Vetcetera Cows: What’s not to love? (the survivors of one Mexican village likely agree)

November 7th, 2007  

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I live in the Hudson Valley region of NY where there is a huge "go local" food movement. I am a vegetarian and I volunteer at a farm animal shelter, but I would consider buying milk from local farmer's who take good care of their animals. What would be some things to look out for if I were to go check out a dairy?

Megan November 7th, 2007 12:19:00 PM

A timely blog after bringing up the issue of pain meds in small animals. AS a mixed animal veterinarinan with an organic dairy in our practice, I am frustrated that the dairymen can't/won't treat an animal with medications that would help it heal faster and with less discomfort (i.e. good old dexamethasone or banamine after traumatic stantion barn gutter injury) Organic may be best for the person but not always the animal. No veterinarian is going to deny the critical and life saving role that drugs play in our society...not all drug use in animal/food production is bad. I wish people weren't so quick to jump to uneducated decision, especially when they are not the ones caring for the livestock. We must respect these animals and treat them care, whether for companionship or food, our lives really do depend on them.

Tracey November 7th, 2007 01:31:00 PM

Tracey - Are you saying that the dairymen who run organic dairys won't treat their injured animals with antibiotics because it would void their organic status?

Megan November 7th, 2007 02:11:00 PM

Sad but true. Many don't because they don't have a "second string" of non organic milking cows to move her into and organic replacement animals are very diffeicult to find. With dairy, it has to be all are none. You cannot go back and forthbetween organic or not. Even the feed the animals are being fed has to be grown certified organic which means no chemical could have been used on that land in over 36 months. The regulations are strict. Dairymen, wishing to go organic, ofter take 5+ years to get to that point. With beef cattle, it is easier to keep them "organic" but if they need to treat, just treat and the animal is no longer organic so they tag it and move it to a differnt pen. Dairy is different because that farmer usually has several thousand dollar invested in the cost of the animal, not to mention over 2 years in raising the heifer before she gives a drop of milk. It's really a tough issue. There is so much more that goes into the food we eat thatn people realize.

Tracey November 7th, 2007 03:56:00 PM

Megan: Yes, that's the case. Antibiotic-free milk means that smaller infections don't tend to get treated systemically with antibiotics or other drugs. If they were, the cow's milk would have to be discarded for a period of time (sometimes too long a period for a bottom-line minded dairy farmer). Given the high expense of dairy farming and the low cost of milk, it's no wonder these practices fluorish--even (perhaps especially?) in "organic" farming. I wish we all could understand what goes into the milk we drink. Maybe then we'd be happy to pay twice as much as we currently do for our milk. btw, I feel the same way about eggs.

Dr. Patty Khuly November 7th, 2007 03:56:00 PM

Tracey: Sorry to step on your toes on that last comment. We were typing away simultaneously, I think.

Dr. Patty Khuly November 7th, 2007 03:58:00 PM

Patty, I swear you are a fly on our clinic wall! ( that wasn't meant in a bad way) it seems like your blogs are topics we have just gabbed about in the clinic. I'm amazed at how very similar lives and practice can be when I'm half way across the country. Thanks so much for taking the time to do this!

Tracey November 7th, 2007 04:04:00 PM

I like to think that a lot of hospitals are like ours. Generally, I think that's a good thing. Feel free to email me topics you'd like to hear about or stories about your place.

Dr. Patty Khuly November 7th, 2007 04:36:00 PM

Thank you both so much for taking the time to reply! I really had no idea. And I considered myself an educated consumer! I'm going to pass this info along to everyone I know and I'll do some more research on local dairies.

I can't believe that's what the organic label perpetuates - what a bummer!

In theory would a non-organic dairy pull their injured animals out of the production line, treat them, find an easy substitute and continue on? Does the "rBST-Free" label have any real value?

