Vet Stress What to do when a progressive pet vaccine policy cuts deeply into your bottom line…

January 7th, 2008  

Add Comment31 Comments

I live in Davis (home to the UC Davis Vet Med school), and my vets follow the new vaccine protocols. But I always bring in my dogs for their annual exams (and my older dogs went in every 4-6 months, depending on their health statusand medications). Following the (very rough, I know) idea that a dog year is seven human years, that kind of annual exam schedule hardly seems excessive. And the CBC gave even my young dogs a baseline. Actually, even the young dogs really get exams more than once a year since they typically go to the vet more than that for some other issue (suspicious lump, lilmping, upset stomachs, hot spots, etc.)

Arlene January 7th, 2008 10:53:00 AM

The vets in my town are not as ethical as you. They have the whole town snookered into believing that the purpose of the annual rabies vaccine law is to get the pet in for an annual exam and have blocked any attempt to modernize the law to match current protocols. Well, sorry, the purpose of rabies vaccination is to prevent a horrible disease, NOT to mandate annual exams (which by the way, are going out of favor in human medicine). Annual vax are unnecessary and in some cases harmful to our pets. A co worker had a old dog who never left the house, and always had bad reactions to the distemper vax. Despite this, the vet continued to intimidate her into annual vax, to his shame IMO.

So I sympathize with good ethical vets but sorry, don't tell me I have to incur unnecessary expense and possible harm to my dog because of your bottom line.

EmilyS January 7th, 2008 11:23:00 AM

EmilyS

"So I sympathize with good ethical vets but sorry, don't tell me I have to incur unnecessary expense and possible harm to my dog because of your bottom line."

No, not because of my bottom line, that's merely an unintended consequence of the newer protocols and part of the explanation of why vets won't adopt newer policies--not to mention the decrease in annual check-ups, which are indispensable, IMO.

Dr. Patty Khuly January 7th, 2008 11:29:00 AM

I've always regarded an annual exam as pretty basic, and when my vets started recommending less-frequent vaccines, so that my pets didn't get shots every single year--making that visit less stressful for all of us--I thought that was a _good_ thing, and not a reason to stop going.

But then, silly person that I am, I get an annual physical for myself, too. (Which because of the difference in aging rates, is in biological terms rather more frequent than my pets' annual exams.)

Lis January 7th, 2008 11:42:00 AM

Why not give vaccinations on different years to get clients to come in annually? Rabies one year, DHLPP another, heartworm check another, that sort of thing. Maybe if vets explained a bit about what they were doing/looking for during a physical exam, clients would understand it's importance better? Maybe not. I would love to see vets have written protocols for dogs at different life stages including care outside of the "usual"...perhaps even a minimal care and a recommended/deluxe protocols. Personally I see the value in getting bloodwork, urinalysis, etc. done throughout their lives - I'd sure rather spend money on that then on vaccines they don't need.

Chris January 7th, 2008 11:48:00 AM

It would seem to me that less vaccines would require more checkups to insure that immunity is sufficient. While I stopped vaccinating long before the protocol changed, I still asked my vet to do titers and all my dogs are examined annually when we go in for rabies (every three years) or not.

/amy

Amy January 7th, 2008 11:55:00 AM

Don't forget that there is a sizable population out there that doesn't want to know if they, or their dogs, are ill. The interest news programs usually run a story on it once a year, citing that men especially don't visit the doctor for routine checkups and physicals, and that even when presented with symptoms, many will ignore or self medicate.

I imagine that the logic is something like, 'If I haven't been to a doctor in 5 years, why am I taking my dog to one every 6 months!'

Border Wars - Christopher January 7th, 2008 12:59:00 PM

I miss my Vet if I don't see him for more than a month.... I miss the techs..... I like to "pop in" and say Hi, is seems, for even the slightest suspicion that something could potentially be wrong with Lottie! Lol..... ;0)

Seriously though, I'm all for empowering oneself with knowledge. But it seems the internet has given way to people who think they know 'better' (this goes for many, many professional fields. Not just medicine). I am not a Vet, and I prefer the peace of mind my Vet gives me over anything I may self diagnose over the internet. Annual exams seem to me to be the least we can do for our companions. Not to mention the education I get just from asking a lot of quesitons!

