Vet P.O.V. Attorneys and vets and the pro bono conundrum

August 20th, 2007  

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Where does this mentality come from that people are entitled to free health care? Judging from your blog, and not to go off on a rant against socialized medicine, this entitlement apparently seems to apply to their pets as well. It's never even crossed my mind not to pay for services rendered by my vet. I know it costs money to run a business (not to mention most vets are probably paying off their student loans just like I am), and just because said business needs to make a profit doesn't make them inherently evil.

In the end, these freeloaders drive up the costs for the rest of us. Unfortunately, denial of service probably is not an option (either legally or ethically), and litigating is probably more hassle then it's worth. However, maybe you could hit up a barrister for some of that pro bono time, or at least find one with a dog and arrange a quid pro quo.

Chip August 20th, 2007 10:23:00 AM

Chip- have you ever worked for any animal rescue group? Have you ever taken the time to nurse a liter of kittens back to life or to take in a litter of puppies, cleaning up their poop and pee 24-7, just to find them good homes instead of leaving them out in the desert?

The world of animals and animal care is a completely different 'animal' then the human world. Before you curse those of us who on occasion are blessed with a freebie appointment- take some time to curse those who create the NEED for the freebie appointments.

Right now- I have probably my 30th litter of kittens that I've dealt with because SOMEONE decided not to alter Mom and Dad. This litter- it was found on the street, one kitten already crushed by a car. I lost a kitten last night due to severe dehydration/diarrhea. I'm treating it, best as I can, at home- I may need to call my vet on this one, though. Hopefully, I'll be able to just get some antibiotics called in for them- worse case scenario (hopefully), I'll bring the litter in and he'll charge me for meds and waive the exam fee.

What am I getting out of THIS? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. I'm not getting a pet, I'm not getting any SLEEP, and I assure you- I'm not enjoying fighting for these kittens' lives. Okay- I do enjoy the rare occasion when a adopter actually emails me to update me on the baby- but otherwise, I'm not profitting nor reaping the benefits of fostering animals.

The animal world- there's a lot done out of love, for free. From fostering to working for adoption events to vets who do 'pro bono' work for their already strapped clients. I'm sorry if that seems like such a horrible thing for you. Me- I think it'd be horrible if vets were completely unwilling to 'give a little' when they can.

I'm sure you were referring to the people who pop in and then simply don't pay- but your post kinda lumped everyone who has ever taken a free appointment for whatever reason into the same group.

Trish August 20th, 2007 03:45:00 PM

Uh, you went way off in left field on that one Trish. I was not referring to your situation. Animal rescue groups are providing a service. I'm talking specifically about the people who bring their pets into the clinic and utilize the vet's services with no intention of paying. I thought that was pretty obvious, but I guess not.

I understand some people have financial obligations that make it hard, but that should be worked out with the vet prior to the appointment/procedure and not at the end "Oh so sorry, I don't have the money to pay you". Most vets I've known are empathetic and would be willing to work with a client under such circumstances. There also may be other low cost options available that the vet could inform the client of (we have free spay/neuter service here in Miami-Dade and reduced cost vaccinations).

If the vet is willing to take on cases (such as yours) pro bono, that is their choice. I don't begrudge them or you. I'm talking about freeloaders. You take your animal in to the vet and don't pay, that's theft of service. It's criminal behavior. I've got to go have the oil changed in my truck tomorrow, but I don't think I want to pay for it. I mean after all it's a necessary service, why should I have to pay, right?!

Chip August 21st, 2007 10:58:00 AM

I agree that the situation where someone walks in and uses the vet, but doesn't pay without mentioning to the vet that they cannot pay are freeloaders. However- that's only one part of a 'free service' from a vet (and actually not a LEGAL one- but it happens!).

I'm just saying there are a lot of situations in which a vet may CHOOSE to offer free services on occasion that does not make an individual a freeloader. They definitely don't CHOOSE clients who don't pay- that just seems to happen from time to time.

Trish August 21st, 2007 02:14:00 PM

Great post at the start, but pro bono isn't just someone skipping out on their bill. At least the pro bono a lawyer gets credit for isn't. It is usually legal services provided to someone with income of 125% of the poverty level or less. That is $25,000 for a family of four.

When you talked about pro bono I was thinking of going into a low-income neighborhood and providing free vet care to pets or possibly participating in a low-cost ($5) spay/neuter clinic.

