Vet P.O.V. Oops!…They did it again: Footage of animal cruelty among US military personnel surfaces

April 10th, 2008  

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as ex military myself i find these soldiers cruelty very far from understandable. i understand that war zones can warp a mind to some degree but you are their to serve you county- an embassador of sorts and to slaughter or injure those that are weaker than you i find disgusting no matter if human, canine, feline or livestock. war sucks but as a soldier their is a chance that you will be in a war zone and cruelty for crueltys sake is inexcusable. these soldiers should be charged and stiff consequences invoked. bordeom is not a reason to hurt, maim or kill. im so beyond disgusted and at this moment ashamed that these people are representing not only my country but the military that i served.

kathryn April 10th, 2008 01:50:00 PM

It appears that, although the marine in question had recently been stationed in Iraq, the puppy-killing happened in Hawaii:
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...

Lis April 10th, 2008 01:55:00 PM

Thanks, Lis, for the correction.

Dr. Patty Khuly April 10th, 2008 04:23:00 PM

People actually thought that saying 'But they were BORED!" was a valid excuse?! If the families of these guys actually believe that, well... that's the reason why those men grew up warped, right there. An otherwise decent human being does NOT just decide that killing innocent animals is a fun way to pass the time, I don't care what unpleasant situation they're in.

There's a bigger problem going on with these guys (either training is favoring sociopathy in soldiers, which is disturbing in and of itself, seeing as how all soliders come home eventually to live in society with the rest of us), or the way they're being encouraged to behave in Iraq that's encouraging them to act like thugs. I'd guess it's a bit of both.

Pai April 10th, 2008 04:47:00 PM

Soldiers (and Marines, who -- I understand -- don't like to be called soldiers) are trained to kill. My father, who served in WWII referred to it as being brainwashed.

I can see the potential link: if someone is encouraged to kill another human being, why would taking the life of a puppy be off limits (so their thinking might go).

My disagreement begins long before the puppy/sheep situation; it begins when we take people who have been socialized (properly, in my book) against killing and then train them to kill. What a horrid thing to do to the young women and men of our country -- of any country.

Or, if we're taking people who have already be socialized toward violence -- like those who grow up abused by parents, or in families where the adults beat each other, or in neighborhoods where gangs rule -- and using them as cannon fodder, where's the humanity in that?

If the problem of soldiers and/or vets maiming/killing animals is truly based simply on boredom and frustration, then it's a failing of our military to clarify what is acceptable and what is not -- and to provide suitable outlets (not prostitutes, though, thank you). But I believe it's much deeper that that: It is a failure of our society to clarify that violence never solved anything in the long term, and War Is Not The Answer.

M April 10th, 2008 05:21:00 PM

What I find truly disturbing is that these soldiers don't see anything wrong with what they are doing.

But don't blame it on the military, there are loads of these videos made by 12-25 year olds showing them beating up on innocent people, killing the homeless, vandalizing property, etc right here in the good old USA. And the only time these sociopaths face any consequences is when they are actually stupid enough to make the video public.

The parents defend them, their friends defend them, the community finds itself exposed and rallies around the juvinile deliquents. They blame the Internet, U-tube, reality TV, the victim, the person who told on them - everyone but the criminal and themselves.

I sometimes think this entire nation needs to be grounded.

2CatMom April 10th, 2008 05:41:00 PM

I can kind of see, and even have some sympathy for, soldiers and marines being so stressed and damaged by what they're going through in the war, that their normal perception of right and wrong no longer functions correctly. That's a person damaged in our service, and we owe them compassion, treatment, and care.

But boredom? People think "boredom" is a defense for this kind of thing? That's _much_ scarier, especially coming from their families, who have been stressed, but not the same kind of stress.

Lis April 10th, 2008 07:50:00 PM

I think it's important to get these soldiers help *before* they resort to the killing and torture of innocent lives. The military should be investing more in psychological help for soldiers before they show signs of PTSD.

zandperl April 10th, 2008 10:23:00 PM

I didn't know that casual cruelty and failure of empathy was a symptom of PTSD or of boredom. I thought it was more a feature of antisocial personality disorder.

