Vet School 101 Pet dental care is going higher tech…but will you pay for it?

July 30th, 2007  

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Oh Dr. Khuly,

I have to go on record here, it's not that we are not willing, it's often that we are not able. I earn a fair living and am lucky to have dental and health insurance, but I myself have deferred needed dental work for inability to pay. On three occasions I have chosen extraction (for myself), because the alternative was truly more than I can afford.

I never want my beloved animal companions to suffer or run the risk of secondary or systemic infection from their teeth and that is why I may choose extraction for them as well.

Even with good private dental insurance, my (human) co-pays (for restorative dentistry) often cost more than my budget can bear unless I stretch the work out over months and months. Not that you asked but, my car is 20 years old and paid for. I have very little consumer debt other than my mortgage, I really work hard to live within my means. I am not spending my disposable income on luxuries while my own and my animal companions dental health declines.

I don't think the problem is human dentists or vets are "overcharging", on the contrary, most of the professionals I know work hard to sustain their practices and stay in the black--none of them are driving new sports cars or living in palaces either.

I know that I do not represent every patient or animal steward out there, but I don't think I am alone either.

p.s. Both of my dogs are adult (over age 5) rescues, one rescued and rehabbed on my dime, and one through a private rescue organization. Both came into rescue with horrific dental issues, my sheltie needed over $1500 worth of work on an emergency basis. Her vet owns his own small practice and discounted his work charging only $750 AND letting me pay him over 6 months. Which I did, religiously. I feel very fortunate for his generosity, but I would never EXPECT this sort of kindness, he has employees to pay and a family to feed as well. We were just very fortunate in this instance.

B.A. Ray July 30th, 2007 11:09:00 AM

My vet does have an x-ray, and has used it on my cats. It has resulted in him extracting a couple less teeth than originally estimated. However, as I've stated on a previous thread, my female Ida's teeth are so bad that there really isn't any saving them once decay sets in. I could probably come up with the money for a root canal/ reconstruction, but I would have to weigh the potental benefit against the potential cost and discomfort for her. I find my dental procedures uncomfortable for me - I'm sure I'd want to subject her to a procedure that requires another round of anesthetic and could be painful.

Unlike people, you don't have to worry about cosmetic issues for your pet - they don't care if they don't have a perfect smile. So for me it would come down to would saving a tooth be worth it for a cat that has already lost 9 teeth and has no trouble eating soft or hard food? But no matter what, whether she a half or full Toothless Wondercat, she will always be my little baby and I want her to be happy and pain free.

2CatMom July 30th, 2007 01:16:00 PM

Of course it's an issue of resource management, too. It's just that I see how much people spend on non-maintenance grooming and clothing then forego the basics in dental care as if it's another little luxury. It's not that way for everyone, of course.

Dr. Patty Khuly July 30th, 2007 03:01:00 PM

You know, I have to agree with B.A. Ray on this one. In some cases it just has to come down to whether or not we can afford to pay for (what you might consider) a diagnostic necessity. I earn a decent income, but nothing spectacular. I'm a young professional still working to pay off my student loans and car loan. My dogs' (I have four) health is every bit as important as my own, which is why I brush their teeth and give them dental chews and bones. But, that being said, I haven't been to a dentist in 4 years - not since I was an undergraduate. I simply couldn't afford the $600 dental deductible required by my insurance, when I knew that my teeth were in reasonably good condition because I took good care of them. I feel rather the same way about the dogs - I try to take good care of their teeth, monitor for periodontal disease on a regular basis, and would take them to the vet immediately if I noticed something that looked like it might be a problem.

My vet's base rate is $210 for a cleaning, and any X-rays or extractions are in addition to that. She recommends biannual cleanings. I just cannot afford that, and told her so, especially since my dogs' teeth are in fairly good condition and I monitor them closely. I then asked if she'd teach me how to scale my dogs' teeth so that I could bring them in for one cleaning a year rather than two, and she refused. I think maybe I need to get a new vet, because I'm getting the feeling that my animals' welfare isn't as important to her as my ability to write $800 worth of checks for preventative dental maintenance for the year.

