Here's PETA's factsheet on feeding dogs and cats a vegan diet:
http://www.downbound.com/Vegan_Cat_Food_s/243.htm

For the record, I feel much the same about feeding dogs a vegan diet. Though I think it's more nutritionally and practically do-able (many dogs will eat anything you feed them, as evidenced by their adoration of many corn-based commercial pet foods), it's not optimal.

Dr. Patty Khuly November 1st, 2008 10:05:00 AM

I love your suggestion of combining vegan foods with free range/grass fed meat. (It still seems to me that my cats do best on whole prey model raw, but yeah. Who feeds that.) The only widely available commercial petfood I know that even *claims* to have humanely sourced meat is Newman's Organics, and (with all due respect to the Newman Foundation), I'm skeptical of the degree of humanity implied by organic certification.

I have a question that I've never seen answered. Why are insects never used in cat foods? Cats seem happy enough to eat them. I've been told that natural breeds like African Sokokes rely on them as a protein source. I'm not talking about an insect only diet, but anyone ever looked into this possibility at all?

deidrel November 1st, 2008 10:31:00 AM

While I am a vegetarian and have been for the past 15 years, I would never subject my cats to a vegetarian lifestyle. I agree with Gina, that to make a canivourous animal follow a vegan diet because of our personal philosophy is cruel and abusive. An old friend of the family has a vegan dog and I've always disagreed with her practices. She preaches that I should 'adapt' my cats to a 'kinder' way of living by having them give up meat and meat by products and I argue that living a vegan lifestyle, can be a healthy lifestyle for person, is counterintuitive in cats.

Shannon November 1st, 2008 10:35:00 AM

to be a vegetarian or a vegan is a personal choice...not mine...but to force a choice that is contrary to an animals dietary heath needs....couldn't that actually be construed as abusive?

Cats are not vegetarians. Nor would they choose wheat over mice in the wild. There is a scientific reason for this. I do not believe supplements and tofu aside, a cat's dietary and long term health needs can be met with a non meat diet. Sounds like neglect to me.

I agree with Gina....get a rabbit.

LorriM November 1st, 2008 11:46:00 AM

Amazing stupidity.

Christopher Landauer November 1st, 2008 11:49:00 AM

A survey was done some time back on some of the vegetarian PETA dogs. You can read about it at http://www.helpinganimals.com/pdfs/Dog_Health_Surv...

Although generally positive, it found that "there was a direct correlation between heart disease and length of time as a vegan or vegetarian: All dogs with heart disease had been vegan for at least four years or vegetarian for at least 10 years. . . . All dogs with dilated cardiomyopathy had been vegan for at least four years. Dilated cardiomyopathy has until recently been considered a terminal illness, but, of the five dogs in the study who had it, three recovered by taking supplements of either L-carnitine or taurine (amino acids). There is a good deal of evidence correlating dilated cardiomyopathy with both genetic factors and a deficiency in either L-carnitine or taurine. (This phenomenon has been seen to a greater extent in cats.)" They claim supplements will prevent dilated cardiomyopathy, but that didn't help 40% of the dogs in this study (and supplements are more difficult to give to cats).

The survey also found that urinary tract infections were increased in dogs fed a vegetarian or vegan diet. I went looking to see if I could find any information about this problem in cats, and found a site that sells vegan cat food, but now encourages people to add meat to the food because of the increase in FUS:
http://www.vegancats.com/pages/1007/FAQ.htm#1070
"Urinary tract problems are extremely common in cats and, because of the relative acidity of meat to vegetable protein, many vegan cats suffer from them."

The survey also talks about the use of soy to replace meat protein. "Since all the commercial vegetarian dog foods eaten by the dogs in the study contained soy, very few dogs had no soy products in their diets — only 39 (13%). However, these 39 dogs were in substantially better health than the others. . . . Also, the incidence of skin problems was much lower in the dogs who ate no soy — only two dogs (5.1%) had skin problems compared with 10.7% of the dogs who ate soy products."

The survey also found that adding garlic to the diet improved health, but garlic is dangerous for cats.

Since cats are even more dependent on meat than dogs are, it makes sense that they would have even more problems on a vegetarian or vegan diet. There's also the issue of hepatic lipidosis if they refuse to eat the vegetarian food for more than a day or two.

