Vetcetera Got a mutt? Discern a Dalmatian-cross from a Dingo-mix with a handy new test

May 26th, 2007  

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I've also heard mutterings of concern over insurance companies wanting all owners of mixed-breed dogs to DNA test their dogs to ensure that they do not contain any "black-listed breed" blood. A lot of people, I think, do not have any idea that homeowners insurance companies will not insure people with certain breeds- from pit bulls and rottweilers to shar peis and chow chows.... some even list huskies. What will this kind of thing do to the owners of mixed-breed dogs, or to potential owners of mixed-breed shelter dogs?

elegy May 26th, 2007 11:53:00 AM

I don't know which company you are referring to, but I have read through this particular site, http://www.metamorphixinc.com/products2a.html and they specifically DO NOT include pit bull in their breed-test list for obvious reasons. Yes AKC does use these guys, not for every single dog registered with them, but for cases where they feel it is warranted. It is an interesting concept though- I have considered having my two rescue boys tested, though I doubt it would matter one bit in their future, more out of my own curiosity.

Margaret May 26th, 2007 12:48:00 PM

Yeah, I don't like the concept too much. It just seems like it would make 'breed bans' so much easier in the long run... "Oh, your dog has APBT in it- gotta go!"

And I'm not a pit fan, but I realize a lot of people adore their pits and who are we to take a dog away from an adoring family?

Trish May 26th, 2007 10:09:00 PM

I don't have anything constructive to add to this really.

Here in MA, Silky Haired Terriers are on the "bad dog list" because somebody got bit by one. The last Silky Haired Terrier that I came into contact with wieghed about a pound and half, so I have no idea how they compare to other breeds that are on the list, except that Pits are also a terrier. When she broke her right front leg by means of landing the wrong way when she hopped off the owners couch, the cast she had to wear weighed more than she did.

From the insurance stand point, it's just them sticking their wet, greedy noses where they don't belong, once again. It's just another way for them to make more money as if they don't make enough porfits as it is.

Greed within the pet industry seems to be making an all time high these days...

Stacy May 27th, 2007 07:35:00 AM

Wow. I'd not seen the list of breeds before. There are no bull & terrier breeds at all on it. Interesting. I am relieved, I admit.

elegy May 27th, 2007 11:05:00 AM

Stacy--huh? I live in Massachusetts, too. When I called my insurance company to ask about getting a dog, they told me they don't care about any dog under 25 pounds, unless the <i>individual dog</i> has a record. And yes, that was this year--I got my dog just two months ago.

Lis May 27th, 2007 11:57:00 AM

Hi Lis,

That's interesting. Either they have changed the rules since we bought the house or different insurance companies are telling people different things as my homeowners insurance company made it a point to stress that Silky Haired Terriers were bad dogs and that our premium would go up if we owned one.

They rolled their eyes going through the list of other breeds.. Pits, German Shepards, Rotti's, ect. Maybe the person we spoke with has issues with small terriers. LOL If that's the case, I didn't take offense and it didn't bother me as I have one of those as well.

Stacy May 27th, 2007 12:26:00 PM

Gah, I'm into canine genetics and practical applications of genetics in breeding -------- but this breed ID thing really smells like a WHACKED form of "Genetics for Fun and Profit". In fact I had some ongoing threads with several breeders over the past year regarding these issues.

As one breeder put it: No matter how many "breeds" so-called genetic experts claim to have on file, there is no gene for "breed". Genes code for things like hair length, color, height, ear shape - but it is a specific combination of all these things - and more - that identify a dog as a "breed".

As to identifying a "pit bull" one thing to keep in mind is that many of the genetic strings/patterns that are associated with breeds may be actually behavioral QTL microsatellites. Some may be associated with color and head shape, general morphology of the dog in question. Certain breeds have certain prevailing patterns due to the family clades they evolved from. When discussing canine genetics with associates, I call these microsats "genetic bracelets" made up of beads, a useful analogy so people can learn how a missing bead or an extra one on the bracelet can be a benefit or not. It is NOT KNOWN what each of the various microsatellites are coding for.

One breeder with Bernese and another independent with another breed I can't recall at the moment, sent samples in for prototype "breed ID" testing, I'm sure they were not alone. These were pedigreed dogs and several were show champions. Their breeds were misidentified as cobblings of other breed blends.

In another case, a friend of mine acquired an imported Turkish dog brought back from Turkey by a military person (that no importation papers turned up for) and the dog's blood sample was also submitted for the prototype breed ID testing at one company. I have copies of the results, but this (alleged) Anatolian was tested to have 53 percent of the tested genes to be in common with the Great Pyrenees.

Anatolians very likely do not decend from the Pyr, more likely they had common but extinct ancestors. The Turkish flock guardians are likely to be older in origin as flock guards than the Pyr may be.

So what you can come away with in the test is that the imported mystery dog has a pattern in his genetic 'bracelet' that had similarities to the Great Pyrs in the database.

The dog in question was young but had unmistakeable flock guardian type with curved tail, pendant ears, size, medium coated (not long haired), single rear dewclaws on both hind legs, extreme white spotted (color headed white), with a black super extension patter (black muzzle and faded ears) and most certainly had independent, protective LGD behavior. (LGD= Livestock guardian dog)

From what I have read in the lay population, people going for the idea that a genetic test can identify a principle breed are going to abuse this by taking assumptions and posing them as facts.

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