Pet Patients Racing greyhounds: “The proof is in the pudding”

March 26th, 2007  

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Mixing animal husbandry and breeding with the chance of winning money is a bad combination and never good for the animals involved. (See horse racing and horse futurities and shows for more examples of animals leading less than stellar lives filled with injury and abuse at the hands of trainers.) Even mixing human ego and animal husbandry/breeding (as in for shows or comeptitions that award ribbons and titles) can be bad if the human ego is put ahead of the animal.

Thanks for bringing up the symbiotic relationship between rescue and racing. I've made the same point when the question was horse rescue. Unfortunately, I don't think greyhound racing would end if greyhound rescue disappeared. Same goes for horse racing -- it's not going to end if the rescues go away. My best hope for the distruction of a symbiotic relationship is the one between puppy millers and the people who buy dogs at retail stores (or online).

I would love for you to do a blog on how the Amish are getting into the puppy mill business. Can your Pennsylvania connections lend you a hand with that one?

Deanna March 26th, 2007 01:35:00 PM

One of the vet clinics I worked for was the main clinic for a Greyhound rescue, so we'd see them straight from the track for spay/neuter, vaccs, and dental, as well as later on down the line because they also recommended us to their adopters. Anytime an older greyhound came in with a limp it was cancer in one of their toes. There almost wasn't a question about it. They were usually easy dogs for everyone to deal with (and practice blood-draws on!) and pleasant, but it was sad to see what is continuing to happen.

lindabcs March 26th, 2007 02:30:00 PM

Tick-borne disease is very common in greyhounds. Has Proofy been tested?

Gil. March 26th, 2007 03:03:00 PM

I think without greyhound rescue they would keep racing and breeding them because people are making money from the industry. Then when they are "done" with them they will euthanise them by the truckload. I happened to catch a special many years ago where they showed piles of greyhound bodies being loaded into those trucks. (yes bodies) It was sickening. I know my states greyhound rescue group can only go pick a specific number of dogs at a time to take in to rescue. They know the dogs they leave behind get euthanised.

Marie March 26th, 2007 04:27:00 PM

Good question on the tick-borne disease, Gil. I honestly don't remember if we did or not. We don't do it automatically on them but your point is well-taken--we should! Thanks for your input on her health. I always appreciate it whenever anyone points out an issue I might have missed.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 26th, 2007 04:43:00 PM

That first photo shows what I think's the worst part of it - the entirely bare backend of the dog. I've been told (by rescues) that the missing fur is due to the electric shocks their cages are rigged to give them if they sit down, because they're supposed to be trained to always stand so they'll have a faster start.

Your argument against the rescue groups reminds me of how some of my friends believe in adopting cats/dogs only from kill shelters. Their point of view is that if they did not do so, the animals would be killed, rather than taking the point of view that if no one adopted from kill shelters, the shelters would cease to exist and we would only have no-kill shelters.

zandperl March 26th, 2007 04:47:00 PM

" I always appreciate it whenever anyone points out an issue I might have missed."

Thank you for being open to suggestions. TBD is a very big bee in my bonnet. The spread of tick-borne disease is another thing we can attribute in great measure to the wonderful guys who race greyhounds and haul them...and their ticks...all over the place in packs that see very little preventive care or medical attention, as you pointed out. Babesiosis and ehrlichiosis crop up in these dogs way too often and the result can be devastating to the unsuspecting people who adopt them.

Gil. March 26th, 2007 06:16:00 PM

***Mixing animal husbandry and breeding with the chance of winning money is a bad combination and never good for the animals involved. (See horse racing and horse futurities and shows for more examples of animals leading less than stellar lives filled with injury and abuse at the hands of trainers.) Even mixing human ego and animal husbandry/breeding (as in for shows or comeptitions that award ribbons and titles) can be bad if the human ego is put ahead of the animal.***

I don't think you meant this to come across the way I read it. Most animal husbandry is done for profit, whether it be for livlihood or to help support a hobby. I know of quite a few reputable breeders who have their kennel set up as a business. Most years it's a tax deduction, vet bills, showing, field training, dog food & travel etc., can be legitimate business deductions. When they breed a litter, they may show a profit that year. Pesky IRS rules, you have to show a profit some years otherwise it is just considered a "hobby". Chances are that those that don't run it as a business are also not reporting the income from a litter.