I wanted to add to possible solutions the feeding of very high-quality foods that use hormone- and antibiotic-free meats or organic meats. There is even one brand, Pet Promise, that uses meat from animals raised humanely, many on family farms.

I agree completely with Gina's comments that you quoted. People who are unwilling to feed their pets an appropriate diet shouldn't own them.

Mary Straus November 1st, 2008 12:28:00 PM

Given the number of times my cats tried to scale my leg while I cooked chicken breasts or cut up a ham, I'm pretty certain they had no moral objections to eating meat.

I'm certainly not going to try put any moral imperatives on them!

And being a meat eater, if I had bunnies, I wouldn't be trying to feed them meat.

You feed your critters what is best for THEIR health, not what is good for your conscience.

Cindy November 1st, 2008 12:42:00 PM

Over my career the one story that sticks out is the big cats with rickets so bad that they could not move courtesy of the bible believers who tried to force the big cats to become a vegetarian so they could "lie down with the lamb."

I agree with Gina such efforts are animal abuse, selfish, and irresponsible. Using a little common sense can go a long way but these days it seems like a whole lot of people are missing that little piece.

Diana Guerrero November 1st, 2008 01:25:00 PM

I was a midwife for many years, and the one group of clients I eventually stopped accepting into my practice were vegans. My conscience didn't allow me to enable anyone to treat her body/her baby that way. Early in my career when I had vegan clients, I quickly found that they had the same problems during pregnancy: anemia, pre-eclampsia which sometimes turned into outright eclamptic episodes, limp dull hair, bad skin and breath, and a slew of other problems.

Our bodies aren't meant to be vegans, at least not long term. I have no problem with lacto-vegetarians. I have a huge problem with anyone forcing an animal to eat that which is not its normal and optimial diet. I agree with the other posters- how is it any better to force a cat to be a vegan than to force cattle to eat the sub-standard diets used on many factory farms? The entire idea is ludicrous, and cruel in the extreme.

Cindy November 1st, 2008 02:04:00 PM

Dr Patty,
I am interested in sourcing their food from more humane sources though. Do you have any good resources that you can reccommend for someone from from Canada?

Thanks

Shannon November 1st, 2008 03:01:00 PM

Our cat is allergic to various plant and animal ingredients used in cat foods: ruminants (lamb
and beef), flax, nightshades (tomatoes and potatoes), rice (!!), brewers yeast. I avoid
all the catfoods with any of the above. What's left is some very high meat content canned
goods, like EVO Ancestral 95% chicken & turkey, Van Patten Natural Balance chicken liver
pate, a California Naturals herring & sweet potato kibble, Royal Canin Duck & green pea
kibble. The cheap brands are out of the question, because they have ingredients listed like
"liver" (not specified what kind), or "meat" something. With those sharp little teeth and her wonder-kitty speed, she was NOT meant to be a vegan. As it is, I'm constantly looking for catfoods that don't contain the forbidden ingredients. She doesn't have a weight problem, but
she is a picky eater. For supplements, we are offering what can be squeezed out of a 1000 mg Trader Joe Salmon Oil gel cap on alternate days, over about a tablespoon of wet cat food.
(These gel caps are sold in the people vitamin section, but our vet read the bottle and said
this is just fine for a 6.75 pound cat.)

I'm not vegan myself, but I eat lots of vegetarian or vegetable-heavy meals, and I eat eggs,
dairy and some meat, usually in small servings. This is for MY health and weight issues,
because I'm not an obligate carnivore. My cat is, and I think it's cruel to try to make her
a vegan.

Miss Kitty's Mom November 1st, 2008 04:48:00 PM

I have 2 dogs and 3 rabbits. I do not feed the dog a vegan/vegitarian diet and I do not feed the rabbits meat. They were not designed to eat that way. If I have cats, I would feed them meat like I do my dogs.

If you want to feed vegan, maybe try a grocery store brand of food. There is almost no actual meat in them (a host of other crap, but no meat).

There is probably a good reason wolves and lions don't raid wheat and corn fields.

Kate M November 1st, 2008 05:30:00 PM

Here, here!

Great post, Dr. K. And yet another great quote from the fabulous Gina S.

