Yep, it’s time again for the chronic vet industry debate I’ve hosted on this blog many times before. Again, it’s about us girls in white with the pet hair on our labcoats and the stethoscopes fashionably entwined ‘round our necks. And this time, no wringing of hands or gnashing of teeth—I promise.
As a friendly reminder, let me first point out that women now outnumber men in the veterinary profession. Furthermore, vet school student enrollments in the US are such that women take up almost three quarters of the available seats.
Yessss…we women rock! But wait…not on the hospital ledger books. There, we plummet—that is, relative to our male counterparts’ earned income.
Based on the latest study on this issue, the difference between the veterinary sexes is a staggering 30% in annual income. Even when adjusted for experience and practice ownership status (for which women still lag behind men), we’re still at a huge income disadvantage (according to study after study). This means than men (across all fields in vet medicine) on average make $42,000 more than us.
It seems fairly cut and dry, but as with other hot-button issues (think global warming), there are plenty of incentives for those who would benefit from disputing these findings to do so. And so we keep studying this issue—with no solutions posited, even as the signs point to further deterioration in women’s income.
Some critics of these stats counter that the evidence is multi-factorial and does not account for lower female work hours and the cumulative experience lost therein. Moreover, it doesn’t factor in the reality that fewer work hours per week means fewer dedicated clients due to more frequent unavailabilty…thus less value…thus less income.
I’d agree if it weren’t for the gender income disparity stats that exist across all vet disciplines and all professions—not to mention my personal findings. Sure, I’m a sample size of one, but that doesn’t mean my own experience counts for nothing.
Here’s a slice of my own life for your consideration:
I’ve seen vets back out on an ownership transfer deal (a practice buyout) more than once, only to acquiesce to a male’s offer at the same price. I’ve been subjected to cuts in work hours, in spite of my higher-than-theirs production stats (I infer that’s because of my female single-parent’s perceived unreliability relative to a man’s). Once, even, I was “laid off”…on the exact day I was due to deliver a baby. I was thus unable to collect my maternity leave income. Shall I go on?
Sure, who knows whether any of these were gender-related. I can make a story for their all having been sound business decisions. But their collective presence—and the anecdotes of my female colleagues—make me think otherwise.
Women in any field know they’re safer when they don’t make noise about these issues. And women vets are as silent as they come—yours truly included, were it not for this blog. After all, I sought no legal action, even on the maternity leave case. No whining is something we’re all taught to value highly in vet school.
In case you think this is just a veterinary issue, consider that women’s salaries, across the board, are almost as low, compared to men’s, as they were in 1971. Sure, there are a lot more women in the workforce, but the disparity is impressive, nonetheless.
That’s not hand-wringing or teeth-gnashing. That’s just plain thought-provoking.
Add Comment23 Comments
Ya know, Dr. K., I ran into similar things as a business executive and my answer was that I needed to control my own destiny. Thus, I started my own business. :-)
Deanna October 5th, 2007 09:44:00 AM
Deanna: I must say that it's one of the reasons I decided to do business consulting (which I still do on the side, though I almost never talk about it on this blog) and why I write. My writing? I control it. I say who gets to buy it and I set the terms. It doesn't win me huge sums (or pay my bills) but IT'S ALL MINE.
Dr. Patty Khuly October 5th, 2007 10:00:00 AM
Okay, somewhat off topic here...I can't particularly comment on the differentiation between how male and female vets are treated, as I am personally an attorney. However, having recently reviewed a vet's employment contract for a friend (coincidentally a female friend), I can tell you that vets, in general, do not receive a lot of the benefits, consideration, and protections that I would expect to see in even the most employer-favoring ofcontracts among my own profession, or that of a human doctor's. I was shocked by what my friend was being asked to acceed to (in the most glaring provision she was supposed to assume liability for the nonpayment of her patients!!). She told me that this was just how things are done among vets...that she had a vet acquaintance who ahd been working 2 years without a contract...without guarantees or sick leave... Your "firing" on your delivery date makes me sick. If something like that happened to one of the lady lawyers in my offices...well...we'd be gearing up for the inevitable lawsuit to follow. I don't understand it. My state is apparently begging for vets (my friend took all of 3 weeks full of interviews to find a job), but they're expected to bend over backwards for their employers. Why is this? And if it weren't for me, I think my friend might have just signed the agreement without any review by a legal professional. I don't get it. Are vets lawyer shy?