The line between animal welfare and animal rights is VERY gray. All animals should be treated humanely, whether they be 'specials' on the show circuit or a cow destined for slaughter. Many pets lead horrible lives.

Gotta go Frontline my dogs, to kill those fleas & ticks!

I don't have any answers....obviously.

Jan March 26th, 2007 08:35:00 PM

zandperl- in 5 years of working with assorted greyhound rescue groups (with widely varying stances on racing!), I've never heard that (about electric shocks)- ouch! Most of the bald-butt issues are due to thyroid deficiency and clear up with meds once the dog is adopted and into a home - or in some cases, as with my own greyhound, the nakedness is just from being rubbed against the too-small crates the dogs live in. My own dog's ugly naked rear and rat-like tail filled in completely with fur within four months of his moving to my home... where he spent his days lounging on soft furniture and taking up most of a king-sized bed...

I know many of the people involved with greyhound rescue wonder how much their efforts are actually just enabling the industry, rather than solving a problem. Still, as with any animal-welfare issue, there are no right answers, one must just try to follow one's moral compass as much as possible. Hence my involvement with several groups...just trying to help get dogs onto couches.

Dr. Patty - give your patient a hug from this California greyhound lover! She looks like a real sweetheart. Her chest matches my guy's ears :(

S. Voigt March 26th, 2007 10:56:00 PM

zandperl - I personally don't believe that adopting from kill shelters keeps them in buisness; most of them are city/county agencies, and they have to take the animals whether they want to or not, and less animals adopted simply means more euthanized due to lack of space/funds. However, you could put it to your friends this way: adopting from a no-kill shelter frees up a space and allows them to go and rescue one more animal from a kill shelter (which is what most of my local rescue groups do)...in that sense, adopting one from a no-kill is kind of like saving two. :)

anna March 26th, 2007 11:44:00 PM

The whole "kill/no kill" shelter argument is pretty big, and off topic. There is a no-kill shelter near us, where I adopted my much-loved calico kitty. However, this same shelter, when my dad died suddenly many years ago, couldn't take his cocker spaniel because they had a waiting period of at least six months (none of us could take him at the time, as we knew he had behavior problems and we all had babies and/or toddlers). Maybe without kill shelters, the no-kill shelters wouldn't have the luxury of existing.

Diane March 27th, 2007 12:39:00 AM

"I don't think you meant this to come across the way I read it. Most animal husbandry is done for profit <snip>"

And I'm not sure what you thought I was saying. I picked my words pretty carefully. Note that I said "husbandry and breeding with the chance of winning money" thus effectively eliminating livestock husbandry and tying it into the human need for competition and gambling with the chance for big winnings. Who loses? The animals.

As far as a so-called reputable breeder having a business set up and actually making money, you and I have a different definition of "reputable breeder." Any reputable breeder I know has so much money sunk into travel costs (showing or trialing, going to seminars and travelling to get to the perfect mate either across the country or even in another country, travel to locations where other breed afficionados gather so they can see a big representation of dogs, etc.), vet bills (health clearances, routine vet care, emergency vet care) that making money breeding a litter once a year or less is hardly an option. Then there's the puppy care with vet care, microchipping, temperament testing, optimal socialization and stimulation and keeping the entire litter to at least 9 weeks. Add to that caring more about the home that the pup goes to than the ability of the potential owner to write a check, rebates given for proof of spaying and neutering AND taking back any dog they bred at any time in the it's life for any reason..... nooooooo, a reputable breeder spends money by the bucketful, but they do it because they love the breed and are willing to do what's best for the breed and for the dogs they put on the ground. Rather than spending money on big boats and homes, they spend it on their dog hobby because that is what they enjoy.