Alison April 11th, 2008 04:16:00 AM

Zandperl, I agree, totally. Unfortunately, mental illness from _whatever_ source isn't taken seriously and treated as it needs to be treated in this country. Alison, failure of empathy is a _possible_ effect of combat, especially in circumstances like Iraq where it really can be quite hard to tell who's the enemy and who's an ally, until they start shooting, or the belted-on bomb blows up, or whatever. I'm not sure it's what's typically diagnosed as PTSD, but it is mental and emotional damage from the effects of combat, for sure.

Lis April 11th, 2008 07:34:00 AM

Maybe military puppy killing and animal torture in general should be an indicator to the administration to review their stop loss policy.

slt April 11th, 2008 10:12:00 AM

I agree with your viewpoint wholeheartedly on all counts.

What is most disturbing is any victimization of beings weaker than ourselves. The elderly. Children. Animals.

If a soldier will do this to a dog, a puppy -- an entirely innocent being who has nothing to do with this war -- then what will he do to an Iraqi woman? An innocent Iraqi family who cross his path when he is in a bad mood?

When our military members victimize the innocent, human or animal, it bothers me. But with the animals somehow it bothers me more. Their utter innocence -- they don't even engage in the political system we have built, they are just at our mercy -- makes it particularly obscene.

I know war warps peoples minds, makes them numb, destroys their humanity. I hope this man gets institutionalized to get the psychiatric care he so obviously needs before being let into any community.

I deal with these stories by trying to focus on the good stories -- the soldiers who have brought dogs home with them, or whose families have adopted dogs that they bonded with while they were there, after the soldier has been killed. I have heard several of those stories.

We are capable of the most unutterable cruelties, and also the highest and most honorable behavior. I wish I understood what pushes a soldier -- or anyone -- toward one or the other manifestation.

Oh, and the Romney thing -- what a brainless, thoughtless, careless choice that was for him to make. Really put him in a new light for me. Also some of the Huckabee revelations. eek.

Stefani April 11th, 2008 10:40:00 AM

SLT--absolutely!

Lis April 11th, 2008 12:02:00 PM

Hey, maybe we might not want to forget that not all of our soldiers currently overseas are cold-hearted puppy killing bastards. http://baghdadpups.com/

I don't agree with animal cruelty, but these links are doing nothing but painting our troops over seas with the broad brush of being sadistic murderers. Did you see the "US Soldiers Shoot Parent's in front of Children" video? The message seems pretty clear, albeit one-sided. Did you read the comments section? Mission Accomplished! I'd take most of these largely unsubstantiated stories with a fairly large grain of salt. I've got no qualms about folks voicing their displeasure about the administration, but when it comes to the troops I draw the line.

M- and what would you have us do if not train soldiers to kill? Just because you've been trained to kill doesn't mean you've been trained to be a heartless sob. The military doesn't train people to be mindless killing machines. Gen. W.T. Sherman said it best, "War is Hell."

Chip April 11th, 2008 02:10:00 PM

Chip: Thanks for that and for the link...love it.

Here's another positive view from my archives:
http://www.dolittler.com/index.cfm/2007/10/15/pets...%20York%20Times

Dr. Patty Khuly April 11th, 2008 04:02:00 PM

Chip, it's important to talk about, and punish, the abuses. NOT to do so is the greatest insult to the vast majority of the troops--pretending that condemning and punishing the bad apples is condeming "the troops" is essentially saying that the bad apples are typical.

What's far closer to being _typical_ are the soldiers who have rescued dogs, cats, and children caught in the bloodshed in Iraq, and tried to get them out to new homes, or medical treatment, or whatever's appropriate. Let's not insult those soldiers by claiming it's unpatriotic to criticize the tiny minority of bad actors who disgrace the uniform they wear.

Lis April 11th, 2008 09:33:00 PM

I am usually a pretty stoic person emotionally, I mean I may feel the emotion but don't show it, for example the numerous times I am pesent at a euthanasia I don't cry, I can watch those spca fundraising commercials no problem, but that video brought tears to my eyes and broke my heart. I don't care how bored you are, that is unacceptable in so many ways.

Erin RVT

Erin April 11th, 2008 11:47:00 PM

Two comments:

The first is about a soldier near where I lived in Wisconsin: A single man in his thirties who was called up through the Reserves. While in Iraq, he met a ten or eleven year old boy with, cerebral palsy, I believe - physical handicaps anyway. The soldier came home but didn't forget the boy and two years later was able to formally adopt him and bring him to the U.S.