Tracy August 21st, 2007 10:34:00 PM

Tracy: We do that, too, but that's not the norm. We tend to just do freebies for those we know who can't afford it or for strays who find their way to us independently. (No hospital I know of doesn't do free work for random strays.) That counts, too, doesn't it? You're right, bill skippers don't really count (though we should write them off). But they're not the norm, either.

Dr. Patty Khuly August 22nd, 2007 10:50:00 AM

Most vets I know do lots of work for shelters or individuals who do rescue at reduced or no cost. And they are pretty good about waiting for $ from these folks.

For the individual however, its pay at time of service which is fair if the person can afford it. At least in the big city the days of payment plans to the vet are hard to find. Our vet office specifically says that you must pay in full (and if you can't they'll refer you to a place to get a loan). I do think that a bit cold. But I imagine that if you are long time client they would probably bend the rules.

I do wonder, however, if some animals don't get treatment they need because the owners know they can't pay in full and they don't want to have to resort to something like writing a check they know will bounce.

2CatMom August 23rd, 2007 01:00:00 PM

Bless you, Dr K , for doing the pro bono work. And for caring when others should, but don't. This is why you are a vet.... it's not the money...it's your heart. And you will be paid back--- call it karma, whatever. Good deeds don't go un noticed.....

Agadore's momma August 24th, 2007 03:35:00 AM

2CatMom: That's a defensive reaction. Vets are um... notorious soft touches. So much so that they often develop a protective layer of scar tissue, and a hard-nosed office manager, to mask that tendency to the point that they can stay in business.

Also, they'd rather be nice to the people that deserve it, and honestly try to pay. But the world is full of whiny obnoxious selfish people who will try to take advantage of any perceived weakness to explain why they shouldn't pay for treatment because it didn't achieve the effects of Ponce de León's fountain.

And giving in to one of these time-wasters just to get them out the door feels like cowardice and a lot of vets beat themselves up about it. The problem is that discouraging one of them takes an extremely cold front.

But it still happens. Vets have "help me stop discounting" support groups, with strategies as intricate as any diet plan.

And even they don't try to stop being unbelievably generous to groups like animal sanctuaries that they respect.

I do a bit of wildlife rescue on the side, which has got me a lot of deals. But I have a regular, fairly well-paying day job, so I've had fights with my vet over bills - with me complaining that they're too low!

Herper August 24th, 2007 07:35:00 AM

I have a wonderful vet and, after reading this entry, realized that I have asked for discounts too. In my defense, it wasn't my money I was trying to save since I work with a dachshund rescue group and my fosters were both heartworm positive and heartworm treatment is very expensive! The group has two vets who regularly give discounts but it would have cost me more in time and transportation to get to them since they are across town (Houston). He asked what we paid at the other vets' office and matched it and it must have just barely covered his costs. After getting to know him, it's not a surpise that he will work with anyone on vet care. This man won't leave a dog on the side of the road because then he loses sleep worrying about them.

Mary, a dachsie mom

The Dachsies August 24th, 2007 12:54:00 PM

Harper - I hear you and agree. My only point is that there are good people who will pay but just can't pay it all at once. And they are loathe to go against the rules. So what happens when their animals get sick? Do they put off care because they can't pay for it all at once, or suffer the humiliation of being berated by the office staff? I don't know. But like everything, there are always unintended consequences. For every real deadbeat you scare away or scare into paying, is some honest but hard up person's pet not getting the care needed?

I've been there. Somewhere else on this site I think I told the story about my cat with the benign but invasive ear tumor. This was when I was a student living on a stipend. The cost of the care was the equivalent of 20% of my annual stipend, and I was barely getting by. I could have easily qualified for food stamps if I had applied. I didn't have a credit card with a big enough limit to put the bill on. If the vet hadn't allowed me to pay it off ($25/mo for more than 2 years) I don't know what I would have done.

2CatMom August 24th, 2007 10:43:00 PM

Herper: I had to laugh at the "help me stop discounting" support groups for vets. I can see us all sitting in a circle: "My name is Patty and I'm a discounter" and then saying the Serenity Prayer at the end.

As to your low price-guilt: My sister suffered the same at one point. After her beloved brain-damaged and pathologically aggressive Hudson had to be euthanized, she established "The Hudson Foundation" for her vet's discriminating application to any needy client's bill. Now that's vet love!

Dr. Patty Khuly August 25th, 2007 08:04:00 AM

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