Vet Stress Chemo stress in vet medicine: Why I recommend chemotherapy and how I get past client reluctance

March 2nd, 2008  

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Are some cancers more painful than others I wonder?? I know bone and jaw cancer would be unbearable. I would have to put my pet down if that came up. Having a tooth ache hurts bad enough.

Was just wondering.

ashleigh March 2nd, 2008 06:56:00 PM

Just as in humans, different cancers have different outcomes or statistics of success with treatment. That is the cut & dry topic that needs to be approached. A young dog with lymphoma? I would venture a try at chemo. An old dog with melanoma, probably not.

Having had a Scottie with diagnosed Transitional Cell Carinoma, I had great success with "Piroxicam", not chemo. Not a cure, by any means, but kept the tumors at slow growth with fantastic quality of life for 25 months.

A difficult and very personal decision.

Barbara A. Albright March 2nd, 2008 07:47:00 PM

Barbara says 'A young dog with lymphoma? I would venture a try at chemo. An old dog with melanoma, probably not.'

And there's a new vaccine for melanoma now that is doing amazing things for dogs. It's curative in many cases, but it has some side effects due to it's mechanism (it kills melanocytes so some dogs lose their pigment).

Dr. Patty, the melanoma vaccine would be a great topic for a blog. (Hint! Hint!)

Ingrid March 2nd, 2008 08:32:00 PM

Have you tried neoplasene or any of the other "black salves" or bloodroot-based drugs?

kabbage March 2nd, 2008 09:05:00 PM

Ingrid, I know a Scottie owner that tried the vaccine treatment for her dog, he wasn't that old (comparatively), and sadly it didn't do anything. But I would be interested in hearing success stories about it. Melanoma is a big cancer killer in the Scottish Terrier behind TCC and lymphoma.

Barbara A. Albright March 2nd, 2008 10:32:00 PM

I did chemotherapy for my 13 year old golden who had osteosarcoma (and whose front leg was first amputated)--the chemo and amputation gave her a year--a happy year. I have no regrets at all, about either the amputation or the chemo. My vet also explained to me that the chemo wouldn't be as bad in terms of side effects as it usually is for people, and there weren't many side effects. Some fatigue for a day or two and some stomach upset (treated with Pepcid), but that was about it. It helped me (and my dog) that the chemo treatment was done right at my vet's office--it is close to where I live and it was a familiar place with familiar people, both for me and my pet. I don't know if it is usual or not to do it at a vet's office. I live in Davis, home to UC Davis, with its vet hospital. My vet (like most vets in the area) is a graduate of UCD, with continuing connections to the vet school. So the chemo protocols were all established at UCD, but administered at my vet's own clinic. That just made the whole process more user-friendly.

Arlene March 2nd, 2008 10:52:00 PM

Having gone through 3 family members and 3 pets with cancer I have more experience than I ever wanted. The docs wanted my mother to get chemo (perforated bowel cancer). Later after some research I found that there was none, zero, zip efficacy of chemo for her particular situation. But docs and people want to do something, try anything. So upfront statistics would be needed for me to even think about it. For most people diving into a pile of papers is not what they're interested in. In the end it's an emotional decision. And really, no one has proof that chemo would not make a particular animal miserable and not extend his/her life at all. So there is no right answer, except the one the owner feels most comfortable with.

CathyA March 3rd, 2008 08:11:00 AM

Barb, I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, nothing in veterinary medicine is without exception. From what I understand, for those that it does work for it is an amazing treatment. We had a couple of lectures on the vaccine during our cancer section and it sure sounds promising. We even got to meet a dog who they claim is now 'cancer free' - the vaccine worked against his primary tumor AND his metastases.

Ingrid March 3rd, 2008 09:36:00 AM

I know plenty of dogs who got a new lease on life through chemo. I can't recall talking to a single dog owner who regretted treating their dog's cancer with chemo. (Until I was faced with the big C in a middle-aged, vibrant, filled-with-life dog, I always said I'd say "no way" to chemo and just do palliative care.)

It is truly unbelievable how well dogs can do on chemo. A friend of mine's dog (another middle-aged one) was found to be so filled with cancer that chemo was a last-ditch effort to relieve the dog's pain and give my friend a chance to adjust to the news.....3 months ago! And not 3 months of so-so either, but 3 months of happy dog. My own dog is back to his bouncing off the walls, begging to DO SOMETHING self.

