Ever thought you wanted to be a large animal vet? For a while, I did, too. I was one of those “horsey” girls. You know the ones—played the Pony Club, leased horses in middle school with spare change (or managed to find a way to get their parents to pay for it). They’d do anything for those creatures.
Fast-forward ten years and vet school’s in her sights. But all she hears after subjugating her life to the goal of veterinary medicine is that large animal girls don’t get far—not without the big balls it takes to beat the odds on that particular path.
Nonetheless, she works her a$$ off, beating her XY colleagues at every turn. She aces the tests, puts in double-time hours and slides into home with her surgical board certification just in time for…a pile of rejection letters.
The scenario’s not unheard of. In fact, it’s quite common. Equine vets of the feminine persuasion find the going rough—even more so at its upper echelons.
How much does it suck to find that you’ve gotten board certified in large animal surgery just to find that you can’t find a job? And what would it take to beat someone less qualified than you when it comes to finding the job of your dreams?
Too often, it comes down to a minuscule Y chromosome.
For me, it’s always fun to come back to the topic of women in veterinary medicine. But this time it’s all about the women entering large animal medicine and how that translates in the real world.
Though the powers-that-be at the uppermost levels of the profession may frequently and vociferously decry the dearth of women in large animal medicine (read: equine and agriculture), they’re either unaware of the roadblocks or unwilling to do anything about them.
Part of the problem is that fewer vet students (of any sex) are choosing rural professions. And another portion is the result of fewer students electing to enter a field that specifically discriminates against them.
Women comprise the majority (about 75%) of vet students these days. A large percentage of them (if my experience is any guide) are “horsey girls” who’d happily enter equine or large animal medicine if the environment were conducive to their success.
But the reality proves that women don’t often make it that far.
The mouthpieces of the profession’s large animal sector would have us think that women don’t have the guts to take it on. But my intelligence shows otherwise:
1-Women are often discouraged from entering the field of large animal medicine once in vet school. (It's subtle, but it's there.)
2-Women who (astutely) perceive it’ll be a tough climb sometimes elect for board certification in a particular large animal discipline, assuming their credentials will grant them access.
3-Women are rebuffed, even after committing themselves to this kind of extended veterinary education, with a dearth of options way disproportionate to that offered their male counterparts.
4-Women are too often (unfairly) rejected from entering the profession’s elite, thereby leaving a trail of failed dreams in their wake and ultimately discouraging present students from attempting to follow in their failed footsteps.
Let’s be honest. The veterinary profession is speaking out of both sides of its mouth on this one. But that’s somewhat understandable. Those of us who know vet medicine needs to produce a greater volume of large animal practitioners speak to it with earnest emphasis. Yet the veterinarians with green-light authority do not always act to further these lofty and removed pursuits—they’d rather things stayed the same. Like most of us, they fear change.
That’s why the “horsey girls” can’t get a leg up to save their lives. Those with serious gumption take on low paying jobs and work their way into independent positions free of powers-that-be influence; they pull themselves up from the bootstraps their satisfied clients dangle in front of them.
But that’s no way to encourage a generation of talented women to take on work our nation’s in dire need of—equine, bovine, porcine, poultry or otherwise. Ultimately, something’s got to change in the inner workings of the large animal field to make women want to take on the boys. Offering a real opportunity? That’s just a start.
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I can't believe what I'm reading....all the cries from the rural states and areas in need of large animal vets and the profession discourages women? Why? Are you supposed to be able to lift the horse, cow, or what? (as if anyone else could)
Can you expand on this, Dr. Khuly?
Barbara A. Albright/New Hampshire August 27th, 2008 10:10:00 PM
It sounds similar to the situation in the physical sciences too. The people currently "in power" can serve either as gatekeepers, or as enablers, and unfortunately they too often choose the former rather than the latter.
zandperl August 27th, 2008 10:28:00 PM
If anything, horses might be more likely to behave with a female vet - intuition and being better able to read body language, as well as more likely to be gentle but firm.
A local vet years back was afraid of horses. Would hand over any medication you asked for, including injections, but didnt like going near the actual horse. He got a lot of diagnoses wrong, because he didnt get close enough to properly tell what was going on.
Robin August 27th, 2008 11:48:00 PM
Barbara: The profession does not publicly discourage women in large animal medicine. The AVMA certainly does not take the view that women should not enter large animal practice. I strongly believe that the culture of large animal medicine, beginning in vet school, is what's to blame for
women's perceived lack of interest secondary to discouraging remarks from faculty and staff, the lack of role models (particularly in orthopedic/surgical disciplines), and outright favoritism shown the males with interest.
It's my view that the culture of large animal medicine perceives women to be likely to lose interest and defect to small animals once childbearing years arrive. But this kind of discouragement happens in a micro setting, not at the macro level where it's obvious that channeling *anyone* into large animals, even if only for a few years, is a good thing.
Dr. Patty Khuly August 28th, 2008 08:43:00 AM
This post struck a chord with me because I was one of those girls as a pre-teen. (Well, maybe a "goaty-girl" more than a "horsey-girl", but same idea.) I wanted to be a vet, and I wanted to work on farm animals.
Although I may have eventually turned away from it for other reasons, I can still remember having a conversation with my grandfather who told me it would be fine for me to be a pet vet, but I would probably never have the physical strength to be a large animal vet. He was a wonderful grandfather, but definitely behind the times in his thinking on women's professions.
Meryl August 28th, 2008 03:35:00 PM
Gee, I'm sitting here thinking of all the large animal vets I've encountered (a dozen or more) and full 50% were women. I assume the women are better because they had to work harder.