Amy in Somerville January 7th, 2008 01:01:00 PM

Border Wars- THAT IS SO TRUE!
Hubby has been walking around with a violent cough and blowing his nose for 2+ weeks. I grew tired of asking him to go to the doctor so yesterday while he was whining that 'he didn't feel well' I said, "well, once you go to the doctor and get that confirmed, I'll make you chicken soup. Otherwise you have to help me clean the house!" Because he just won't go! Well, today the poor thing broke down and made an appointment. Meanwhile...........my glands are starting to swell and I'm coughing. *sigh* Good thing I'm in charge of Lottie's health.

Amy in SOmerville January 7th, 2008 01:05:00 PM

We do our best to stagger vaccines so that we generally manage to see most pets two out of three years. It's amazing to me how many people are irritated when they come in and their pet isn't due for vaccines that year. Instead of looking at it as money saved, they see us as putting them out money because they have to pay for a doctor's visit and don't even get a vaccine.

katie January 7th, 2008 01:22:00 PM

This is where living in south Florida should come in handy! Heartworm tests should be done annually, no? Or, if not giving HW preventative at all, semi-annually. And can't you recommend titers in place of vaccinations? That should get people in...

Sharyn January 7th, 2008 03:09:00 PM

I can't imagine NOT taking my dogs in for an annual exam. While I do watch them very carefully and do the best I can for them, I don't have a stethoscope - and if I did, I'd have no idea what I was hearing! And I don't know the signs of early illness. Sometimes there are things we think nothing of, but a trained vet can put together the pieces and find the early symptoms of disease. These guys are so good at hiding things from us. Thank you, vets everywhere, for being there to take care of our very special companions and friends. I will continue to monitor my pets' conditions, keep them clean, well-groomed and at a good weight. I depend on you, the vet, to help me keep them as healthy as possible for as long as possible.

Robin January 7th, 2008 03:49:00 PM

It is my understanding that a three year schedule was recommended by one of the big governing bodies (can't remember which) as early as the 60's.

Quite frankly, while I do have issues with vets in our area who convince unwitting pet owners that six month vaccines for everything available is a good idea, my own personal choice (no vaccines after initial puppy series, titre every three to four years) is accepted by my veterinarian. They all get three year rabies, with the exception of any immune-compromised guys like those with AIHA, a history of mange, allergies or epilepsy.

I think the bigger issue is vets who will jab an animal while ill. Fluffy comes in for an eye infection/ear infection/skin disorder/etc., and while you're here let's update all her vaccines!

kim January 7th, 2008 05:52:00 PM

"It is my understanding that a three year schedule was recommended by one of the big governing bodies (can't remember which) as early as the 60's."

Lol, Kim, I was just thinking that we stopped vaccinating every year back in the early 1990's. I agree with everyone that said a yearly physical is important and my special needs critters go every 6 months.

Imo showing the client that you are doing a thorough physical examination is very important and for those that don't see the value you can ensure that the ones on heart worm preventive come in for the test and exam once a year or don't sell them the meds which will also help to protect you legally. I don't think its really a threat to the bottom line because lets face it one dental to the tune of $500+ (you are doing BP monitoring and xrays, right?) should take the place of several vaccinations. :)

Jules January 7th, 2008 06:11:00 PM

Wow, Jules. I wish I could charge $500 for a dental. And, if I say so myself, we do better dentals than any other practice I've ever worked at. *sigh*

Dr. Patty Khuly January 7th, 2008 07:41:00 PM

Right you are about price and quality not always being congruent . I always thought Miami was a high dollar area. I must watch too much TV. :)

Jules January 7th, 2008 08:18:00 PM

Vaccines are by definition designed to prevent infectious diseases. So I remain unclear as to why my 2 cats who NEVER go outside need vaccines at all. My vet mumbled something about "well what if they escape", but I remain unconvinced. I don't mind the visit and routine labs annually, but the vaccines annoy me. My cat's haven't speny 2 minutes outdoors since I got them over 3 years ago when they were kittens.

