Vetcetera Does how your vet hold your pet make a difference to you?

July 9th, 2007  

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I've owned a fear biter. I expect that a vet is going to use the same hold I would if my pet is being examined in a way that, well, s/he finds unpleasant. It is very important that the vet and vet assistants are able to do what they need to do. The hold may seem aggressive to those who have very little experience with animals in trouble or thinking they are in trouble, but it isn't. It is a necessary safety measure.

Like I said, I had a fear biter that the vet let me hold during exams because it lessened her stress and made her more comfortable. I know that it is important to give the animal as little opportunity as possible to bite. Even the best behaved dog or cat (never met a best behaved cat) will bite if they are threatened.

Pax,

MLO

MLO July 9th, 2007 11:07:00 AM

I have an aggressive dog, although she's not aggressive with those she knows. Which means she loves the vet, but doesn't know any of the techs (there are always different ones, so we couldn't ever establish a relationship with any of them.) So a tech is never in the room with us. But she's so lax with the vet that I can stand on the other side of the room and my vet can draw blood all by herself with my dog just standing there. She never even moves. My vet says she's the poster child for bloodwork.

With my other giant loveable dog, well he's pretty ancy at the vet and so we need a tech in the room. Basically to tie off the leg while I back him up against me so he can't try to escape. That's his only goal. ESCAPE.

Either way my dogs are big and don't need to be (well can't be) held anyway. And they are never out of my sight. That's a rule with me. They don't go where I can't go, unless it's at the ER. I had some previous bad experiences with vets a long time ago and so adopted that rule and now it works. Although I do trust my current vet, so I guess wouldn't necessarily need to enforce that rule, but she seems to know that they aren't going anywhere without me anyway.

Great Dane Addict July 9th, 2007 11:59:00 AM

Our last dog was the best dog I've ever met in my life and I miss her terribly. Our vet never had any reason to fear her -- until the very last days of her life. The vet, reluctantly and at my request, muzzled her for her final few exams. She'd tried to nip ME for the first time in her life and I couldn't let them take the risk.

The current dog has to be watched. She doesn't bite to inflict damage, but she'll nip when she's scared. My biggest problem with her is the occasional pet owner who thinks they can touch MY dog when I've clearly advised them not to because she gets anxious in the waiting room. Dummies.

Hold my dog any way you need to to keep her and yourself safe. I base my judgments on her behavior as we're leaving - that's when I can tell whether or not she was particularly stressed by what's happened. Dogs, or at least mine, aren't nearly as stressed by that Crocodile Hunter hold as some owners apparently are.

Judy July 9th, 2007 12:18:00 PM

I've always been impressed at how my vets take a squirmy nervous dog and hold him/her in a way that calms the dog and immobilizes whatever needs to be immobilized. I've never been offended at that. I wasn't even offended when they muzzled my gentle elderly golden retriever (who apparently did snap during some painful procedure--you just never know).

Arlene July 9th, 2007 12:20:00 PM

As a tech, I always tried to say something to prepare the owner before putting their pet into a vice grip hold. Something about demonstrating my half-Nelson if I know them and think humor might put them at ease, or just a quick explanation so it doesn't take them by surprise. And I tried to work in some petting and affection, or a little soothing talk--it certainly won't won't work miracles on a terrified pet, but this can also help relax the owner. I think people seem to intuitively put more trust in staff they feel cares about their pet on a personal level. In my experience, a pet's anxiety often increases proportionally with its owner's.

It's the tiny Chihuahuas that I could never win with... Teeny weeny little trembling dogs that will sink their teeth into your hand if you relax your grip, but feel like they'll break if you hold too tight. Invariably, the owner hovers fretfully and carries on and generally makes sure said Chihuahua is traumatized by the experience.

(I know there must be Chihuahuas that don't fit this profile, I just haven't met any.)

abc July 9th, 2007 01:49:00 PM

i agree on the chihuahuas... when people come into the grooming salon for a nail trim, i always cringe a little if it's a chi, shiba inu, jack russel, or basset. there are several breeds that we cant muzzle due to a tendency to collapsing tracheas and most little dogs and all smash-face dogs fall under this category. you havent lived til you have a psychotic chi/jack russel cross attempting to explode out of the towel we've wrapped him in while an entire saturday's worth of people stare into the salon in amusement, outrage, and concern. our salon is in the front of a large nationally-known pet supply store,right in front of the registers. so as you're purchasing Sissy's Kong toy you get to watch several groomers as they attempt any number of feats on dogs who would rather bite them than hold still.

it's texas hold em sometimes, but we do it for the safety of the animal and for the safety of our very valuable hands!