What do you think, Dr. Khuly? Is it irresponsible of me to own four dogs when I can't afford to have their teeth cleaned by a professional twice a year? I wonder, sometimes, if I should have fewer, but I just can't justify giving them back to a rescue organization when I know it's likely that they would be euthanized (which is the reason I got them in the first place). It's a tough decision, but somewhere, sometimes, you just have to offer the best care that is within your means and hope for the financial freedom to afford better care (for them and myself!) in the future.

Sara July 30th, 2007 04:25:00 PM

The necessity of professional dental care is one of the reasons I choose to vaccinate, deworm, and treat some simple conditions myself. I'm always careful to not get in over my head w/at-home treatment, but quite a bit of preventive care can be done at home instead of at the vet's office. One can keep their own supply of vaccines, dewormers, etc. It also helps to buy in bulk when you can, i.e., purchasing the biggest packaged dose of flea/tick and then dosing several animals w/one tube (make sure to do your homework for proper dosages, though!) People always raise their eyebrows at me when I do these types of things - I guess they figure since I work at an animal hospital, I shouldn't need to. But the simple fact is that for every dollar I save doing things myself, it's one more dollar I can spend on things I can't do myself...like complicated dental work. That's why it kills me to see people declining dental prophys and such b/c they've already spent their money on the slew of vaccines and overpriced shampoos, etc., that I'm expected to push...

anna July 30th, 2007 05:19:00 PM

I believe that an animal should have an Oral ATP every 2 years ( Oral Assesment Treatment and Prevention) otherwise known as a "dental". In many cases periodontal disease is causeing other bodily infections (from the Not given attention to the teeth.)
I'd like to specialize in dentistry because i feel that the public needs to know more about their animals Oral care, and not just their vaccines, neautering and occasional viruses.
Yes, it is very expensive for a Dentistry.
But I know many clients in my practice that have been able to completly avoid putting their animal under anestisia, for the one reason that they are brushing the teeth.
Compare this with the human race, ofcourse calculs is going to build up if we dont brush or use any type of flush or floss, so what do you expect with animals?
If animal owners would give oral home care, they probably wouldn't be in the future outraged with pricy bills to pay.
I agree with Dr. Khuly. And yes it is expensive, but think about how much time, technology, and people are put into the procedure. I have been in a dental procedure for over 5 hours once, with 4 people present. There is alot of knowledge to be known on dentistry, and the doctors who have digital x-ray and dental equipment should be applauded. There is much more continuing education to be learned and by doing so..... They could just be saving your animals life.

Shell July 30th, 2007 09:58:00 PM

Sara: Twice a year? That seems a bit extreme unless your dogs have some really serious dental/gum problems. And if you are brushing their teeth - you may not even need an annual cleaning. My almost Toothless Wondercat gets a once a year cleaning unless I detect an odor or some problem. The other cat seems to be on a 18 month to 2 year cycle.

2CatMom July 31st, 2007 01:01:00 PM

Beaner has had one tooth pulled .... he broke it off and it was causing him enough pain that he wouldn't eat, play...just sat around with his ears folded flat.
One doc said restoration would be possible at an enormous price. The other country doc said if it hurts him, pull it.
Based on my ability to pay, I opted for the extraction. Even if I had the money, I am not sure I would spend it on restoring a tooth. I love my dogs, but if I can solve a broken tooth for $100 or $800, I've got to go with the $100, and save my bucks for life or death emergencies.

Agadore's momma July 31st, 2007 06:45:00 PM

2CatMom: I know - that's why I think she's perhaps more interested in my checkbook than their health. It seems absurd to me - they don't even have the beginning of periodontal disease. I guess that maybe she knows how much I love them and am willing to sacrifice for them? I don't know, the whole situation makes me feel like I'm letting them down, even though I know their teeth are in good shape. I hate the hard-sell guilt trip I always get when I go in. It's like the lepto vaccine - we don't have a problem with lepto in Alaska, and they don't travel outside, but they still look at me like I'm crazy when I ask them not to vaccinate for it. *sigh*

Sara August 1st, 2007 01:30:00 AM

It never occurred to me that xrays weren't standard practice. My vet office uses them so I just considered it normal.