I have several clients who are vegetarian/vegan, and NONE feed a similar diet to their dogs or cats. Some have inquired about the possibility of doing so, but a quick peek at the teeth of our store cat and a humorously posed "do THOSE look like salad eaters to YOU?" generally ends the discussion. We usually don't even have to get into discussing amino acids, which is really where the important argument lies. (along with the "stuff-we-don't-even-know-about-yet" category")

I do, however, have one gentleman who insists on feeding his dog Natural Balance vegetarian. He insists that his dog is healthy and has a nice shiny coat. I of course, argued that outward appearance has nothing to do with internal health, and recommended a full blood chemistry profile on a fairly regular basis to ensure that his dog was maintaining a good level of wellbeing on this diet.

Well, recently the gentleman brought in his dog. The dog is vicious, vicious, vicious. We joke now (tongue in cheek of course, because frankly there's not one of us who doesn't secretly want this guy looked at for cruelty) about the dog who's so protein starved that it's trying to eat dogs and people. It's also about 25% overweight (excess carbs, anyone?) and does not appear to me to be the "picture of health" he described in any fashion.

I had the pleasure of reading Gina's article back when it was originally written, and I use a few lines from it now and then... including "if you want to feed something vegetables, get a rabbit, drop the cat off at the front door."

Kim November 1st, 2008 06:43:00 PM

Thanks for this post Dr. K, I think its an important one.

I am a vegan, and as a result have a very wonderful pet rabbit-no ethical problems there!

However, I plan on getting a dog soon, which I have thought long and hard about. I know many vegans who feed their animals meat but settle with regular pet food. I'd bet my house that the animals whose various parts end up in commercial pet foods are treated inhumanely and even subjected to cruelty.

I know it can't work for everyone, but when I get a dog I plan to raise him on animals we raise on our farm (organic laying hens and the organs from organic beef cattle raised by my father in law).

I too think it is wrong to feed cats and dogs vegan diets, but please don't throw all caution to the wind. See if you can find organic, humanely raised (see the farm yourself) meats for your pets.

Julia November 1st, 2008 09:40:00 PM

"Considering the likely prevalence of an understandable distaste for standard commercial feline food among vegans or vegetarians, however, it strikes me as odd that no one’s ever asked me about humanely raised meat alternatives."

I saw a discussion on a food blog in which a foodie wondered why vegetarians/vegans could not work together with conscientious meat-eaters on raising humane standards for meat animals. Short answer: many vegans/vegetarians believe it's morally wrong to eat an animal. To them, there is no difference in various methods used to raise and kill animals for food because they should not be killed in the first place. I have heard the word "murder" bandied about a lot. You can't really argue with morals using logic, so we get vegan cats.

Personally, I'm vegetarian for food-quality reasons, but feed my pets food high enough in quality that I do not have safety concerns about it.

Nena November 2nd, 2008 02:03:00 AM

Re:

"strikes me as odd that no one’s ever asked me about humanely raised meat alternatives"

I totally agree here.

I have "gone veggie" twice in the last 10 years for stints of 1 and 2 years respectively (sadly, once I've fallen off the wagon I have a hard time getting back on, but among flesh I eat only poultry and salmon, the latter wild caught whenever possible). So I understand and even admire vegans. I think it's a laudable thing to strive for. (A vet I know through my fostering work recently shared with me her struggles in trying to be a pure vegan, explaining to me that most SUGAR isn't vegan -- something about using bone to get the sugar out of the cane? Her search for vegan sugar was on. Seems its nearly impossible to be totally vegan -- you couldn't even buy tires for your car.)

Having said that though, I think it's cruel and irresponsible to try to make your cats vegan or veggie. The host of health problems you will almost certainly be inviting cannot, in my mind, be justified. It's like tormenting and in many ways starving your loved ones, your family members, for some wider principle. Better to re-home your kitties than do this. We already know that diets high in carb and grain have been implicated in feline diabetes. I'm sure there are other deficiencies you could enumerate associated with depriving cats of meat.

It is one thing to say that we as humans have a choice. That's true. But it's another to deny nature - there are obligate carnivores, and that includes cats. It is the way of nature for many animals to kill for food, and if we who own cats can't reconcile ourselves to this, we shouldn't have obligate carnivores under our rooves.