kate7047 January 7th, 2008 09:32:00 PM

Robin--I DO have a stethoscope, and after working in health care for 30+ years, and having worked closely with a wonderful, teaching vet for the past 2 years, I DO know what I'm listening for and hearing. Nevertheless, all my pets see their own vet annually, at the very least, regardless of the need for vaccines. Even before the current 3-year regime was widely accepted, I was questioning the need and advisability of annual shots, for my cats in particular, due to the possibility of VAS in cats. But I trust my vet(s) implicitly, and rely on their expertise to keep my crew healthy. But I have been known to take out my stethoscope to listen to an unusual cough or heavy breathing, or to the abdomen in the case of vomiting or intestinal symptoms, and then call my vet appropriately to find out if I need to rush them in, or wait it out a day. I think we have a sort of partnership to keep everyone healthy, and give me peace of mind.

Shellie January 7th, 2008 10:00:00 PM

I agree with Emily.

I don't like being blackmailed. I paid $45 for the $0.98 vaccination because the vet told me he had to examine the dog to make sure he was healthy before vaccinating. How many of you went to a town sponsored rabies clinic and had a physical before they would vaccinate your dog? That happened before the new protocol. It's not the money. It's the deception.

I don't like it when a puppy has had all it's baby series inoculations and the vet does not recognize those shots and insist on doing the whole series again if you want to be his client. Talk about immune system overload!

I don't like it when I get verbally raked over the coals by a vet for worming my puppies at home. Why should I take healthy pups in for worming when I can do it? Isn't that where the sick animals go? I had been his client for 17 years and he refused to give me the wormer without me bringing the whole litter to the office. Sorry, that is balony.

I don't like it when I overhear my vet telling another office person that he cannot stand the breed I happen to own and breed.

I don't like it when I go to the vets and no matter what symptom the dog is exhibiting, he calls it either a "flea" allergy or Lyme disease.

Three people contacted me 4-5 years ago for a replacement puppy after their dog died shortly after their "wellness" exam. The age of the 3 dogs ranged from 12-14. All were active, happy, healthy elderly dogs. All were given every vaccine booster known to veterinarian science and then wormed - all 3 were dead within a month of their "wellness" exam.

So I am very disgusted towards most of the vets in my area.

I don't mind going in for a baseline profile. That would be helpful in the future but I do not go in for yearly wellness exams.

When I go in it's because I can't handle it myself, it's major or it's terminal. If I have a choice and no crisis situation, I prefer to have my equine vet come to the farm to help them pass on.

Judy January 7th, 2008 10:37:00 PM

"Vaccines are by definition designed to prevent infectious diseases. So I remain unclear as to why my 2 cats who NEVER go outside need vaccines at all."

Kate7047, if your vet is following the 3 year recommendation he is doing his job, imo. Perhaps he would consider doing titers instead? I normally do either 1 or 2 full rounds of vaccines (never FELV) in my cats because they are inside only also but that is it. Rabies of course is the exception depending on where you live. Sadly vaccines don't prevent infectious diseases but they are the reason there has been a decline in the number of cases or hopefully a lessened severity if it does happen. The decision also becomes about our responsibility to prevent a nearly erradicated disease from reappearing. I'd be more inclined to worry about a nosocomial infection at the vets than one of mine sneaking outside but in any event I do believe they need to have some immunity on board.

Jules January 7th, 2008 10:38:00 PM

Vaccinations are about the last reason I take my animals in for their annual exam. Except for rabies (by law), my dogs almost always get any vaccinations at tech appointments. (They get titers at their annual exam.) I can see forgetting to take your pet (or yourself) in for a regular exam, but why have a vet if all you want is shots? (Don't they have discount vaccine clinics in Florida?)