This helps explain a recent conversation with a cat ownder that was upset because her cat had 11 teeth pulled during a dental cleaning and she had no clue that they were pulling any until she picked the cat up. I asked her about the xrays and she said there weren't any. Made me wonder what kind of guess work was used to decide to pull 11 teeth!

jennyg August 1st, 2007 08:35:00 AM

(Had to post twice as for some reason this wasn't accepting my postings as one long post)
This past winter we had one of our cats in for a cleaning. We knew he had one extraction ahead of time as from observation it looked like he had a neck lesion (feline ondoclastic resorptive lesion). The xray confirmed this. The xray also showed that he had another neck lesion as well as a third cavity that might become one. Without this xray the second neck lesion may have been missed - and for sure the third cavity would have been. So we would have had to revisit the problem a year later, or even worse make the cat suffer with a painful neck lesion in the meantime. The vet provided me copies of these xrays and it is very clear from looking at them that the teeth needed to be removed. Obviously there is a cost factor here and some people can't afford this - but as long as I can afford to have their teeth xrayed during cleaning I will. My dentist usually does it for all cleanings just like I would when I go to the dentist.

Thanks for the eye opener!

jennyg August 1st, 2007 08:37:00 AM

Sara: Sure, it sounds expensive. But remember, *you* are in charge of their healthcare--not your vet. Your vet is there to make recommendations based on her knowledge. You are there to accept or reject these advances based on your trust in her and your ability to pay. It sounds to me as if your ability to pay takes a backseat to your significant trust issues in this case. You're just not sure she has the whole pet in mind--and that includes not only the anesthetic risk of potentially unnecessary dentals, but your financial status in the event of a serious emergency. I'd never tell you to get another vet. But I will have you read between the lines and note that *trust* is by far the most important factor in selecting a vet.

Dr. Patty Khuly August 1st, 2007 10:47:00 AM

I should mention that my vet will let me know what he thinks will need to be done extraction- wise when he examines them at their annual physical. When I bring them in for the dental appointment he takes x-rays and call me to let me know if the x-rays revealed anything that wasn't visible previously. (Imagine my surprise when the call last time was to tell me that one less tooth than previously estimated was being extracted).

Hey, if eleven teeth need to be extracted - fine, but I would expect to be informed about it before I went to pick my cats up. What would happen, if I didn't have the money and couldn't put it on a credit card?

Our annual visit is on Saturday - I'm sure both cats will need their teeth cleaned. And I won't be suprised if a couple more extractions are recommended for Ida. Its going to be an expensive month!

2CatMom August 1st, 2007 12:00:00 PM

You know, I actually haven't a clue whether or not any of my 'regular' vets have a dental x-ray machine. What a phenomenal question! The reason I don't know is simply that I take my animals to the board certified veterinary dentist whenever we need a cleaning or other work done. I am a raw feeder so it would probably be safe to say that our dental needs are less than those of people who do not provide lots of ripping and tearing action for their pets, but that doesn't negate the need for thorough examinations and cleanings under the gumline all of which I feel are imperative for good health.

Still, the dental care for my animals does not come cheap but I have to say that the $1300 I recently paid for a root canal and cleaning on my 4 y/o Chow was more than reasonable IMO. Compared to the human dental industry, how much would it have cost were I to have a full consultation, complete anaesthesia, too many x-rays to count, a team of professionals monitoring me, an hour and a half root canal procedure, monitored recovery, a post surgical consultation and then pain medication to take home? Certainly a whole lot more than $1300. So while I can appreciate some of the sticker shock value when it comes to veterinary dental care, considering the bigger picture I still find it a good bang for the buck.

12paws August 1st, 2007 04:10:00 PM

2CatMom - yes - I don't think the owner was upset that 11 teeth needed to be removed, but that her vet never notified her. Mine does similar to yours - there is a form that I sign that says whether we agree to go over the estimate or not and indicates if we want them to call us during the process. In this person's case I was under the impression that her vet did not charge extra for the extractions. So, her anger was that she was not called during the process. Apparently the vet needs to work on procedure and explain how they do things before a dental.

My point was that they are simply guessing at what teeth to pull without an xray and 11 seems like a lot of teeth to pull without any diagnostic xray first.

jennyg August 1st, 2007 06:39:00 PM

I suppose its possible that the teeth were so rotten that it was obvious. But the vet should have called and gotten your friends permission first.

I'd give the vet a few points for not charging for all the extractions - I've never heard of a vet that didn't.