I also don't understand why these owners don't seek out humanely raised alternatives.

In general, frankly, I think the groups that promote vegetarianism and veganism often miss a huge opportunity to improve the lives of animals raised for food. By taking a totally abolitionist stance rather than addressing the alternative of humanely raised and humanely slaughtered animals, they miss out on creating more market demand for the latter. If more people become vegan or veggie great, but many people will not, and by taking an "all or nothing" approach to the issue, I think a chance is missed to make a real impact.

Cat owners need to be educated that cats should NOT be forced into veganism. They are what they are -- carnivores -- and failing to feed them appropriately is a kind of abuse.

Stefani November 2nd, 2008 07:26:00 AM

I do hope more vegetarians and vegans will consider humanely raised pet foods. I have been vegetarian for over 10 years and I was vegan for 3 of those years. I have been feeding a raw meat diet to my dogs and cats for 9 years now and I always use humanely raised and cage-free sources for them. It is certainly do-able.

Leanne November 2nd, 2008 08:35:00 AM

On the insects: I don't see why not. Humans do well with insect protein, too. The problem is that there's no commercially available supply of insects. I think we'd have to get past our modern human distaste for insect protein before we could consider this a reasonable way to feed our pets.

On the sources for humanely raised meats in Canada (and anywhere, really): You just have to visit the farm or meet people you trust who have visited the farm. Joining your local CSA (community supported agriculture) group is the idea way to meet these knowledgeable people. You'd be surprised at how helpful these groups can be--even just via email.

Dr. Patty Khuly November 2nd, 2008 08:53:00 AM

One other thing: I'd heard tangentially (or read it somewhere) about a group of road-kill pet feeders. In other words, freshly dead meats on the side of the road were made available to pets of the dead animal finders. This may seem like a stretch (after all, you really don't know what these animals are being exposed to), but it did make me think that we're overlooking a lot of meat sources.

For example: In South Florida we have way too many iguanas. They don't belong here and they're causing lots of problems with our native vegetation.Some Central American immigrants have taken to eating them and I think it's a great idea for our cats, too.

Although parasitism (with liver flukes) is a possibility, the meat could easily be cooked for our cats. Catching them is easy, too. All you have to do is wait for a cold snap. That's when they fall out of the trees in torpor.

This might seem like a stretch, too, but it's a viable alternative if you have a freezer big enough to hold a year's worth of iguana. Why not, right?

Dr. Patty Khuly November 2nd, 2008 09:00:00 AM

Cindy, I think you are extremely unethical and spiteful. I would never want someone like you delivering my children. Midwives in general tend to follow a holistic approach, and i cannot imagine having my children addicted to unnatural dairy products and antibiotic infused meat. You discriminate against a group trying to do what is best.

The idea of "humane" meat is laughable at best, as it doesn't exist. Our dogs do eat an organic diet which includes meat (i cringe, but i do what's best for them), which is much better than disgusting factory farmed products and other questionable fillers. Do you honestly think it's healthier for dogs to eat their own kind full of euthanization chemicals, or a veg diet? That is certainly up for debate as a lot of you seem to have no problem with disgusting sub par dog foods. Perhaps that is animal abuse as well! Do some research on what goes into traditional dog food.

Lifetime Vegan November 2nd, 2008 10:28:00 AM

LifeTime Vegan -- since I am one of the people who made a reference to abuse, I want to clarify: I did not express an opinion about dogs. I am going to reserve judgement on the topic of vegetarian diets for dogs. Dogs, I believe, are omnivores, so it may be more feasible there.

Cats, however, are not omnivores and their systems have been especially designed to convert protein into the energy they need. Their "ripping" teeth and the absence of grinding teeth are another example of how they have been specifically designed to eat meat.

I don't disagree with you about the deplorable content of commercially available foods, but for cats, veganism isn't an alternative. It would be nice if it were but it's just not.

Stefani November 2nd, 2008 11:06:00 AM

Lifetime Vegan:

I think you should take a step back and consider the words you are using before putting them in print.

Calling someone "spiteful" and "unethical" because he or she has made such a decision is uncalled for.