Becky October 5th, 2007 10:20:00 AM
Normally studies and discussions about gender disparity in the sciences fascinate me, but I'm afraid that this time I turned off and stopped reading when I saw that vet men make MY WHOLE SALARY more than vet women. My disgust at how teachers are treated wouldn't let me go any further.
zandperl October 5th, 2007 10:41:00 AM
Zandperl: It's true. Women make about $80K (the mean) while males about $120K. Consider that we get few to no benefits with that figure (I pay $600 a month for health insurance). But still, that's crazy compared to most any teacher's salary. Considering that the average garbage collector in my area makes $50K+, I think the issue you raise is one of prioritization of societal value. I also feel very strongly that the feminization of professions (such as yours) gives society license to discriminate against women--across the board. I'm with you. I'm disgusted.
Dr. Patty Khuly October 5th, 2007 11:08:00 AM
Oh, Becky, don't even get me started. Your friend is *so* not alone. We have precious few protections in our positions. Everything in the vet industry is skewed towards the practice owner--everything! Practice owners make 50-60% more than non-practice owners. They can practically hire and fire at will. And incredibly restrictive non-compete clauses are the norm (though the courts are chipping away at these steadily). My own experience (almost ten years ago) highlights the supremacy of the practice owner in vet medicine as well as the few resources vets have when dealing with such scumbags. Vet medicine is so decentralized (so many small practices, so many small players) that vets who know no better are practically the rule. Moreover, if the community we practice in is relatively small, a bad reputation means the eventual dearth of opportunities. In Miami, the old-boy vet network is still in command. And just look at the American Veterinary Medical Association's officers:
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&...
Think they're really concerned about how these issues go down?
I've never thought so.
Dr. Patty Khuly October 5th, 2007 11:18:00 AM
I think part of the solution is for more women to become practice owners. We have one all female cat practice in Chicago and its fabulous. I don't know how they get around gender discrimination rules, but perhaps their contracts are written with family friendly provisions that males find unappealing. They seem to have lower turnover than most large vet practices, which means that the younger colleagues are probably being treated better than at other practices.
But in this day and age (or even 10 years ago) for someone to get layed off on the day they take maternity leave is a practice looking to get sued. I don't want to be to hard on you, but sometimes, someone has to take a stand - of no one ever does, nothing will change.
If you are an employee (rather than an independent contractor) and the business has more than a total of 50 employees (yes it would have to be a BIG practice) then after one year the employee is covered under FMLA (Family Medical Leave Act) which provides for 12 weeks (without pay) of leave for illness, birth or adoption of a child, or to take care of a sick family member. Unless you are a in a senior position, or the company can demonstrate that business conditions would necessitate your layoff, you are also guarenteed your position (or an equivalent one) upon your return. Some states have their own provisions many cover businesses of any size.
When FMLA was first introduced, (it was the first bill signed by President Clinton) women who took the whole 12 weeks were often considered by the corporate bigwigs not be 'serious' employees. Today's young women takes the whole 12 weeks without thinking twice about it. I'm also seeing many more men using this after they add a baby to the family. And this is a good thing.
2CatMom October 5th, 2007 12:23:00 PM
Feminization of professions is an interesting point that you raise - if you look at the gender breakdown of K-14 teachers (that is, kindergarten through community college, which is what I am) we're overwhelmingly female, while if you look at 4-year colleges and universities they're predominantly male. The message: women in academia merely teach, while men in academia do cutting-edge research. And we're paid accordingly with that viewpoint.
zandperl October 5th, 2007 02:01:00 PM
I was fired from my job at a small family insurance agency (too few employees for FMLA) 15 years ago when I announced we were finally adopting a baby. The first thing the agency owner said was congratulations, and the second thing he said was an order to his son to put a help wanted ad in the paper. Thank God things have change.
Diane October 5th, 2007 05:17:00 PM
1o years ago my position was "down sized" while about to deliver my second baby working as a vet tech. (at a place I had been at since before I was married and had my 1st child) I looked into doing something about it but was told that because the business has less than 25 employees I had no legal recourse. I was able to collect unemployment (initially disputed by my boss) but that was little consolation at the time since it happened right before Christmas. I think that doing something about it is important but sometimes you are to busy just trying to keep your head above water to look as far as needed into that.
I was lucky that it turned into a blessing in disguise. (became a stay at home mom then started my own business) But I find the fact it could be done at all pretty darn sickening. My husband wanted to tar and feather the guy. Some of his other employess quit right after that realizing he really was heartless. (it had been a joke in the office previously) He admitted years later it was a really bad move on his part. Of course he ended up firing my replacement due to incompetence with clients and patients. (great butt kissing only gets you so far) He now refers training clients to me.
Marie October 5th, 2007 08:50:00 PM
I think you said it yourself - if you accept this unacceptable behavior, it will be accepted.
Laura Bennett October 5th, 2007 09:55:00 PM
Eh... my vet is a woman, a practice owner and certainly is not a scumbag.
For the first two years, she carried everything related to the hospital on her own back. Vacation? Day off? Don't think so and she wasn't even on the payroll. He husband is a business so takes care of the books, taxes, ect.