Breeders like this are rare, so maybe you haven't encountered any. But they are out there and they are hard to find because they don't advertise.

Hope this clarified my POV for you.

Deanna March 27th, 2007 08:11:00 AM

Okay, so if I were to go out and adopt a retired Greyhound tomorrow, would I be putting myself at risk for being stoned to death because it is felt I am enabling people that only breed and raise greyhounds for the sake of earning money?

Personally,I like the looks of the racing greyhound versus the AKC version. If I want a greyhound I want a greyhound, not a larger sized whippet. No offense to whippet owners, I just perfer that my dogs have some lean muscle mass on them.

This question is not meant to be sarcastic and yes, in the future I do plan on adopting a greyhound. A close friend of mine had one for 11 years who was a doll and the one she has now isn't do much of a doll, but he's still cool in his own way.

Stacy March 27th, 2007 10:44:00 AM

Stacy- I don't think you'd be at any risk of negative treatment for adopting a greyhound! unless things are MUCH different in your part of the country. Every single comment I get about my hound is positive, no matter what light I portray his racing career in - positive, neutral, negative.

I think the concern about enabling the industry is somewhat valid BUT it's a case of choosing the lesser evil, and no one would want to go back to the days of dog dumpings and mass euthanasias... would they? The work being done by the greyhound adoption/rescue advocates does have impact on many of the breeders and trainers, and many of these folks are beginning to plan responsibly for their dogs' futures past retirement. For example my own dog was placed privately with me by his owner and trainer, as they do with all their retiring dogs. I recently heard of another group that is doing "pre-adoption", where potential adopters essentially offer the dog a place in their home at retirement when it's born. Still not ideal - the homes need to be planned for prior to breeding, in a perfect world, and life comes without guarantees - but it's a big step in the right direction.
I've still got a big problem, though, like Dr. Patty, with the treatment (or lack thereof) of the dogs while actually AT the track.

I agree with you about the racing greyhounds and their looks. Plus they're just such innate sweethearts, who can resist?

OK, sorry for being somewhat on a soapbox. Sleeping next to one of these fantastic dogs every night kind of gets to you!

S. Voigt March 27th, 2007 12:28:00 PM

"I've been told (by rescues) that the missing fur is due to the electric shocks their cages are rigged to give them if they sit down, because they're supposed to be trained to always stand so they'll have a faster start".

I grew up in the shadow on Wonderland Dog track in MA and a lot of people I know worked and still work there. I was told they cattle prod the dogs not to sit so that when they are on display before the race people will bet on them....thus more money for the owners.-Nnacy

nancy March 28th, 2007 06:36:00 AM

S. Voigt- I live in MA where our dog tracks have a long history of having mass graves. It's not just with Greyhounds though as horse bodies have been known to surface on Marshfield fair fairgrounds. Imagine that. Bring your kids to the fair to see farm animals, play games, go on rides, eat cotton candy and fried dough and in the center of it all, horse bodies rise from the ground. It makes for an interesting day out of the house.

We went to visit a Greyhound Rescue place not all that long ago. The people we saw have been rescuing Greyhounds for a long time and they don't take what they do lightly.

We asked them how the felt about racing Greyhounds just to see where they stood on the issue. They also do not like how these animals are treated, but they also said that they ( along with other groups from winthin the state) are working hard to see to that these dogs are getting better diets, medical treatment and have an overall better quality life even while they are working. While they cannot wave their magic wand and fix all the problems, I took what they were saying as progress is being made, even if it is slower than they'd like and I believe they were genuine with their concerns and their efforts.


They also went on to say that they stopped taking dogs from down south as their health is bad that in most cases, the most humane thing to do is to euthanize them. I didn't ask what caused them to create this new rule, but judging from the tone and facial expressions I was given while I was being informed of this, I'm gathering it wasn't all that long ago.

