Vet P.O.V. Why pit bulls should go the way of the Supreme Court’s recent ruling on gun control

June 27th, 2008  

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Hi Dr. Khuly, I’ve been a reader of your blog for a long time, and this is my first post of a comment. I’m prompted to comment as I also, although in a different direction, thought about gun control and BSL legislation, and how much they potentially have in common. The connection I made is that banning guns, just like banning specific breeds of dogs, doesn’t address the root causes. I don’t see that banning guns will bring about the desired effect, reducing violent crime. We need to look at lack of education, poverty, and the sense of hopelessness that these bring. Banning guns will “punish” the law-abiding citizens, while other folks will continue to illegally possess guns, and feel a need to use them, for the reasons mentioned above. In the same vein, seeking to eradicate a breed of dog (right now pit bulls, but, as we know, the breed changes), doesn’t address root causes either. While we “punish” responsible dog owners, the root causes go unchecked, and we don’t achieve what we’re looking to. What we should address is at the most egregious dog fighting; but also chaining dogs, lack of socialization and training, spay and neuter, etc., not to mention the whole gansta mentality that supports showing a fearsome appearance, attendant with guns, and dogs, and drugs, and gambling. The same hopelessness personified. We’re never going to get where we want to be by treating the symptoms. Just my .02 worth. Thanks so much for all your posts, and your website, which is a work of art.

Jan June 27th, 2008 02:28:00 PM

Jan: Thanks for your comment, which eloquently echoes my sentiments as well. Keep reading!

Dr. Patty Khuly June 27th, 2008 02:48:00 PM

You are so right...... we need to enforce AND adequately punish PEOPLE who break the laws....NOT the dogs.

Agadoresmama June 27th, 2008 11:18:00 PM

Although there is obviously a huge segment of our population who loves dogs, there are also a lot of people who really don't like them at all. And I think with these people, it seems to be much easier to blame the dog, or the breed, for misdeeds. I remember reading about a dog attack last year - a man was badly bitten by a loose Rottweiler. I'm sure it was a terrifying experience, but I was amazed to read in the interview the man's statement that all Rottweilers should be banned. He said "if there were no Rottweilers, this wouldn't have happened". As pet owners we know how deeply and fundamentally flawed that line of thinking is... but there are a lot of people out there who think the same way.

Barb June 28th, 2008 12:02:00 AM

Bravo, well said! As a population, you would think possible to end corruption in government, the legal system and impose penalties to fit the crime. We can't even get the "system" to enforce the laws. Except maybe some, "not what you know, but WHO you know".

Taking firearms away from "responsible" owners, or banning pitbulls or so called "dangerous dogs", are one and the same, in my book. We support broad-based limitations on freedoms, for the crimes and abuse and violations of law in place.

Barbara A. Albright/New Hampshire June 28th, 2008 03:44:00 PM

BSL is active here in Ontario as are discussions of gun control (and we don't have a constitution that legislates the right to bear arms). It is a mess. The only people following the ban rules (muzzling, speutering etc) are the owners with well-bred, well-behaved, properly socialized pitbulls. There are still many "thugs" who don't give a damn about the BSL. Their dog gets seized and they just find another backyard breeder to get another dog.

It is the same with the guns. Toronto wants to close or move the gun clubs and ranges out of town to help reduce the number of handguns in the city..and these are the hobbyists who take gun safety courses, responsibly store their firearms and do not CARRY THEM AROUND. The people who would carry them around and shoot people don't care if you move the clubs..they have nothing to do with them.

Skewed logic, that.

The gun topic is a sensitive one for me, I know three mothers (and one stepdad) who have lost their children to random gun violence in Toronto in the past month. It has to stop! But punishing the people who responsibly own guns or who responsibly own pitbulls or bully breeds is just idiocy.

I'm afraid I don't have a solution besides systemic change in how we raise our children, the type of punishment meted out to offenders, and massive change in our social services system. Not a small job.

Maggi Burtt June 29th, 2008 07:27:00 PM

Maggi, it is all the inner city violence that prompts gun control legislation. I'm heart-broken and disgusted over every random shooting and the children becoming the victims ---innocent bystanders; families destroyed.

Banning guns to hurt the hobbyist, that enjoys shooting targets or "clay" pigeons, or enjoys a day with a SASS club (single-action shooting society----no alcohol), very responsible folk with safety as priority.

It's not the guns or the dogs that are dangerous weapons, just bad people that use them that way.

Barbara A. Albright/New Hampshire June 29th, 2008 11:37:00 PM

I get where you're coming from, Dr Patty, but I disagree with the fundamental point.

By allowing the dog-killers to do the framing, and then using their common analogy which is an utterly ridiculous one when held up to even minimal scrutiny, we perpetuate the arguments against dog ownership - regardless of the breed, size or shape of dog currently n the sights of those who wish to eliminate them - and repeat their fallacious messaging.

There is absolutely no comparison between dogs - which are living creatures that are one of the safest things around - and inanimate hardware designed and manufactured for only one purpose - to kill using action at a distance.

As pointed out above, in Canada we have no right to bear arms. In fact, we have no property rights at all except through common law and precedent. This is unfortunate but arose because our most left-wing political party, the NDP, doesn't believe in the private ownership of property and refused to sign off on property rights when our Charter was patriated. (Unanimous consent was required to seal the deal.)

While any and all property owners should be alarmed by the malignant pandemic known as breed banning (or mandatory sterilization, insanely complex maintenance restrictions and other anti-dog owner legislation), it is a more abstract principle than just saying that since guns can kill (which is their designated purpose) and dogs can kill (which is such a statistical rarity that it's impossible to analyze in terms of the type of dog involved) the issues are similar.

If anything, the founding principle from the first democracy, Greece, of equal treatment before the law for all citizens should be sufficient in itself to put an end to the witch hunt that is being perpetrated by those with a duplicitous agenda, be they pandering politicians, media or militant animal rights groups.

I do believe that the individual must be protected from the power of the State. I also believe in the presumption of innocence and the right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, among other things.

Most of all though, I believe in equality under the law for everyone - which is what got me into this battle over a mythical dragon in the first place. :>)

Caveat June 30th, 2008 11:41:00 AM

A firearm is a piece if metal that can cause no harm by itself. You can not train a firearm to kill, it is the person who pulls the trigger who kills. A dog is a creature of its own will. Granted, you can/do train an animal to do your bidding, but it is, and always will be, an independent creature. A poorly (or properly, depending on your point of view) trained dog will kill on it's own. A gun will not! Blame the owner? YES! In the case of a dog, blame the dog also. In the case of a gun, it is the owner/operator’s blame only…

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