2CatMom August 2nd, 2007 04:57:00 PM

I have more of a question than a comment. I brought my cat in for a routine teeth-cleaning a week ago. His teeth were in an advanced stage of tartar build-up and had been since we adopted him from the Humane Society. He was around 4½-5 yrs old. Everything went just fine during the procedure, including coming out of the anesthesia. All of his labs were normal, and there was no heart murmur detected. However, a few hours after I brought him home, he started having severe breathing problems. We brought him to an emergency clinic that evening, where we were told that he had a large heart murmur, and his lungs were edematous with interstitial fluid buildup from the IV fluids given during the sedation, and he had gone into congestive heart failure. Our cat died early the following morning, after being in an oxygen 'cage' all night and being given diuretics to try to get the fluid down. He ended up having seizures and was given CPR twice, but nothing helped in the end. After this horrific experience, I would love to have some idea of what you think may have happened, and if there could have been any warning signs that we or the vet may have missed along the way. No one should ever have to suffer the way we have for the past week over this loss. Please advise. Thank you.

hgreen August 3rd, 2007 11:27:00 AM

Hi - I'm not qualified to answer your question - I would hope there was a way to monitor for such a situation. But, I'm so sorry for your loss.

jennyg August 4th, 2007 03:46:00 PM

hgreen: I'm so sorry for what you've been through. No one should have to suffer what you've experienced. The worst part is, I've seen reactions like this after vaccines and with viruses. Fluids during surgery seem an unlikely culprit, though I'd never rule anything out in a difficult case like this. Your vet more than likely feels as bad about this as anyone (except you, of course). Sometimes things like this happen and we never realy know why it happened.

If you need some reassurance and desire a vet's perspective in general, read this post on a similar event:
http://www.dolittler.com/index.cfm/2006/11/2/pet.v...

Again, I am so sorry for your loss.

Dr. Patty Khuly August 4th, 2007 06:29:00 PM

We're back from the vet with some suprising news. Ida doesn't even need a cleaning this time around (probably in 6 months)! She doesn't have any gum issues and only one tooth had some tarter on it. So the gum wiping is paying off big time.

On the other hand, my big guy has a bad tooth - hence the stinky mouth. Its really bad - the whole gum is swollen. I feel just terrible. His breath has been bad for over a month - but I figured it could wait for our annual visit. It must be painful - though he hasn't shown any signs of discomfort. He's getting it out in a week but its a lesson learned. I'm never going to put off taking one of them in if they have mouth odor.

And as for his psycho cat behavior after anesthesia- I have a tranquilizer to give him before I take him in. Funny, I'm only supposed to give him one pill - but there are four in the bottle. I guess the other three are for me!

2CatMom August 4th, 2007 07:50:00 PM

I brush my dog's teeth every night. Is that weird?

Also, I have many friends that use LEBA III with great success.......

Amy in Cambridge August 6th, 2007 08:24:00 AM

Amy: You rock! No you are not weird. Move to Miami and you'll be my number one client!
btw, what's LEBA III?

Dr. Patty Khuly August 6th, 2007 09:51:00 AM

Wow...affording dental maintenance every year (or possibly more) freaks me out, so I just avoid the whole thing by brushing my dogs teeth every 3 nights, and give bully sticks and nice raw meaty bones. From what I understand periodontal disease can affect other parts of the body and that's just something I don't want to risk. Thank you for the insight on this subject!

Carissa August 8th, 2007 03:23:00 PM

My big boy is back from the vet and it turned out he had 3 rotten teeth. In addition to the one the vet saw immediately, x-rays revealed two more with lesions.

So - what to do? I've tried brushing his teeth or wiping his gums like I do with my other cat, but 15 lbs of strong willful kitty with all claws intact and very sharp teeth is just more than I can deal with. He doesn't mind the taste of the toothpaste, but the brush or anything in his mouth really pisses him off. I adopted him when he was already full grown and he has always been a high energy, don't mess with me kind of cat.

He's the sweetest boy except when he gets messed with in a way he doesn't like. I can generally brush his coat for maybe two whole minutes before he get nippy. Nail trimming - don't ask- I'm lucky if I can get 1-2 nails per session.

Any suggestions?

2CatMom August 13th, 2007 06:44:00 PM

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