CHARITY July 9th, 2007 02:52:00 PM

I just took my two shiba inus in for their bi-yearly exam. There is a big florescent sign that says "Thank you for letting us restrain your pet during our exam." I always laugh because it takes the tech, the vet and me to hold my diva shiba - and we giggle the whole time. I encourage them to show me new, resoureful ways to "restrain" her. It would save me a lot of money and skin when it comes time to clip her toenails.

(My rescue pup just stands patiently. My sweet boy.)

kelli July 9th, 2007 05:08:00 PM

As long as you get down on the floor with my dog and can find a vein without jabbing him over and over searching for it, I'll give you or your tech the benefit of the doubt on the hold.

Gil. July 9th, 2007 08:21:00 PM

I just found out about your blog from a piece in Vet Econ. Good stuff! I have a blog which is partly about vet med, partly about other things. My big weekly vet topic is "Toxicology Tuesday," where I post photos of common household items and ask my readers to guess if it is "Toxic or Not?" I edit the post with the answers a day or so later, giving clinical signs, toxic doses, etc. My big rule is that I don't diagnosis, prescribe, or criticize another vet's approach.

On the restraint thing, I have known a number of animals over the years (21) who do better away from the owners. Either the owner is a hand-wringing worried Mom with a high-pitched, tense voice (leading the dog to believe there is something to fear) or the dog is so protective of its parent that it spends the whole exam time trying to keep me away from the owner. When the owners aren't in the room, the dog drops its guard, is able to go "off-duty," and can relax.

Another reason for taking pets away from the owners is because some of the things we do are yucky. I once had a client who was a cop and a deer hunter, so I figured he could handle any kind of gore. He nearly passed out when I drew blood from his Beagle's leg vein. Then there is the owner who insists on "helping" you hold a difficult animal, especially a freaked-out cat. No matter how many times I ask, then tell, then ORDER someone to keep back, inevitably, they stick their hands in at the wrong time and then get bitten or scratched. Fear of injury to my client (and the resulting lawsuit) drives a lot of my "take the animal in the back" approach.

Just some thoughts. Keep on blogging!

~Kathi (aka, KatDoc)

Kathi July 9th, 2007 08:34:00 PM

KatDoc,

If I'm not allowed in the exam room with my dog, he doesn't go and we don't stay.

Gil. July 9th, 2007 08:37:00 PM

It's frustrating when client don't, or won't, realize that if your dog bites you during an exam (unlikely though it may seem), the vet/staff/clinic are legally liable for YOUR injuries. Most people aren't the litigous type, but we just can't take the risk. It's a crappy position to be in, having to tell owners that they can't come to the back room for procedures or that they need to let the assistant hold their pet for the exam, but that's how it has to be for our rears to be covered. For every pet that does fine w/owners restraining or in the room, there are just as many, if not more, that don't - and an improper hold by the owner could end up getting everyone injured. It's just a fact of vet med that animals don't know that needle jabs and invasive exams are for their own good - and they react accordingly. Very rarely, however, have we asked clients to actually leave the room - only when it's clear that the pet is owner-protective-aggressive, and then it's pretty much the owner leaves, or their pet doesn't get examined. From the assitant's point of view, I simply don't make enough money to risk getting torn up if the situation can be avoided. And if the client doesn't trust the vet/staff enough to step out for a minute, then they should probably find another provider anyway, IMHO.
As for the small breeds, I feel the same way as some of you guys do - every time I've been bitten or had a near bite, it's been a mi-pin, chihuahua, daschund, etc. The big guys can do more damage, but they're usually a little slower and easier to restrain. I hate restraining yorkies and such, too - nothing to hold onto, and such tiny bones! At least I can throw my weight on the big guys if need be and know I'm not going to cause any injuries, if done properly.
For those of you w/cats, I can't emphasize enough how the absence of loud noises, barking dogs, etc., can do wonders for patient behavior in the clinic. I once worked at a cats-only clinic and could not believe the difference - I much prefer for my own cats that setting as opposed to the typical one.

anna July 9th, 2007 10:09:00 PM

I got a new vet recently, highly recommended in the community.

What floored me (no pun intended) is that all the vets in this practice don't lift my relatively small dog on to their exam table, but rather get down on the floor to examine the dog! (my dog is pretty docile by the way)

If you're a vet and your knees can handle it, I highly recommend it. It made me feel way more comfortable with the vets, my dog was way more comfortable too.

Larry July 9th, 2007 10:11:00 PM

Agadore's such a good boy... he will do anything for treats...and our vet ALWAYS has treats. Beaner can be a handful. Not mean, just hyper and that ever-lovin' pitbull tail!

