Vet P.O.V. Fine dining and the fear of French canine kisses

October 17th, 2007  

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I love this! (Do I always say that on this blog??) I wanted to have a t-shirt made which says,"A Day Without Common Sense Is Like A Day Without Sunshine" and wear it everywhere, and it is this issue which so provoked me before.

I use a service dog, and she is clearly identified as such when we go out. I've all but given up eating out unless I am with friends who substitute for my Libby because of the reactions we get when trying to eat in a restaurant. I've had hostesses try to refuse to seat us- I have to get out my little card with the ADA laws printed on it, and argue, and the manager of most restaurants will eventually let me in, but the fight is just not worth it on many days. There are times when I go out with her just because I feel like I shouldn't give up, but there are other times when I don't want to be the Disability Rights poster girl. And then, comments from the other diners range from those who insist they cannot eat because of how near my dog will be to their food. I always tell them that in that case they should not consider bringing their plate and sitting under my table, although that doesn't exactly win friends. Other people have said that if they wanted to bring their dogs, tehy could just buy a service dog jacket too. Yet other diners are kind and have said they really wish they could bring their dogs out to dine with them as well, and almost every one of those has a story about being in Europe and seeing dogs and owners eating happily in restaurants. I would love to see that happen here. Selfishly, I would like this so that my dog would become unremarkable, but I also find it ridiculous that people worry about germs- when we can't see what happens in the kitchens at all. As you point out, I am much more worried by food/food prep than by being close to a dog during supper.

This was a great column, and I hope everyone emails a link to a congressman.

Cindy October 17th, 2007 01:39:00 PM

I spent some time in france (16 weeks) mostly in Paris or Dijon.

I did see alot of dogs, but I don't think I ever saw a patron's dog sitting in a dining establishment under a table, but I saw plenty dining on the patio or open air seating.
There's a bar in the district near the Pantheon that had a resident dog that I adored. It was run by an older lady who looked well preserved and smoked cigarettes in a long, elegant, cigarette holder. The dog, a mastiff, was always in residence. The bar is Le Crocodile.

Jenn October 17th, 2007 01:46:00 PM

Dr. Patty!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hurray!

I heard Ms. Shibley on NPR a couple of weeks ago and wished I'd had a chance to call in. Her arguments were so weak and made no sense.
Why do I have to sit next to a child with bubbling, green slime running down his face as he climbs down out of his chair and comes to my table and touches who knows what else along the way? Why is that allowed? And for those that say "not cool to compare dogs to kids"? Well, when the discussion of hygiene is on the line, I consider them both in the cross hairs. I'm much more likely to get sick from a kid than my dog, I'm certain of that. I can't stand that germy kids can go wherever they please, but they do. Ok for a kid to walk around Home Depot with a poopy diaper and lord knows what on his hands? Sure. But I get asked to leave because my dog, in my arms, is sound asleep and bothering no one. I don't go to that HD anymore, I go to the one where they greet her and give her cookies. I put my money where my dog is!
I don't always take her with me, but if I'm at the park or walking around the city and want to shop on the way home, I should be able to. Or, if Petco is next door to the Target I need to run into, I don't see the big deal. Since I have a well-behaved dog- 9 times out of 10, someone wants to pet her or talk to her and she makes them smile. But once in a while it's a problem and when I ask what the policy is, people get very heated very quickly (which leads me to also believe this is just good, old pashioned prejudice) and I make note of it. I agree that it should be up to the business owner and not regulated by policy. That way, poorly behaved dogs could easily be asked to leave.
As for restaurants, I would LOVE to be able to take her. Right now we take her when we eat at outdoor cafe seating, which most places seem fine with. But I've never come across one that allows dogs inside. What a dream that would be! Lucky for me I live in a city where 99.9% of the shopping not only allows dogs, but they have little bowls of water and biscuits. Around here, I find it's the big box stores (thus, tied in more tightly with the retail lobbies and insurance issues?) that have "dog policies". Oh well, it keeps more money in the pocket of the small business owner.

