 AM

Carla: In Miami-Dade county where you and I both live, every vet should have adopted the three year protocol newly admissible by the county (as of January 1st 2006). One catch--it has to be an approved three-year product. I would recommend, in your case, however, that your pet not receive vaccinations for rabies. To satisfy the county fully, however, an antibody titer performed by the University of Kansas (or Kansas State?--not sure right now) is a perfectly legal option. I wish every vet had gone to the three-year protocol but it looks like we're a lone outpost in the Miami area. Call around, perhaps others have taken the plunge. You can always come see me if your vet won't do if--even if just for the rabies issue (I would definitely not want to "steal" you from your vet. (I'm writing a post about that soon.)

Dr. Patty Khuly March 3rd, 2007 11:39:00 AM

catamanager:
I also realize that I had not mentioned titers as an option. (readers: It's more expensive but worth it--it's what I do for my own creatures now.)
Thanks for reminding me about quality quality and quality in vaccines.
Yes, we love the transdermals and always use nonadjuvenated vaccines.
And none of our sarcomas were vaccinated by us, either.
What a coincidence!
(readers take note: If you worry about vaccine safety, learn to ask for what you want. Your vet will surely accommodate.)

Dr. Patty Khuly March 3rd, 2007 11:46:00 AM

Anna: Our clients have taken to the new vaccine protocol very nicely. Yes, it did take some explaining but so far it seems like no one has failed to report for their annual visit since the change. Perhaps we have a different class of client. In fact--I know we do if you work where I think you work. Hang in there! We all have to spend time practicing in ways we'd prefer not to until we happen upon the right situation.

And yes, we do make less money but not by much. Our emphasis during the yearly visit has always been the physical and the diagnostics--full bloodwork and fecals every year. I've always gone out of my way to say the vaccines are a necessary evil and of secondary imprtance in many ways to the rest of what we do. Maybe it sunk in.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 3rd, 2007 11:51:00 AM

I worry about the vaccination protocol for my Yorkshires. My seven year old male and his 11 year old mother both have little nodules that remain at the site of every vaccination they have ever had. For a long time I lived in a vaccinate every year state and went to a vet who believed in the all vaccinations every year bit.
I wonder how often I need to be vaccinating them now that I live in a three year state, to avoid any future reactions/nodules/possible tumors.

Jenn March 17th, 2007 11:30:00 PM

There is no federal mandate for vaccinating children.

www.thinktwice.com

Vanne March 21st, 2007 12:45:00 AM

My cat died last week from receiving fvrcp, rabies and feleuk vaccines when he was not healthy enough to get them. He had been eating and drinking just fine and acting happy. I took him in for his yearly and they did a CBC and then gave him those vaccinations. I took him home and he immediately started acting ill. They gave me the CBC results the next day--he had serious liver problems and should NEVER have been vaccinated. I tried so hard to save his life, force feeding him several times a day, sub-q fluids twice a day and literally 7 different meds that the vet prescribed. He lasted almost 2 weeks and then it was just too much for his poor old body. I learned a lot with this experience and it broke my heart. I never knew vaccines could harm. I suggested to my vet that they run a CBC and evaluate it before vaccinating geriatric cats. Had they done this, my cat might still be alive.

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