Back in my quarter horse days, the first time the vet whipped out a twitch, I thought THERE AIN'T NO WAY! THAT'S BARBARIC. Lasted about 5 minutes, during which the vet showed the proper technique for applying the twitch. Not something anyone enjoyed, but it was necessary to get the job done and maintain a modicum of safety.

Again, it's about trust. I trust my vet to use her good judgement when applying any necessary restraints.

agadore's mama July 10th, 2007 12:25:00 AM

Someone who doesn't know that animals behave differently away from the owner doesn't know animals.

I worked at a grooming salon as a bather for over a year. Anytime an animal was being difficult while the owner was present, there was always that fear in the back of my mind that something I do might be mistaken for treating the pet too harshly, when it is all done to keep both the pet and us safe. Likewise, it was a source of endless frustration when the owner insisted on holding the pet but could not do it properly because s/he did not want to be too "mean".

Safety is number one priority. At work, dogs who bit were muzzled. Cats were scruffed. While it's hard in practice, rationally we know it's not worth the risk just to make an impression on the owner that one is nice to Fluffy and Fifi. It always stings in a personal way that such a superficial thing is more important to clients than concern for our safety.

Agnes July 10th, 2007 12:48:00 AM

kelli with the shibas:

isnt it insane? i have never met a shiba who was agreeable for a nail trim. we have perhaps, 2 that come into the salon that are a smidge less hysterical than the other shiba regulars, and these ones usually get all four paws taken care of. the rest of them go through every kind of gymnastics they can think of, screaming the whole way. its even worse when we take them to the back to complete the job... no customer likes hearing the screech of a shiba getting it's nails trimmed... it sounds like we're hacking through their legs with butter knives or something!!!

charity July 10th, 2007 02:19:00 AM

There are the opposite cases as well. My horse, Gabrielle, would go through the electric sliding doors at Cornell, stand for the ultrasound, allow shots, etc as long as she could see me. When I walked behind her to see the ultrasound, she tried to go through the restraints.

One of our dogs, a wee little yorkie, only does shots with dignity if I'm holding her. She used to be worse, and would try to bite anyone holding her (she had a major fear of anything metal touching her body- metal combs, nailclippers, clamps, paperclips...). After alot of desensitization (playing scrabble or watching TV while petting your dog with your hand, then hand plus paperclip, then hand plus metal comb,.. etc, and so forth) and I can clip her toenails and get her shots without eerily unearthly screeching and teeth.

I used to help at a dog grooming shop in HS, and the breeds I dreaded (for general tendency towards nippyness etc) was chows, min poodles, and pomeranians. Give me a nippy chihuahua anyday over some of the less than perfectly behaved examples of those other breeds!

Jenn July 10th, 2007 02:26:00 AM

I do a little horse hoof trimming. Jenn's comments aside, most horses are FAR more well-behaved when the owner is nowhere in the picture, so I'm not surprised that most dogs and cats are too.

Deanna July 10th, 2007 09:05:00 AM

Not all Chihuahuas are bad! >:(

Mine is a dream, the Techs trip over themselves to greet her and who gets to go in the exam room. She IS a long-coat, and terribly mellow......and she is very dignified (though clearly unhappy) in the Vet office and on the exam table. She 'puts on teh brakes' about halfway down the street as we are heading for the Vet! But, this little 7 pound dog had been poked and prodded more than most (she had eye surgery at 6 months from slicing her eyelid open in a field of dune grass) so maybe she just knows to stay calm and it will be over soon. My Vet is great with her, and often times I catch him giggling at her little face (which clearly reads 'miserable'!).

Also, I read in 'Chihuahuas for Dummies' that you MUST handle their little paws from day one.....Over and and over and get them used to the sensation. So, from the day I got her I did this. When I clip her nails (every Sunday night) it takes 2 mintues and she sits on my lap like Winnie the Pooh. Snip Snip and I'm done (her nails are white/clear so it's easy).

Amy in Cambridge July 10th, 2007 09:09:00 AM

One more thing - a lot of small/tiny dog owners are anxious at the Vet's office because a lot, though not all, Vets could care less that they are dosing your dog with the same vaccine amount for a Collie. Countless small dogs have died from improper vaccine quantities, especially rabies. I had it out with my Vet at first because he said "the dosage is for puppies under 30 pounds" and I thought "are you kidding me? She's a 3 pound puppy! That that is 10X what she can hadle, it could kill her!" We've not had that problem again.............Vaccine season is a very anxious time, indeed.