Amy in Somerville October 17th, 2007 01:51:00 PM

You said it, Amy! Why do we have to put up with other people's sick kids running around contaminating everything but I'm not allowed to take my well-trained, well-behaved sweet and beautiful GSD? In my case not only do we have to fight the "Oh my God, what's a dog doing in here," but we're also met with a look of absolute fear on some faces. Sadly, GSDs were stereotyped as a breed to be afraid of long before Pitt Bulls came into the limelight...

Many a time my fiance and I have threatened to dress her up and tell everyone she's a very hairy child and take her with us anyhow. We just can't figure out how to overcome the long, beautiful tail!

kim October 17th, 2007 04:49:00 PM

WhenI was in veterinary school in Ithaca NY, one of the local bars DID allow you to bring your dog in. They didn't serve dinner, of course, but they did serve "bar food." My beagle LOVED the placeand eventually got excited just hearing the name. Most of the time, people did not mind her at all (probably because there were other dogs there too) but once when I was seated at the bar near entrance, a girl who was coming in saw her (Kira was sitting in my lap, but facing the entry way to greet people. She was very people oriented!) and shrieked in fear. Kira hadn't touched her, and certainly didn't understand what was going on. The girl left, and the bouncer shrugged, and gave Kira a pat.

DrSteggy October 17th, 2007 07:40:00 PM

DrSteggy - I had a lady shriek in fear and cross to the other side ofthe street as I was walking my 7# dog.....on a leash. I don't get it.

The chat room for my breed is very active on this subject.....we definitely unite and write letters and make sure we discuss store policies and situations that have come up. That's really all you can do......aside from writing letters to congress.

*waiting patiently*

Amy in Somerville October 18th, 2007 08:49:00 AM

Oh how I would love to see more restaurants like Europe here. I saw dogs in restaurants all the time when I was overseas. It was fabulous. They were all well behaved waiting patiently under the tables. All shapes ans sizes. It was heaven.

I live on the coast of Maine and some places do allow small dogs inside. Mostly if they can fit into a bag on the owners lap.

I think someone would make a killing opening a cafe that allows patrons to bring their dogs in while they ate. I would certainly go.

I think more service dogs should be seen in public in all areas. So pick days that you feel up to it and fight the good fight! It isn't just for you, but for all who come after you too. We can't change others if we don't put ourselves out there to teach them.

Marie October 18th, 2007 09:25:00 AM

Well, I am going to be one of the lucky ones soon. I local lady that has owned a 'whole foods' pet shop for years is soon to be opening a resturant, dogs welcome! I can't wait! If you live in the Houston area check out 'Natural Pawz' in the near future (I don't remember the name of the resturant). And the hygene thing I can't get is, what is the difference between bringing my dog, or me going in somewhere covered in dog hair after just gettin a big sloppy kiss from each before leaving the house? ;-)

Cardimom October 18th, 2007 12:26:00 PM

Totally jealous Cardimom!

I know that here, it is literally in the health and safety code that animals are not allowed inside establishments that serve food. So, it's not really up to the restaurant owners. Most allow you to sit with your dog at the outdoor seating, but not inside. Several businesses I've talked to would allow dogs in a heartbeat (mostly the pubs, no shortage ofthose in Boston) but it's against the law. So, for me, it's a bigger fish to fry. But, I persist. In the meantime, I will make a note of states that do not have these stupid laws..... ;) I do love Maine!!!!!

Amy in Somerville October 18th, 2007 01:06:00 PM

What I think is interesting is that the idea of eating in the same room as a dog bothers some people, enough that it's law in some places that you cannot do so in restaurants. I eat with my two big hairy dog laying beside me at my own dinner table every night an have never once gotten sick because of them. The food poisoning I got from the not-dog-friendly Applebee's on the other hand...