I don't gamble, so I don't understand why any person would spend an entire day putting their life savings and credit card on a racing dog or horse. The last time I actually bought a scratch ticket was well over 14 years ago and I won $2.00 on a $1.00 ticket. With that in mind, I also think it would be a shame of the racing version of the Greyhound disappeared as as you said, they have alot of heart.

The question I have is why are these problems becoming an issue now? Why wasn't anything being done about it before? Is it a generation thing? I also don't agree with how the state of MA deals with this issue. Clearly they don't care as all they are after is the tax revenue even though Ted Kennedy claims to be an animal person. I'll consider the source on that seeing how he himself has a history and has a dog named Splash ( gotta love the irony) I can't help but roll my eyes when he starts babbling about how things are going to change.

Regardless, it still all boils down to responsibility or the lack of. Whether we talk about Greyhounds, kittens or any other type of pet, people are still going to do rotten things and mistreat animals. The woman that got under my skin yesterday told me that she's feeding her dog 8 cups of food a day and his ribs are still sticking out. When I suggested that she look into it, I was tattled on even though what I said was clear for everybody to see. I even posted the ingredients of her dogs diet so she could see for herself that what she was feeding was nothing more than a marketing ploy. Nutro is a terrible diet as there is hardly any "food" within their foods, but I'm an @--hole for pointing that out. I even suggested added veggies to his kibble so there would be atleast some bulk in his diet and at that point I was told to shut up.

I didn't get a chance to get into how he should be checked out of intestinal parasites and possibly have some bloodwork done to see why her pet that she loves so much cannot maintain his own weight.

Can't afford the vet, can't afford the pet....

Stacy March 28th, 2007 08:31:00 AM

Not all greyhound rescue groups are pro-industry, or even "neutral". When I adopted my Goldie (who I lost back in November after 7 wonderful years), I carefully researched both sides and went with a rescue (<A HREF="http://www.rescuedgreyhounds.com/">Michigan REGAP</A>) that is adamently anti-racing. There are several greyhound rescues out there that are outspoken in their opposition to the racing industry.

They attempt to shut down the abuse that the racing industry is built upon by lobbying against measures that would give tracks a new infusion of money (most tracks are in severe financial distress right now due to competition from other gambling outlets) and raising public awareness of the horrors endured by the dogs. These rescues place as many dogs as they can - but not at the cost of prolonging the suffering of the other dogs by advocating for the industry or condoning its abuse.

Nan March 28th, 2007 06:32:00 PM

I am Proofys new mom and I happy to have saved her life, or rather made it much better. She is a sweet, loving dog and is licking my face as we speak! She no longer lives in a crate, instead she happily follows me wherever I go... I work from home and she lies by my desk all day.


I support the rescuers. Racetracks are not in business because of the rescuers and they won't stop racing if the rescues stops.... I am happy I was able to give Proofy a better life. She is truly a delight.

Elena April 3rd, 2007 06:45:00 PM

Elena. Thanks for joining in. I'm so glad you found us. Proofy has a lot of fans, as you can tell, and she's spawned a lively discussion. Thanks for being so generous about letting me post her pics. I think this kind of forum makes like-minded people think more deeply about the issues surrounding racing.

Dr. Patty Khuly April 3rd, 2007 06:58:00 PM

I know this is an old entry but I still feel compelled to comment. Up until a few years ago, when I made the decision to withdraw from adoption and rescue in favor of focusing my attention on the animals in my own home, I was very active in greyhound adoption. My significant other and I currently have 5 retired racing greyhounds and have fostered many others. I have visited greyhound race tracks, including visits to kennel areas, breeding farms, rescue kennels, foster homes, etc. Having been so immersed in the breed, I will admit to being somewhat touchy when conversation turns to issues surrounding greyhound racing and rescue. Buckle your seat belts... the ride might get a little bumpy from here. . .