In the 4 years (?) since she has bought her clinic, she has let go of one person. It was a receptionist that didn't want to work the hours she was hired for. The majority of her staff have been with her since day one. The rest of them have come in at various times, including the other vet she hired to take on some hours. The other vet is also a woman, has a new baby that was born in August and is treated like gold. She is part of my vets extended family as this is how she treats her staff.
While I'm sorry you've been treated so poorly and the pay scales in vet medicine in general are not high enough for anybody that has worked for one, but to say that all hospital owners are scumbags that fire people just because they woke up on the wrong side of the bed one morning is not true.
You're in control of your own destiny. If you feel as though you've been mistreated at any hospital, you do have the right to say something about and stand your ground on the issue. The world of vet polictics isn't nearly as bad as it is in some other fields...
Stacy October 6th, 2007 09:17:00 AM
I forgot to add this point...
When corporations start buying out privately run clinics, this is when problems start.
The hospital I worked for was a family run business for years and it was a money maker. I'm talking a multi-million dollar business. Once the owner sold to a corporation, it is no longer a money maker because they screwed with he entire staff, all the clients and changed everything that people knew and loved about the clinic.
That hospital has since been sold to yet another corporation that has just of much a bad reputation as it's former owner and isn't doing any better. Why? Because of corporations are all about greed. They honestly believe that they are capable of taking blood from a stone and have no problem with tossing around their corporate BS in somebodies face as means to make their point.
The original owner ( who is male and has been in the business of vet medicine for over 30 years and is a awesome orthopedic surgeon) is still on staff and will probably never recover the money he sold the clinic for because corporations killed it for him with their bogus policies and general bullshit. He may have been a pain in the ass as a boss sometimes, but I honestly don't think he saw the writing on the wall when he sold the clinic to such people.
My vet got out for this very reason. Yeah, she got hit with a letter stating that she couldn't work within 20 miles of her former second home, but she did it anyway. She did housecalls for over 2 years, got in with another vet as a temporary home until she was able to purchase the clinic she has now which was a privately owned disaster. The vet that owned it previously never treated ear infections, or old cats. Old cats were written off as having "Old cat disease" whatever that means and ear infections were flushed out and nothing else. No meds, just flushed and maybe cleaned out if the mood struck him right that day.
When my vet took over, his clients that stayed thought my vet was a miracle worker because all the ear problems that everybody was having disappeared. As for the "Old Cat disease" most of those cats were untreated diabetics.
The former owner of her clinic has disappeared. I'm hoping that perhaps some of his former clients roasted him and ate him for lunch....
Stacy October 6th, 2007 09:30:00 AM
Stacy: Let me pull my foot way out of my mouth.
"My own experience (almost ten years ago) highlights the supremacy of the practice owner in vet medicine as well as the few resources vets have when dealing with such scumbags."
I was referring to the scumbag in the sentences before (the one who fired me on my due date). I absolutely, in no way, would *ever* generalize like that (though I know how it sounds now that I re-read it).
Even the "good old boys" I get snarky about are mostly my friends. My issue is that the veterinary establishment is something of a problem when it comes to women in the profession, and while most of them mean well, they just dont "get it."
And then there are the scumbags. They exist across all lines of work and ours is not immune to such profession-debasing individuals.
Sorry for the caustic sound of that previous comment!
Dr. Patty Khuly October 6th, 2007 11:02:00 AM
My wife is going to be graduating this next May as a vet. As an 'older' couple, we are looking to start a family fairly soon after she graduates, the clock is ticking. One of the biggest worries we have is finding a practice that is friendly to young vets (willing to teach- without internship), and also friendly to young 'woman' vets- that may or may not get pregnant quickly. With student loans, and little savings, her immediate income becomes increasingly important. Given the probable rarity of these practices, I have been considering starting my own practice, and bringing in more experiences vets who are looking to be part of a practice that is more evenly balanced between life and work- for both men and women.
Tim October 6th, 2007 04:06:00 PM
Tim: Do it! Some of the best practices I've seen have been start-ups (by both men and women) that happened after someone just got fed up at how the practice(s)in their area were treating them. Unortunately, it's an expensive proposition--an untenable one for many of us. If it's within your reach--definitelt go for it.
The truth is, though, there are plenty of hospitals with great opportunities for everyone. It's not as much of a meat market as I'm afraid I led on that it was. Right now I know three practices in my area looking for vets--and two are places where I might actually be willing to work. (And I'm picky after my experiences.)
And then there's the place I work at now. After nine years, I'm still here. I may not get the hours I always want and the pay is less than what I could get elsewhere, but I'm still happy with my choice--for now, anyway.
Dr. Patty Khuly October 6th, 2007 05:41:00 PM
I've been struggling to find a positive way to say this, but maybe your comment above provides entree.
