Vet P.O.V. Animal welfare dogfight: California’s Proposition 2 pits vets against vets

September 20th, 2008  

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I live in California, and was interested to see you addressing this topic. Prop 2 is getting a lot of support out here, including donations from me :), and I am hopeful that it will pass. I didn't know about the brouhaha within the veterinary community over it, though. It seems almost a case of all or nothing: "either the prop get it all right now, take everything into consideration for the animals ultimate welfare, or else we don't support it." Not to simplify too much, but that is how it seems from reading your post. I think as a society, though, we are pretty far from doing "all the animals need", particularly in regard to agricultural animals, and that is why I plan to vote for Prop 2 - we've got to start somewhere. And you're right - there's a lot of time between now and 2015 to make adjustments. But we must at least begin.
Thanks for the thoughtful post - wish you lived out here so you could vote for it! :)

Amanda M. September 20th, 2008 12:01:00 PM

Proposition 2 is extremely inadequate, but it is the first step, hopefully, to more legislation for real humane farming. I doubt the Californians know the limited "humane" farming of Proposition 2.

The AVMA is notorious for siding with the agricultural community, and specifically, the USDA. Their objections to more humane treatment for a certain group of animals, more than boggles the mine.

Here we have factory farming. The AVMA also supports the heinous slaughter of American horses (for consumption overseas). The majority of Americans and Congress are for a ban on horse slaughter.

The CEO's of the AVMA definitely have a vested interest, meaning $$$, in not endorsing laws to even curb the brutal, inhumane suffering of animals.

I know a majority of veterinarians are shamed of their association that has the oath to not cause suffering to animals.

Ronnie September 20th, 2008 02:07:00 PM

To be perfectly honest, the AVMA and many sub chapters aren't doing much or enough to protect any animals, including companion pets, working/racing and research animals. My thoughts are that prop 2 is a start & enlightenment issue.

So many individual states debate & argue over wording that often, nothing happens. And this goes for "simple" animal welfare & cruelty statutes. Gosh, much to a few states credit, but horror over being behind the times---a few have just upgraded euthanasia laws and banned gas/monoxide chambers.

Diversity in any large organization, group, club is just a fact. Taking my employment for example: delegates to national union/association conventions are mostly long retirees that have no clue what current working conditions/agreements are and often vote with outdated thinking. It's our fault---we send them every year!

Dog/breed national clubs are no different. I belong to two :Sealyham & Scottish Terrier. The philosophy and supported practices are like opposite ends of the earth. I wish I could meld the positives of each and get rid of what I view as the negatives.

And to be more honest, I liken many distasteful practices of the AKC to the AVMA. All in the name of $$$, but then again, who is out there in support with $$$ to fund genetic research/advanced diagnosis and treatment of individual breed disease? (And I refer to humane, non-invasive, non-life-ending, non-diminished quality of life research)

Barbara A. Albright/New Hampshire September 20th, 2008 09:47:00 PM

Ronnie: Not every welfare-minded thinking person sides with a ban on equine slaughter. The "unintended consequences" of this ban are already being felt across the equine world: Inhumane Mexican saughterhouses taking up the slack, horses starving in fields.

In this case, the AVMA is in lockstep with its equine veterinarian base--most approve of slaughter for horses, especially in this withering economy where feed for horses is expensive and scarce.

It's easy for congressional members to stand up and say 'no' to slaughtering horses but none of them has to look a starving horse in the eye, wishing her 'owners' would do the right thing and come up with the hundreds of dollars it costs to euthanize her and dispose of her remains.

I am certainly no mouthpiece for the AVMA but on equine slaughter I believe my profession's organization got t right.

Dr. Patty Khuly September 21st, 2008 09:56:00 AM

I hope it passes... just one more tiny step towards making Happy Cows commercials an accurate representation of California facilities

Charity September 21st, 2008 05:57:00 PM

Gosh, I must be really stoo-pid. People are feeling the pinch of the economy and letting perfectly healthy horses starve to death before their eyes? How on earth can this be?