Megan November 7th, 2007 04:40:00 PM

I've been fascinated by miniature cattle. They are cute and easier to handle than the full size breeds, but they aren't only pets. As meat producers they are more efficient in converting feed to meat and since they take much less space, if you want to raise your own meat you can keep a small herd in the same space you could keep one or two full-sized steers, which is much nicer for these social animals, http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10697287/ They are also very practical for third world countires. Quite a few breeds of cattle have been miniaturiezed, some for meat, some for dairy, and some just because they are adorable :-)

Linda H November 7th, 2007 05:01:00 PM

I already have a second tab open where I'm googling 'miniature cattle'. I've never heard of cattle being bred down in size, but the idea makes me extremely uneasy. the pet industry is already rife with "pocket puppy micro mini teacups" (and dogs are the only companion animal bred down... anyone ever heard of a Teacup Persian?).

Like I said, I'm about to do my research right now, so perhaps my initial feelings are a bit premature... but the idea of ANYTHING being PURPOSELY bred down in size (especially for the sole purpose of being cuter that way) just rubs me the wrong way. besides, if 'miniature cattle' meat was on the market (or the table for that matter), I for one wouldn't be thrilled to be eating a cuter cow.

Off to do research now, anyone else have any info on minicows?

charity November 7th, 2007 06:43:00 PM

okay I researched. found the following at this website:

http://www.miniaturebull.com/Why.html

   Anything.....This is the great thing about miniature cattle. There is a breed or crossed breed that will work for any one for just about anything. Got a new place? mini cattle are great at clearing brush. Too much grass to mow? they make great living lawn ornaments. Organic food and fertilizer, petting zoos, school programs, elderly and hanicapp therapy animals. A little time, effort and lots of fun make the mini cattle a perfect fit for almost everyone.

maybe I'm just a city girl...

charity November 7th, 2007 07:22:00 PM

There are several "miniature" cattle breeds that are recognized as ligitimate breeds distinct in and of themselves. Most hail from places where space was at a premium, particularly the islands of the U.K. One I'm particularly interested in is the Dexter breed; it's originally an English breed that is considered in danger of extinction. There's a website about livestock conservation that lists rare breeds of cattle, horses, goats, pigs, and chickens that are unique, have characteristics that have been bred out of most commercial animals, and that are in danger of dying out.

http://www.albc-usa.org/

Most of the cattle breeds listed here are, by today's standard, "miniature," efficient in their eating habits and most are duel purpose. Unlike the modern dairy cow, which is pretty much useless in terms of meat production, most of these cows produce excellent meat when their milk production days are over.

MeriGray November 7th, 2007 10:32:00 PM

Megan: I forgot to address your question on what to look for in a cow comfort-inclined dairy: sprinklers in hot weather, clean water in troughs, deep bedding (waterbeds and recycled tire beds are great) and a minimum of muddiness and wet surfaces (not good for hooves and promote slipping in some cases).

Tracey: Why don't organic dairies just sell off these cows to non-organic dairies once antibiotics are required? Can they at least sell the milk of medicated cows to non-organic co-ops so as not to waste it?

Dr. Patty Khuly November 8th, 2007 08:24:00 AM

Irish Dexters are very interesting! I just came back from visiting my friends on their ranch outside of Autsin. They have a herd of registered Dexters (and also raise some Beefmasters). The Dexters were really pleasant to be around, friendly and curious.

Here's my friend with two of the cows: http://flickr.com/photos/giori/1805494520/

Gina Spadafori November 8th, 2007 09:13:00 AM

I buy the organic milk mainly because of its container.

The local milk bottling plant and the generic milk come in regular containers. By day 3 after opening the half-gallon, it has started to turn, and since we don't drink a lot of milk, that means tossing almost a quart of milk. Twice a week. And I feel guilty about that- it's wasted.

But the organic milk has a screw top and much more asceptic packaging. I can let it sit for more than a week before it will start to turn, and that means I will finish the half-gallon easily with no waste. I end up spending the same amount of money on milk, and not tossing out any of it.

That being said, I still would prefer the organic cows to get the medicine they need when they needs some. It's the continuing regular dosage with the antibiotics to which I object.

Georg November 8th, 2007 09:13:00 AM

Oh, and my friend doesn't do "organic" and the med issue is one big reason why. But her cattle are happy and gorgeous, and very well cared for. (And, although it seems weird to mention in the same breath, the beef they produce is outstanding.)

Dexters also have a higher yeild than many larger cattle, a higher percentage of meat produced than the larger guys.