Amy in Cambridge July 10th, 2007 09:15:00 AM

I definately don't like that at my vet they always insist on putting my 90 lb. dog up on to this mechanically lifting table thingy for exams. He hates it. He's an anxious dog and having to stand still on this slipperly metal surface while it then moves upwards and makes weird mechanical sounds, and then he's like suspended 3 feet above the ground--it makes exams really difficult and I don't know why they can't just examine him on the ground. He's not a small dog, you can easily do most of an exam on him just bending over a bit.

The last time he was in it was for a back injury and instead of just putting him on the ground where he would have been perfectly agreeable to have his back manipulated, they insisted on getting an army of techs in to the room to hold him down and lift up his back end (he kept wanting to sit down because he was really disconcerted about being above the level of the floor). It made what could have been only a mildly irksome experience into a really traumatizing experience for him.

I can understand putting small dogs and cats up on to a table for exams, but a 90 lb. bloodhound mix? That seems really silly.

cressida July 10th, 2007 12:18:00 PM

I'm with you, cressida.

When my 90 pound GSD was weeks from dying of renal failure, an emergency vet insisted on having him hoisted onto a slippery metal table for exam, then she and her tech walked off and left me alone with a weak, trembling dog in danger of falling at any moment. There was no way I could lift him down myself but repeated shouts for help evidently didn't get through the closed door. I have never been so upset and furious in my life. Never again will any dog of mine be examined on a table, not even if he doesn't mind the slippery surface and could leap up there on his own.

Gil. July 10th, 2007 02:13:00 PM

I love that my vet gets on the ground with my dogs.

About nail trimming, my dog was called a "wild man" by one of the other vets in the practice that I go to. The first time they cut his nails, it took three vet techs to do it. Once they started using the dremel on his nails, they started calling him an angel.

Julie July 11th, 2007 10:12:00 PM

LMAO @ the comments about Shibas. My parents have one and she hates her nails being trimmed as well. She screams as if her legs were being cut off with a rusty butter knife. The breeder she came from had problems with her Shibas doing the same thing.

As for how my vet handles my pets, it all depends on which one she is seeing at the time.

Mojo (our newbie) is coddled, hugged, kissed and told how cute he is while I complain that he has too many toes. He's got 7 on his right front foot and 6 on his left. All of them have nails and since he's only 18 weeks old, he take full advantage of those extra claws to run up my back or climb my legs like a tree. *rolls eyes*

Tool develops a instant attitude as soon as we bring him through the door, however, less restraint works better with him than using a death grip. The only time they need to scruff him is when they cut his nails. He does best with a towel over his head and somebody gently holding his rear feet so he can't bunny kick somebody in the face.

Taz gives her the "I'm going to bite you!!" look, but has never followed through with his threat as he knows she won't put up with his attitude. Again, less restraint works best regardless of what they are doing to him.

With the exception of the birds, none of them need alot of restraint. The birds need to be held a certain way to have their beaks and nails done, but even they get spoken to while she's doing what she needs to do and all of them, regardless of their attitudes get a kiss on the head and praise for being well behaved.

There is a catch though, as there usually is. If Taz or Tool are being held by anybody that shows any type of fear, they will act up or out. Taz will put on a display that would make a person think he was going to snap their nose off and Tool has the power to show all of his teeth in less than a second when placed in front of a person that backs off from the "warning" hisses he gives.

Needless to say, when I have to bring either one of them in, I make sure I know who is on when I make the appointment.

When I brought Tool in for his yearly last year, it was 20 minutes too long because the newbie tech (she has since quit) was terrified to go near him or put a hand on him. The vet that he saw is a great lady, but she too let his noise interfere with getting the exam done. Nor Taz or Tool can be handled that way. A person has to approach both of them with a "matter of fact" attitude or they'll take ful advantage of the entire situation. Telling them as much lead to a look of "You don't know what you're talking about!" so I let them do it their way although if they had just taken my advice the noise and dirty looks would have stopped as soon as they started.

This year when Tool goes in, I'm going to make sure that he sees my vet ( not her releif vet) so that I'm not there all night. Taz only sees my vet anyway, so there's no issues there.

Stacy July 12th, 2007 08:49:00 AM

As a vet tech, I've found the most difficult dogs to hold are Pugs. They are like trying to hold onto a greased football! Love 'em, though. All the ones I've seen are have been nice dogs, just very wiggly and round.

Maybe this is a good place to gently ask clients to refrain from pressing your kitty or little dog close to your chest while we are trying to do an exam. At our clinic we generally don't have a problem if people want to hold their pets for us, but please... hold them at least a few inches away from you. We need to be able to get our hands on the pet and we really can't do that if you've got them in bear hug. Thanks!

Marilyn September 2nd, 2007 01:01:00 AM

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