The days of horse drawn fruit carts are gone and plowing in the fields...so these horses were obtained to ride, right? (or race). So no humane society will take them? No way to rehome them?

Makes me think of a story an older person told me of years ago, when small farms were common. The weak and sick animals were taken to the "woods", shot and bodies left for the coyotes, wolves, etc. to consume.

Barbara A. Albright/New Hampshire September 22nd, 2008 05:42:00 PM

Barbara,

There's an article about unwanted horses here: http://www.defhr.org/press/unwantedhorses.htm

Tara September 22nd, 2008 07:25:00 PM

Tara, I visited the site & read the page. And it surprised me further to see the origin is MD., a state I consider predominently well to do.

Another "disposable" animal; only muchg larger and difficult to rehome. I found the average quoted price of $500 unbelievable---less than I paid for a pick-show quality Scottie in 1990.

Still, allowing animals to starve to death in lieu of alternatives, is inexcusable

Barbara A. Albright/New Hampshire September 22nd, 2008 08:29:00 PM

Whether prop 2 passes or not, everyone has the option of buying free range/humanely raised food right now. Increase demand and the supply will follow - we don't have to wait for govt intervention. I find it odd that with so many people supporting this policy they haven't demanded that humane practices be implemented with their own pocket book.

Vote with your dollars!

MichelleD September 26th, 2008 11:55:00 AM

There are rescues,. there are also alternatives to letting your horse starve. Euthanasia is not that expensive,.. compare it with the cost of small animal veterinary care and you'll be shocked how little it costs to dispose of such a large animal. Additionally, in many states, if you have land, it's legal to let a humanely euthed horse lie and rot with minimal coverage.

Jenn September 29th, 2008 10:59:00 AM

Tara,

"Days End Farm Horse Rescue" was singled-out by the few *pro-horse slaughter legislators in the Judiciary Committee Hearing for HR 6598, "Prevention of Equine Cruelty Act," last week. This bill to ban horse slaughter is on the books to be voted on in this 110th Congressional Session, before Jan. 09.

The pro-horse slaughter Reps. who chose this rescue to single-out are also on the Agriculture Committee (Dept. Of Agriculture), notorious for backing by pro-slaughter equine organizations. Very "telling."

"Days End Farm Horse Rescue" was the ONLY rescue noted in this Hearing when the majority of horse RESCUES (& NOT sanctuaries) NEVER advocate horse slaughter, nor send their horses to slaughter as Days End Farm does as "euthanasia."

For just one example, see the following link to "Pure Thoughts Horse Rescue (FL)."
"Unwanted Horses" is addressed. And there are links that are very informative, especially, "Auction" and "The Triumph Project.".

http://www.purethoughtshorserescue.com/

The AVMA is against Proposition 2 and is pro-horse slaughter. So veterinarians needed to take action due to the inhumane stand and practices of their veterinary flagship, the AVMA. "The Veterinarians for Equine Welfare (VEW)" is a large organization of vets against horse slaughter. They give well-researched and comprehensive data about "Unwanted Horses."

Please look at their web site with many *links and...*videos.

http://www.vetsforequinewelfare.org/white_paper.ph...

Knowledge and education = the truth.

Very Respectfully,

Ronnie
Massachusetts

Ronnie September 29th, 2008 03:08:00 PM

"Adjustments?"

The california initiative system makes it VERY difficult to "adjust" a voter initiative once it's been passed. I would strongly suggest all of you who are voting for this because you expect "adjustments" to be made that fix its shortcomings to think twice about your vote.

See http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/California_I... --
"The legislature cannot amend or repeal an initiative, unless doing so is explicitly permitted by the initiative."

And there is nothing in proposition 2 that allows amendments or legislative repeal.

Better to wait for a good law than get stuck with a bad law because you hope it'll somehow become good before going into effect.

Ken T October 14th, 2008 05:33:00 PM

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