Second, this is very different from the videos of deliberate abuse committed by our soldiers overseas circulating the net, but it's an example that could EASILY be misunderstood. Mine Detection Dogs. These dogs are trained to sniff out mines (obviously). They are matched with a handler as very young dogs and are trained not only to sniff mines, but also to protect their handlers at all costs. Problem: The handler gets shot. Handler is alive but could bleed out if he's not reached immediately. But the dog won't let you near his handler's body. What are soldiers trained to do in this situation (one that my husband actually faced, btw)? They're trained to shoot the dog. Now, the soldiers under my husband's leadership were NOT desensitized to the horrors of war when this happened. They refused the order to shoot. My husband had to do it. It was either that or the dog refusing to even let medical personnel in to care for his handler. Yes, it's cold, hard, and very open to interpretation. But to save the soldier/handler's life, it was necessary. Sucks though and the fact that my husband brings it up every time he picks up an animal cruelty case at work (as a cop) tells me having to shoot that mine dog still bothers him, five years later.

MeriGray April 12th, 2008 12:16:00 AM

Chip, maybe training someone to kill doesn't automatically make them a "heartless sob." But if a person has been trained to kill someone in cold blood, part of the trainee's humanity has been stolen.

What would I have us do instead of training soldiers to kill? I'd remove the need for soldiers. As my sister taught her kids when young, "Use words." If children can do it, surely our commander in chiefs can learn. It's amazing what compassionate discourse can do that just a drop of anger or bitterness or "my way is the only right way" makes impossible.

I also believe that "mean people" are hurting -- whether that be a puppy-tossing soldier or a commander in chief who sentences innocent people to live the rest of their lives with the memory of having maimed someone, taken a life, or seen a buddy blown up beside them.

Ask old soldiers. Once someone is past the blood and glory days of their life (the either/or thinking, the hierarchical model, the immortal years), often wisdom sets in and we can learn from these elders. (The book, The Story of B, by Daniel Quinn, is helpful in understanding where war come from.)

Meri, I'm so glad your husband can talk about that incident. It's the holding it inside that causes problems.

Interesting discussion. Thank you all.

M April 12th, 2008 03:12:00 AM

M, unfortunately, regardless of whether THIS war is necessary or not, we can't avoid having soldiers. The millenium came, but somehow, the human race wasn't transformed into total peace and love. And no, it's not enough to say, "if children can do it, surely our commanders in chief can learn." Until everybody is ready to lay down arms, the ones that do are at risk from those that don't.

"Use words." Great! I'm all for it! Many conflicts could be avoided that way. I firmly believe that the invasion of Iraq was unnecessary. But what about Afghanistan? There'd been a major attack on a US city, thousands killed--and the government of Afghanistan wasn't willing to respond to "words." Action was necessary.

And most soldiers don't come back, even from especially nasty wars like this one, damaged and changed into the kinds of people who commit these terrible acts. They're far more likely to come back like MeriGray's husband, with the memory of what they HAD to do making them more careful about potential cruelty.

Motari's a disgrace to the uniform he wears, not a typical example of what military training or even combat experience does to normal people.

Lis April 12th, 2008 05:40:00 AM

I wonder about the fact that maybe when US soldiers have to wipe out a Iraqi family they also murder the familys pets and lifestock out of mercy for the animals them selves! The soldiers are there to kill people not animals but isint it much more cruel to just murder the human family members and leave behind their pets and livestock to slowly starve slowly ? They suffer the loss of thier human family being wiped out right in front of their innocent eyes ! Im a animal advocate with a very soft heart and i cannot even begin to view the video clips of whats happening to animals in Iraq...so im not a person that has no compassion for animals...the problem is the war, not what the soldiers do to show alittle mercy to the innocent animals that have no voice...they are much worse off than the iraqi family getting murdered just for being iraqi. And as far as US soldiers feeding donkeys to the lions at the iraqi zoo, the were maybe laughing and jeering a bit but at least they were suppling food for the lions that are caged up forgot and have no way to go hit a mcdonalds for a couple double cheese burgers!!! I guess we all have to look at all sides of the story. Is it the US soldiers job to be caregivers for zillions of suddenly ownerless pets and livestock? Who providing food for the zoo animals? Please offer your comments to me at: ravendrake 2009@yahoo.com soldiers mercy

raven drake October 17th, 2008 11:46:00 AM

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