An I'm sure I expose everyone I've ever met to all manner of doggy (and kitty, and birdy, and fishy) germs since I cannot leave my house without being covered in fur and feathers. Really, if their fear is pet diseases, I'd wish they'd realize that I'm more of a risk that my pets since I'm more likey to shake your hand and transmit all sorts of human-specific diseases to you than my pet ever is to pass something zoonotic along.

lindabcs October 18th, 2007 03:23:00 PM

thank you!!

i've long wondered how it is that well-known celebs are able to take their pocket-pups everywhere, but I get shooed out of walmart and told to leave my 6 month old silky in the car. I live in Las Vegas, NV and this was in the beginning of August. It was about 2pm. I was shocked when they suggested the car thing... it's at least 110 degrees outside, i only want to buy a SMARTwater, and Zorro is firmly held in my arms, wearing his harness, complete with ID and rabies tag. at the pet supply store i work for we immediately start paging customers if we see a pet left in the car, and we don't stop til we either find the owner or we call animal control. no one has suffered a broken window yet, but it can't be fun to be paged out to your car and find an outraged group of bystanders standing sweaty and indignant around your car!

walmart ended up letting me buy my water and i was walked to the exit and asked not to bring him in with me next time. I very politely pointed out that there was NO sign at the door saying specifically 'no pets allowed'. conveniently, there was a woman walking in as i walked out with her messy toddler harnessed to a leash (those are somewhat popular here. the leash idea, i mean, not the toddler). I looked at the manager and said, quite pointedly, "at least i was holding mine."

charity October 18th, 2007 05:07:00 PM

I see this as a bigger issue than being able to take our dogs out to eat. When I was a kid dogs were allowed in most establishments except grocery stores and restaurants. Now there are very few places people can take their dogs, mostly as a result of insurance and liability issues. One result is poorly behaved dogs. There is very little motivation to teach dogs to be good citizens if they can never go anywhere.

Linda H October 18th, 2007 05:07:00 PM

I am not so sure I would like to see this happen in Australia. People here already take their dogs everywhere with them. To every outdoor event where dogs are allowed. They fight with each other, trip up the other visitors, growl at people, bark, and some end up off leash and making a nuisance of themselves.

Well trained dogs, no problem. But they seem to be in short supply. Maybe the act of taking them everywhere with you means they are spoilt, or will destroy the house or yard if you leave them at home.

Robin October 19th, 2007 01:24:00 AM

Robin: This might be a little bit of a sideline but I just watched the amazingly timeless Rolling Stones documentary, Gimme Shelter. The last half of the movie takes place in a huge open tract of land where the Stones are set to play a free concert in 1969. Incredibly, there are dogs eveywhere--unleashed and seemingly lost as their humans misbehave in countless ways. I was struck by how permissive our culture was back then, shocked by the youth rebellion no one knew how to tame. For me, the dogs come off as the influence of sanity in a drug-addled world. Your comment reminded me that it's almost never about the dogs...it's the humans we really need protection from.

Dr. Patty Khuly October 19th, 2007 08:42:00 AM

I agree Dr Patty. Misbehaving dogs are 99% of the time due to the owner, not the dog.

Robin~ "Maybe the act of taking them everywhere with you means they are spoilt, or will destroy the house or yard if you leave them at home." That is a tremendous leap in logic. Maybe the reason people take their dogs everywhere with them is because they enjoy their dogs?! I spend a great deal of my free time with my dog. I didn't get a dog to leave it couped up in the house while I galavant all over town. I can't speak for everyone, but if I did leave my dog at home she would just go to sleep. She's never detroyed anything.

Amy in Somerville October 19th, 2007 09:19:00 AM

I live in a tiny midwestern town and occasionally bring my dog to the local tavern for a drink after her walk (beer for me - water for her!) The owners are great and enjoy playing with the dogs that come in. (Sharky will bet on anything so doggie races were popular on Tuesday afternoons for a few weeks LOL!) In all our visits we've only had one complaint, and nobody liked the whiny little twerp anyway so they asked us to stay longer with the hope that the dog would make him leave sooner. I agree that misbehaving pets shouldn't be allowed to go to places like this, but in my experience, well-behaved pet are a pleasure for everyone.

Jen H October 19th, 2007 11:19:00 AM

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