Applause, Dr. K. for addressing this subject. Continue to look for ways to gently persuade owners to consider the option instead of rejecting it out right.

Deanna March 3rd, 2008 01:40:00 PM

I'm sure that I'm up at this hour because of Cody (a six year old Heinz 57) having been diagnosed with cancer and my opting for chemo. I question my decision as I see him panting furiously for some unknown reason - certainly not from exercise (I give him water and he settles - an aha moment). He is ravenously hungry, he lies on the floor (rather than the bed) and I can't stop looking at him wondering whether this was the right decision. He can't stop looking to us for food, comfort, for what? For me, my decision was made by process of elimination - I wanted him, I couldn't bear the thought of his dying in two weeks or two months. I now find comfort in my work as well as finding it torturous when I'm home and on high alert. The silences cause me to plummet emotionally. And yet, I'm at work...a lot!!! I can focus at work while my poor husband is home monitoring.

There are those who can live in the moment. I try. It's easy when he appears well and I forget momentarily. And, in the beginning we were giving him foods such as sardines, fish oil hoping it might lead to a cure - but I've/we have come to the realization that he will not be cured, he will die and I really, really, a million reallys want to be able to live in the friggin' moment and cherish the time we have left. And, to accept the fact that we are helpless. Maybe there's comfort in that realization.

And, the Chemo is not awful. Cody is better after his treatments. He has side effects - like the extreme thirst, hunger and possibly bloating (or was that the sardines)? So, we're chugging along
doing our best, taking our lead from our dog who I vow will not suffer. His tail still stands tall, he runs outside when he hears what I can't and he enjoys our cuddling him.

I don't know how he will be tomorrow - but Thursday he gets the Chemo, so he should be better-ish. Ahhhhh life.

janet March 5th, 2008 03:10:00 AM

Janet: It seems possible in your case--nay, likely--that all the symptoms you're seeing are coming from the high dose of Prednisone his regimen requires at this point. Have hope that once we get past this stage he'll be feeling even better! You're the best! See ya tomorrow!

Dr. Patty Khuly March 5th, 2008 11:17:00 AM

btw, I just wanted to clarify that I (and most vets) require that all cancer patients see an oncologist or internist to set up the protocol after staging the cancer (if staging is possible). Many of us general practitioners then administer the chemo ourselves in our own hospitals--but not all do.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 5th, 2008 11:20:00 AM

Chemo is normally not as traumatic for cats and dogs as for humans but I believe the animal's health status, tumor type and stage are important considerations. For osteosarcoma I can not get passed the many negative outcomes I have seen with regard to amputation and chemo. Based on the intense pain and high percentage of mets, palliative radiation is the most I would consider in the case of osteosarcoma.

Jules March 6th, 2008 10:09:00 PM

My dog had osteosarcoma bone cancer, after much soul searching we decided to give her the chance to fight the cancer a chance of life, we went amputation and chemo, she sailed through amputation, recovery was swift and as soon as the leg was gone her eyes showed she was our old dog back again, pain free happy and loving life, then we went through chemo, apart from being sleepy on the days of chemo you would neve know she had had it, it was never a problem for us it was the best decision we could ever have made she did not just get the one year of great quality that we hoped for she got over another 7 YEARS OF GREAT LIFE, she never missed her leg, the cancer never returned and she passed from a massive stroke two weeks before her 15th birthday. I shudder now when I think I nearly never took the chance as I was afraid of amp and chemo, so glad I listened to her oncologist who I cannot thank enough

Ruth September 1st, 2008 03:01:00 PM

My dog who is 4 yrs old has just given us a huge surprise. We have been informed she has Myelomonocytic leukimia. They did a bone morrow test to see how bad it was. They found it is chronic and she still has normal bone morrow. They are giving us the option now of chemo. Called cytosar/ara-c. I don't know what to do right now. My dog is showing NO symptoms. You would never know she was sick. The fact she seems to be a rare case really frightens me. I read these great success stories and I think we will do the chemo. But I hope if anyone has any advice on this type of cancer or treatment they may be able to give some advice. Our oncologist is GREAT and answering ALL of our questions. It seems before this you make this choice you want to venture all options and opinions.

kailee Latronica October 9th, 2008 01:11:00 PM

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