There are many such examples in the world. I won't give training advice to dogs on veggie diets, for example. I won't give holistic treatment advice to people with ill dogs who won't consider a diet change, because it's my belief that until the diet is changed, the rest is for naught. I won't sell a tie-out to anyone who admits to me to have an "outdoor" dog, or a muzzle to a puppy for "training purposes" for barking or nipping. The simple reasoning is that if these people want to do things that I personally believe are harming their pets either physically or psychologically, that's their perogative... but I won't take part in it. I won't condone it. I won't have any part in turning the other cheek and pretending like it's ok.

At the same time, we've been through a half dozen vets or more who refused to treat our pets because we have our own vaccination schedule, choose not to use heartworm preventatives, and use a raw diet from time to time (we would 100% of the time, but due to the fact that we rescue and therefore care for a large number of dogs, it's not logistically feasible).

If Cindy has had poor experiences in the past with vegan diets producing sick or endangered babies (not agreeing that every vegan baby is this way, but certainly any diet has the potential to go wrong, and vegan diets in particular must be particularly well-balanced and carefully thought out... and it's quite possible that Cindy's experience has been limited to those people who are eating imbalanced vegan diets), then she has every right to refuse to take part in what she considers a practice not in the best interests of the very being she is there to protect.

To this day, I continue to send raw food analyses, information and any available data I can get to those vets who have blown me off in the past and refused treatment, in the hopes that one day they will, instead of turning away raw feeders, be well-versed enough to be able to provide guidance to ensure that their clients are feeding an appropriately balanced raw diet. And if they are not, well, I support their right to terminate their services.

Perhaps instead of berating Cindy and resorting to name calling and mudslinging, you could instead point her in the direction of some hard data to support your position, or engage her in a civil discussion/debate about the issue at hand.

Very few of us around here have ever fully agreed on anything, be it euthanasia, nutrition, vaccination, heartworm preventative, flea treatment, parasites, feral colonies, etc, etc, etc. But we (generally) always manage a civil argument whereby all sides are able to present their viewpoints without the fear of being flamed or berated for our beliefs. Even if someone comes out and calls us wrong, it is done with respect, with facts and with a coolheaded retort.

*even if some of us DO occasionally resort to babbling essays. ;O)

Kim November 2nd, 2008 11:54:00 AM

"The idea of "humane" meat is laughable at best, as it doesn't exist." -- Lifetime vegan

I believe it does. The choice is not between factory farmed meat or processed pet food, as you've expressed it. There is a third way, and it's seeking out local sources fo rthe meat of humanely and sustainably raised food animals. Or even raising your own, if you have room and zoning for some poultry (or rabbits, although I myself just couldn't go there).

This is my third way. In my own diet I choose to pay more for sustainably raised and humanely treated and slaughtered meat, but I also choose to eat less of it because it's a small part of my diet, not the main course as I was raised to believe it should be.

For my dogs and cats, they eat the meat of animals who weren't tortured by corporate agro-biz in factory farms.

You're fooling yourself if you believe nothing died for the food you eat. On massive corporate agri-holdings, all manner of life is taken in the fields -- insects, nesting birds, rodents. You're just as big a killer as the rest of us, honey, no matter how high on your moral high horse you like to think you are.

The difference is that I respect the circle of life, and I accept that we all have a place in it. And I demand that in feeding myself and my carnivorous companions no food animal has to suffer more than what life brings us all as part of just being alive.

Death by predator isn't a pretty thing, and life by factory farm isn't pretty either. So I choose consciously to do the best I can for the animals who die so that I may live, and choose to support sustainable, humane local farmers.

You make your choices as you wish. We all do. But kid yourself about the ramifications of those choices. Read some biology instead of PETA tracts. You might learn something.

Gina Spadafori November 2nd, 2008 12:32:00 PM

And by the way ... raising infants and young children under a vegan protocol is generally not recommended or supported outside of the animal-rights community:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/21/opinion/21planck...

Gina Spadafori November 2nd, 2008 04:04:00 PM

I eat a mostly vegan diet, and as terrible as I think many factory-farmed animals are treated, I cannot for the life of me imagine attempting to make my cats eat a vegan diet. They're carnivores, and I'm sure you can imagine how excited they get when I bring sashimi home for them (white tuna is their favorite, followed by "white fish"). However, I had a super-vegan friend (who was totally unhealthy herself) who tried to force her cat to eat a vegan diet - the cat lost a few pounds, and no amount of arguing from me would convince her to change her mind. I ended up reporting her for animal abuse and, as you can imagine, we weren't friends again after that.