You've got to decide what you're doing here (with your blog, with your writing). Is this just an unusually public vanity diary, or is it serious? It's one thing to come home at the end of the day feeling underpaid and let fly a rant about the system. It's a different thing entirely to write seriously about pay issues.
You've tried in this post to do both and in my view come out intellectually dishonest. When you swept aside the asterisks and doubledaggers that qualified the numbers you quoted you did a real disservice to your readers, who seem to be a mix of diary-cruisers, pet lovers, and people who are seriously interested in your industry. And you did a disservice to the interesting vein of material that's available for you to tap.
There is so much that's interesting lurking in that wage gap. The increasing tendency of veterinary students to say they don't want to be owners. Work/life balance. The economic fate of "trailing spouses", the real fiscal impact of work hours-- what do male owners actually do with the average two-point-something extra weeks worth of time they spend at work each year, and are those activities themselves amplifying the bottom line?
You haven't talked much about what your ambition as a writer is; you might just want to be in the business of telling animal stories. But it seems to me that you're uniquely well positioned to tell stories about the unworkable current economics of companion animal health, what light the solutions to veterinary economics will shed on human health care economics, and the untenable moral positions we find ourselves in as we drift from stewardship models of pet ownership to regarding companion animals as persons.
I think this approach of trying to be both a chatty diarist and a serious commentator is going to limit you in the long run. You've got your tags, which help a little, but maybe a redesign of the page dividing it into chatty and serious sides would help more. Even more importantly, setting aside time to really dig into the issues you want to write seriously about, and disconnecting those posts from the day to day commentaries on your own work experiences, would let you have your cake and eat it too.
Thing One October 6th, 2007 10:38:00 PM
Thing One: I always love that you take an interest in my career. And, yes, I often wonder what I'm really doing when I write what I do--especially when I succumb to turning the filter off in my brain as I did earlier in my comments on this post.
And, yes, I'm addicted to the double daggers and the asterisks. Why? Because in these I admit that 1) I don't have all the answers and 2) I feel strongly about what I do write.
At the heart of your point is the understanding that I try to straddle the line between what's chatty and what's a serious debate--as with the microchip issue or the potentially interesting question of animal sacrifices. The reality is that I haven't the time or the inclination to keep it serious all the time. Instead, I try to give my readers a sense of what issues are percolating in this industry, how vets often feel about their patients and their bosses and their workplaces.
I don't believe I do a disservice to my readers by holding back on the serious stuff or producing an academic bit of writing with footnotes on every major point. The blog's for introducing issues and ideas to those who might not know they exist, for allowing those who feel the same way to commiserate, giving a place for those who would dissent to do so and, yes, for my personal self-indulgence--as you correctly point out. I'm unapologetic on that score, but I do value your opinion on how I can achieve a better balance between what's serious and what's frivolously personal.
Dr. Patty Khuly October 7th, 2007 10:14:00 AM
I'm hoping heartily that the mistreatment you've suffered isn't at your current clinic.
Diana October 7th, 2007 10:33:00 AM
"ThingOne"
I know many vets and i know many veterinary educators, (i am currently studying veterinary medicine) and i can tell you, many and i mean many dont teach as pleasuring as doctor khuly.
I had the privaledge of having her as my animals vet and working for her. I dont think one bit that the way she runs this board will disrupt her future plans.
There is so much the public doesn't know about veterinary medicine, the day-to-day life, the stressed workplace, the personal feelings and the daily gossip. I think that because of all this, it makes Dr. Khulys blog so interesting.
Honestly.... can you really get somewhere with it, or set you back??? And i think that is what you might be establishing when you comment.
Yet, that is the reason i love reading this blog so much. Yes, i do love hearing serious stories and great medical findings but it's also great to hear the things inbetween. Because when it comes down to it, thoes things are what makes a vet a vet, and the practice its practice, like i said before, every practice is diffrent, and yes some gossip may not be to everyones cup of tea, but it still is a factor in the Dolittler.com because it is about Dr.khulyand not only for the medical aspects but also for the curious and just pleasureful reading.
Dr.Khuly, I truly enjoy reading your blog, and as a vet tech, vet tech student and possible future veterinarian i love reading what you think and teach. I know you will get somewhere bigger in life and the way you manager and write in this blog will have a big thing to do with it. :)
Shell October 9th, 2007 10:51:00 AM
Shell: Is this MB? So sweet. If so, I hope tech school and the new gig down south are working out for you. Come by and check on us sometime.
Dr. Patty Khuly October 9th, 2007 04:19:00 PM
You've found me! School is going great and the new job is great but i just have some getting use to the fast passed atmosphere.
I'll come by soon, im actually moving to Orlando in the beginning of March so you'll be seeing me alot before i leave.
Shell October 10th, 2007 08:52:00 AM
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