Greyhound racing, just like horse racing, existed long before there were greyhound rescue groups. Pre-greyhound rescue, the dogs were euthanized (read shot, bludgeoned, drowned, hung from trees, starved, turned loose, etc., as they frequently continue to be in Spain), sold to hunters, sold for vivisection, etc.. . . With the advent of greyhound rescue, dogs are euthanized, sold to hunters, sold for vivisection, etc. BUT IN FEWER NUMBERS. More dogs going into homes, fewer dogs going into mass graves. To borrow Martha's catch phrase, "It's a good thing."

My personal position on greyhound racing is what it is. However, when speaking with anyone about the racing industry I maintain a neutral stance for the following reasons: the "good" owners and breeders are going to care for their dogs appropriately and happily release retired or unraceable dogs to adoption. "Bad" owners and breeders will kill the dogs or sell them the to yahoos that will treat them far worse than you would want to imagine. If it is the rescue/adoption group's mission to place greyhounds into loving homes, it makes sense to work with the industry. If the "bad" guys trust you because they don't perceive that you are actively seeking to take away their livelihood, they'll be more likely to let you take their "culls"; if they don't, they'll kill a lot of good dogs. If the "good" guys trust you, they'll be more likely to hold their culls for a significant period of time. It's the "you catch more flies with honey" approach. Many adoption groups believe that Greyhound racing isn't going to stop so by working with the industry fewer dogs die.

Abuses do occur in the greyhound racing industry. However, to label all owners and trainers as abusers is unfair and inaccurate. Anyone interested in sharing information about greyhounds should make a point to visit a greyhound breeder's "farm" before making statements such as "the missing fur is due to electric shocks their cages are rigged to give them if they sit down." (No offense or attack intended towards zandperl who was simply repeating what he/she was told by rescues). No one really knows what causes bald butt. For some dogs, it's a thyroid condition. For some it's laying on a piece of carpet in their kennel. I have one who has not a single hair on his hind end, yet he does not have a thyroid condition (or any identifiable medical condition for that matter) and has spent the last 4 years uncrated and sleeping on nothing more abrasive than a sofa. Again, there are bad farms and bad conditions. But there are also good farms and good conditions.

As an adoption volunteer, I had no illusions about the "romance of the breed's tradition" nor did I relish the fact of Greyhound racing because it gave my chosen group a reason to exist. People are going to race Greyhounds whether rescue is there to pick up the pieces afterwards or not. Please don't insult those who work hard to help the dogs by essentially labeling them as racing industry parasites with an god complex.

As to the numbers of Greyhounds out there, keeping in mind that not all adoption groups are affiliated with each other and there is simply no way to know exactly how many pups are born from every breeding in the country, a telephone call or email to the National Greyhound Association in Wichita, Kansas will get you the number of dogs registered with them. A telephone call or email to Rory Goree of Greyhound Pets of America will get you the number of dogs placed by that organization. In my experience, Greyhound adoption groups are quite open about the number of dogs they place each year. Many groups maintain detailed files on each dog that enters their program, along with a database that allows them to track who each dog is adopted to in case it is lost, or found, after adoption. I suspect any group you contact will be more than happy to disclose how many dogs they've placed into homes.

Without greyhound rescue/adoption groups, the general public would most likely not even KNOW that a large percentage of greyhounds bred for racing were/are euthanized every year. I think it's a stretch to believe that the public might not tolerate the industry's death rate if greyhound groups did not exists. The general public (and I'm referring to the REAL general public, not those of us who love animals and frequent message boards and blogs such as this one) doesn't care enough to have an opinion one way or the other on the subject. If they did, greyhound racing and horse racing would have disappeared long before the advent of the first rescue group. Every shelter would be no-kill, or better yet there would be no need for shelters because every animal would have a permanent loving home.

Greyhounds are fabulous dogs. Like any breed, they are not the right breed for everyone. Research into both their pre-rescue environment AND their rescue environment is essential in understanding the breeds behavior and temperment.

And. . . love the blogs and comments (even all the ones on this topic!). Thanks for giving your point of view and for allowing space for others to weigh in as well.

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