Then again, I'm probably not normal. I got special permission to have my new dog neutered at my vet rather than the "free" neuter at the shelter, because I wanted the higher standard of care that my vet provides over the factory-like shelter neuters (pre-surgical testing, surgery and monitoring by people I know and trust, ...) It also meant I could get orthopedic x-rays - of course, he's only 16 months, so I'll be repeating the x-rays in another 8 months or so. We won't talk about what I paid for all this...

Juli January 8th, 2008 03:18:00 AM

My vet has a progressive vaccination policy, too, and my cats get only the three core vaccinations (rabies, HCP and FeLV). My vet staggers the rabies and HCP vaccinations so that my cats don't ever end up getting three vaccinations at a time. I've got one cat turning 12 this year, and I'm going to ask my vet about the 6-month exam schedule for senior cats and when/if she thinks Siouxsie should get on that schedule. My 7-year-old, Thomas, is going in on Wednesday for rabies and FeLV vaccinations and, while we're there, my vet's going to check up on the barely noticeable heart murmur she discovered at his last annual physical.

Maybe that's a way you could get your clients to come in yearly. My cats would go to the vet for checkups even if they didn't get vaccinations--although I know I'm not a typical pet "owner" in my area, though. My cats, in fact, got better and more regular medical care than I did during the many years I was without health insurance.

JaneA January 8th, 2008 06:39:00 AM

Judy,

It sounds like you need a new vet!!! That sounds like pretty horrific treatment if you ask me. Did he know you could hear him when he spoke about your breed?

Kate, I would still worry about exposure from mice and other things that can expose cats to diseases. (guest with sick cats at home perhaps) I just watched an interesting show about mice and boy are those critters ever present! But I'm with however suggested titers if they make you uncomfortable.

I can't imagine being able to go a whole year without seeing my vet for something. Even back when I did my own vax (only on days the vet was open just in case) I still took them regularly to the vet for check ups and whatnot. I am not a vet, even though I have worked as a vet tech, and might not catch something they would with an exam. It is to bad that some vets do take advantage. As with any career field, there can always be bad apples in the bunch no matter how hard you try to avoid them.

Marie January 8th, 2008 07:37:00 AM

To Kate - remember that most of the diseases you vaccinate for are viral diseases, which don't necessarily have to be transmitted through direct contact. All it would take is a sick stray hanging around your home for you to track in panleukopenia or calici. A triannual vaccine seems pretty reasonable.

anna January 8th, 2008 11:31:00 PM

Here's some mind blowing pet demographics. This is from the HSUS site:

http://tinyurl.com/2ocrv3

Click on Chapter 2, open the PDF and read it.

Turns out that puppy mill puppies and gift puppies stay in homes more than adopted pets, purchased pets, and freebies from family. Also turns out that pets that see a vet at least once in their entire life are drastically less likely to be abandoned! The more times people see a vet per year, they decrease the chance that they'll abandon their dog by half.

Go vets.

Border Wars - Christopher January 9th, 2008 02:34:00 AM

I don't worry about my vets bottom line. All my "kids" see her once a year for yearlys and she also follows the vaccine protocol you have written here.

Taz is a senior, so he does not get a yearly distemper and has his rabies vaccine every three years. The only time he's ever had a kennel cough vaccine was while I was working at the animal hospital. He hasn't had one since because there is no need for him to have one. He's not around strange dog and I don't board him, so it would be silly to have it done. He has blood drawn to check for heartworm and Lymes at his yearly, so I completely avoid the spring time rush as his yearly falls in December.

The rest of the year I see her because somebody comes down with something or if I need something like canine I/D which I always keep a 6-pack of in the house in the event that the dogs have a upset stomach and need something bland to eat for a few days. I also keep a few cans of A/D handy in the event that the cats break out in a URI. It's the only thing they'll eat if they have a snotty nose. If they sit on the fence about that, I add meat flavored baby food to it.

I'm not sure how vaccine schedules become an excuse for a pet owners not to bring their pet(s) to a vet once a year. My cats are also strictly indoors, but they are still vaccinated. As they age, their vaccine schedule will change as well, but I still like to know that they are in good health.