Gina Spadafori November 8th, 2007 10:11:00 AM

It seems that as long as the infections in question are small and the immune system of the cow is adequately handling them on its own, that this is the whole point of organic farming and product consumtion?

If a minute amount of a bacteria in question makes it to us, is this not helping keep our immune response up to par, instead of introducing trace amount of antibiotic into our systems and helping bacteria to develop resistance as they aspire to become the next MIRSA type story on the news?

Huge or rampant infection is one thing and should be rapidly treated, of course. I guess I don't know enough about the food animal industry to fully understand this issue, even though I live in dairy land, Pennsylvania ,lol.

Brian Hewitt November 8th, 2007 11:05:00 AM

Just a few answers to a few different comment brought up. First off, almost all organic milk is ulta-pasturized vs just pasturized. This give it a much longer shelf life...check out the expirations dates of organic vs not. The reason is that organic dairy aren't everywhere. Much is it has to be trucked cross-country where convential milk is almost always raised within a 100 mile radius of where it is sold. Read the label-It usually says where it is bottled. I do think many organic dairys do sell off there treated cows to convential dairy...the problem is the start up cost and the investment of time to create an organic animal. Once it's been treat with meds It's not organic. Period. They have to be fed and raised organicly for a cetain time frame.I'd have to check, but it is over 12 month. Feed stuffs are 36 months. If an organic dairyman treated an animal, her milk withdrawl is 12 months. He could sell the milk seperately but he'd have to have a seperate bulktank, milk seperately, flush the system...etc...Obviously, convential dairies have withdrawl times too, mik from a cow treated with an approved antibiotic or antiinflamatory, must be dumped/discarded (not added to the food chain) for a specified time period2-7 dyas usually. This depends on the specific drug. Withdrawls for beef cattleare usually around 30 days before harvest ( nice way of saying slaughter)Consumers often don't understand withdrawl times for drugs - they should, they are there to protect you and keep food safe.

Tracey November 8th, 2007 01:29:00 PM

Treatment of a foot abscess, to my way of thinking, would necesitate pain relievers and antibiotics. We'd expect nothing less for a cat or a dog. Why a dairy cow needs to go without until 1) she succumbs to the infection and gets carted off to the slaughterhouse before it goes systemic or 2) her body clears the painful problem is beyond me. Send her to the slaughterhouse ASAP if that's what it takes to treat her humanely. I'll eat that meat but I don't want to drink that milk. If I keep thinking about this I'll surely be resorting to my own incipient goat herd for my milk--if not my meat, too.

Dr. Patty Khuly November 8th, 2007 01:46:00 PM

Dr. Khuly,

If thinking about this will result in you turning to your goat herd for milk, I probably shouldn't pass along some of the things I have heard take place in a local slaughterhouse/meat processing plant. Keeping an eye out for the occasional "human arm propelled flying abscess" does not sound like my idea of a fun job... no wonder those guys are some of the heaviest drinkers at the local watering hole, hehe.

Brian Hewitt November 8th, 2007 02:48:00 PM

Brian: Now don't get me going on slaughterhouse reform. I've been researching slaughterhouses and slaughter techniques over the past six months for my own inevitable needs (a goat herd, even a dairy herd, needs a slaughterhouse, too). stil, I prefer death to untended, rotting feet any day.

Dr. Patty Khuly November 8th, 2007 03:51:00 PM

The organic label is a bit of a hyped issue- just like any set of rules- they don't all make sense all the time. It is important to prevent a cow from suffering, and I like the focus on cow comfort far more than on 'organic'.

Although I think organic is important from an energy conservation, land management, and human health position... A local non-organic dairy that is well managed, that feeds locally grown feed (hopefully most of it organic), along with good environmental and husbandry practices would be a 'better' dairy in my mind. Also there is the ability to look the owner in the eye- and have a relationship with the product that otherwise would be impossible.

Local tends to be better- and also if you disagree with how something is done at the dairy, you can simply chat with the farmer and tell them why you would pay more for a different product- I bet they would like that a lot better than dealing with low prices and corporate hacks...

Tim November 8th, 2007 05:27:00 PM

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