Any horse owner can assure you that a girl can do anything with horses a boy can. Most of the times, better. Rare is the man who is not an idiot when it comes to prey animals, particularly big ones. (Yes, I'm putting that in writing!)
Dr. K, do you think this schism is at least partially a result of who is paying the bills? As in, the average horse-owning chick isn't financing the vet's practice, the farmers and big time competitors are. A majority of whom are male.
Deanna August 28th, 2008 08:17:00 PM
Deanna: I think its more likely that vets who own large animal practices are concerned that farm owners (clients in general) won't accept the new female vet, regardless of whether it's true or not.
Dr. Patty Khuly August 28th, 2008 08:36:00 PM
In response to some emails I just wanted to point out (for full disclosure) that most of my views on this subject were informed by my experience in vet school a full decade and a half ago now. Though most of my female colleagues at the time turned a blind eye to discrimination against them (whether by refusing to point fingers, make waves or accept the truth) it was there in spades.
While things may have changed, a recent conversation with a female veterinary surgeon described the misfortunes of three other young, female large animal surgeons whose careers shifted dramatically after they were unable to find jobs (in spite of their board certification in the discipline). And this was in the past five or so years.
All of these women supposedly have stories of being passed over for positions, which were granted men in their stead, of course. (In one case the man selected wasn't even through with his education.) Granted, this is heresay, but in this small world of vet medicine these stories don't often get confabulated (too many of us know each other to make these things up). Moreover, the allegations conform exactly to my large animal vet school experience.
Dr. Patty Khuly August 29th, 2008 08:56:00 AM
"All of these women supposedly have stories of being passed over for positions, which were granted men in their stead, of course."
Are there more women or men applying for large animal jobs? If there's more men than women it's just statistics that there's likely to be a more qualified man than a woman who applies. If there's more women applying than men, then it's just statistics that it's probably discrimination
zandperl August 29th, 2008 09:03:00 AM
I know of two female DVMs who were board certified large animal surgeons (horses) who have recently switched to do small animal because they could not fins large animal jobs. One of these is a classmate of mine (we graduated in 1997) and the other is not a person I have met, just am aware of out on Long Island.
I started on the horsey track myself, and it was impossible to find a job out of school that wanted to pay me. I was willing to work long hours and be on call, but I felt that being offered $25K a year and being expected to default on student loans (! and I had handled my undergrad in such a way that I had no debt there--and I did not borrow the entire vet education) was ludicrous. I ended up at a mixed animal practice where I had a male employer who absolutely did not want to train a female vet. The atmosphere at that job was outrageously and unnecessarily stressful 24/7 (I lived over the practice. Never do this.) and I left after 10 months, which was 9 months later than I should have gone.
I do occasionally wonder what would have happened if I had found a kinder horse practice, because working on small animals (and seeing a large percentage of exotics/avians) in a suburb of NYC was certainly not what I had in mind when I signed up.
drsteggy August 30th, 2008 10:18:00 AM
Dr. Steggy, your post highlights many of the reasons why I -- as a pet owner -- applaud the gender trends in veterinary medicine. The very reasons why the KPMG study sounded the alarm over increasing numbers of women in the profession (women wanting flexible schedules, women wanting to take time off to have or raise kids, women working fewer hours - fewer than what? 80 a week? -- women pricing their services lower, which in and of itself is not necessarily a good thing but may say something important about VALUES) . . . are the reasons I think the trend is GOOD.
No one should have to deal with such employment conditions (in any field) and if a practice owner runs his staff ragged, pays them so very little, etc. -- you can bet it's having a negative impact on the quality of patient care.
By demanding a sane and reasonable work schedule, demanding to be allowed to have a life outside work, and demanding decent living (but still pricing services with an eye toward fairness rather than maximal profit to the limit of what the market will bear) female vets will hopefully have a very positive impact on the culture of vet med. Maybe I am naiive - and there are undoubtedly some exploitative, profit driven female vets who don't treat their employees well and don't put a high premium on quality in patient care. But . . . my own impression (biases?) and my reading of many many records from across the country lead me to believe that this type of behavior is more often the domain of male practice owners.
It really doesn't have to be that way, and the old guard just can't stand to see their culture evolve and their old ways die.
Stefani August 30th, 2008 11:43:00 AM
Stefani, at the moment, most practices are still owned by men, which is why they make up the bulk of the evil practice owner stories. I know several female practice owners that aren't better than some of the men I've worked with. I think its more the personality type that wants to own a practice is what drives the bad side of it--I have worked for 4 practices, 3 owned by men and one by a group of vets (it was managed by a non DVM woman, and she was no walk in the park) and every one of them have had varying degrees of control freakishness. The worst one was the first guy, the second guy and the woman are about neck and neck and something recently has changed in the upper eschelons at my current place of employment that makes me start taking stock and wonder if I want to continue to work there.
I'd hesitate to say that having women take over is going to usher in some golden age of veterinary management. IME, working with women can, if you're another woman, have all sorts of political angles that I don't experience with MOST male bosses. It would be nice to set the gender politics aside and realize that we got into this biz to provide services and care to help make some part of the world a little better, if that's saving the pet parakeet or making sure the filet mignon had a decent and cow appropriate life.
drsteggy August 30th, 2008 12:01:00 PM
From my perspective Dr. Steggy, we all have experienced dreams dashed and career/job disappointments, but when do those affect your basic moral values ? In your small circle of alma mater, you may have been influenced by attitudes and practice in a negative way, and that calls for change, too.
Barbara A. Albright/New Hampshire August 30th, 2008 12:17:00 PM
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