URI's are often treated at home as my vet doesn't like the idea of having it spread throughout her hospital, but once somebody goes off feed for more than 48 hours, she wants to see them. With the exeption of Mojo right after I got him, I've never had to bring the cats in for one.

It seems to me that pet owners are using vaccine schedules a "reason" to be lazy...

Stacy January 9th, 2008 07:40:00 AM

i'm sure somewhere in the 26 comments someone mentioned having titers conducted in lieu of vaccines - but if not - it might be an answer to the loss of income that occurs when vaccine protocols change to reflect new standards of care.

yearly titers would be a great idea in lieu of vaccines. we have our rabies titers checked every now and then to make sure we don't need a booster.

homeless parrot January 9th, 2008 11:00:00 PM

Homeless Parrot: The problem with titering is that the rabies titer is not considered a reasonable measure of protection according to most vet immunologists. California doesn't allow them in lieu of vaccination for that reason. Distemper/Parvo titers are my proposed solution to the problem, especially given that our area is so distemper/parvo-rich. But immunologists still won't consider those 100% protective. I've been considering sending my titers to Cornell where the lab is more likely to explain an individual finding in greater detail but the prices get steep quickly. More importantly, my colleagues in this hospital (whom I have much respect for) aren't sold on titering as a solution. They think it's a bunch of money-making hooey that doesn't really help much. But I titer my own dogs--clearly I believe it's helpful in bringing me to a smart decision about what my own pets need.

Dr. Patty Khuly January 10th, 2008 10:33:00 AM

Has there ever been a reported case of an animal contracting any of those diseases after only one vaccine shot?

Sure the current thinking is that we need to give boosters all the time, but what do the numbers say?

Border Wars - Christopher January 10th, 2008 12:11:00 PM

Re:

"Arguing that fewer annual vet visits might inadvertently result from the lower frequency vaccine schedules experts increasingly recommend, critics continue to administer annual vaccinations—some vets (including national chains) even advocate the use of vaccines every six months for non-core vaccines like Bordetella (kennel cough) or Corona virus, despite a pet’s low risk status."

But you realize that is immoral and unethical, right? If it's not scientifically based, not in the patients best interest, and all about the bottom line, it's unethical.

Re: "Many also cite the “standard of care” issue, worried that Miami’s warmer weather conspires to foment diseases less prevalent elsewhere. In this case, they argue, are we at a higher risk of a lawsuit if an animal does contract the diseases others vaccinate more frequently against?"

Oh, my goodness. It cracks me up that vets live in fear of lawsuits. I guess we pet owners should be grateful that the apparent fear of malpractice is so disproportionate to the true threat of malpractice. Have these concerned colleagues even bothered to do the math on what it would cost a pet owner to bring a malpractice case, and see it through to trial, vs. what they could ever possibly recover? Nevermind, don't tell them -- it's better if they don't know how really unlikely such a scenario is.

Re: "we have no plans to change the protocol. Hopefully we’ll be able to convince the doubting Thomases [understandably hoping to hold tight to their hard-earned money] that annual physicals are the key to saving it in the long run."

Good for you. I totally believe in annual bloodwork, dentals when needed (although they terrify me), and mimimal vaccines.

Re: “what’s best for the patient is what’s best for the practice.”

Would that all your colleagues were of similar mind!

Stefani January 15th, 2008 12:20:00 AM

Most clinics that I have spoken with have staggered the rabies and distemper vaccines and then still give the other yearly vaccines - corona, lyme, lepto, giardia, bordetella based on risk of exposure. They also added onto the reminder cards about coming in for yearly physical examination to include parasite screening, blood work and dental examination and then any vaccine that the animal is due to receive. There are some clinics that have modified their reminder cards to include the phrase "It's been pet years since we've seen you!" If people could consider that their pets age so much quicker than ourselves and our yearly examinations are roughly equivalent to every 7 years in that pet's life, perhaps they would think differently about their pets' yearly physical examination visits.

Elle January 23rd, 2008 01:42:00 AM

Add Commment

Your Name:

CAPTCHA Verification