Sidney November 3rd, 2008 09:44:00 AM

So many vegetarians seem to be cat-lovers in my experience. I've always found it a bit weird for the reasons above.. whereas me, a meat eater, wouldn't like a cat partly because of the hunting they do-I've got a rabbit.

Sian November 3rd, 2008 10:48:00 AM

Dr. Patty, thanks for bringing up the local/humanely raised meat. I feed raw and I'm a member of a raw co-op, and I buy items in bulk for both the dogs and my husband and I. I like knowing the exact locations that the meat is coming from (a farm about 1.5 hours east) and their practices. Fortunately since I buy in bulk I also am not going broke to do so. I understand not everyone has this option, but I urge people that if the option is there to take it. There's very little meat I buy at the grocery store anymore.

Carissa November 3rd, 2008 11:02:00 AM

Cats need vegan diets about as much as humans need animal products to be healthy. (Not at all.)

Erin November 4th, 2008 05:31:00 PM

I am a vegetarian-verging-on-vegan, and I feel very strongly about this. I would NEVER force such a diet on my cats. NEVER.

While it is true that I have made the choice to forego meat and am working to phase out eggs and dairy as well, that's the key: It was my CHOICE. I became informed about my choice--the risks, the consequences, the heightened challenge of finding acceptable foods. Cats do not have the same resources, nor the voice of objection that we do.

I feel that it is cruel.

That said, if my monetary situation improves (as well as my own health and my schedule,) I WILL be seeking out humanely raised meat and trying to make their food, rather than buying it.

My two cents.
Jen M.

Jen M. November 5th, 2008 03:45:00 PM

"In general, frankly, I think the groups that promote vegetarianism and veganism often miss a huge opportunity to improve the lives of animals raised for food. By taking a totally abolitionist stance rather than addressing the alternative of humanely raised and humanely slaughtered animals, they miss out on creating more market demand for the latter. If more people become vegan or veggie great, but many people will not, and by taking an "all or nothing" approach to the issue, I think a chance is missed to make a real impact. "

Stefani, as an animal activist and ethical vegetarian, I SO agree with this statement. While I abstain from eating animals and try not to use animal products in other aspects of my life, I do try to do my part to educate people and to try and change people's attitude toward "food animals."

Jen M.

Jen M. November 5th, 2008 04:43:00 PM

Dogs seem to do pretty well on vegetarian diets. In fact, veterinarians have been recommending vegetarian diets for some Dalmatians, for years now.

As a (mostly) vegan person, I do still feed meat products to the animals in my home (that currently consists of one cat, one dog, and one husband). Would I love to not give my money to businesses that brutalize animals for profit? Sure. But I'm just SOL, it seems. I suppose it's not such a big issue for me because my choices are my own. I have never, ever counselled anyone to become vegetarian/vegan. In fact, I usually recommend people not label themselves, but rather opt for non-animal-derived products whenever they choose. (Once you label yourself, society WILL treat you like an alcoholic. So any animal product you might use in the future will be akin to 'falling off the wagon'.)

What I find funny is my cat. This obligate carnivore would eat anything I'm eating. Soy ice cream. Edamame. Tofu. Veggie deli slices. Honey substitue. Soy milk. Every vegan dessert under the sun. The list goes on. I often think to myself, 'Uh...dude...you're an obligate carnivore. Don't you know there isn't anything close to an animal by-product in that?' He doesn't care. If I'm eating it, it must be good.

Marjorie November 6th, 2008 09:52:00 AM

I feed my cat a commerically available raw diet called Stella and Chewy's. They use only organic, free range, human grade meats. Cats are carnivors and need to fed as such. I would never even think of feeding her a diet that did not contain meat. As others have said, to force our moral beliefs on an animal is cruelty.

Nicole November 6th, 2008 10:55:00 AM

Dr. Patty, thanks for bringing up the local/humanely raised meat. I feed raw and I'm a member of a raw co-op, and I buy items in bulk for both the dogs and my husband and I. I like knowing the exact locations that the meat is coming from (a farm about 1.5 hours east) and their practices. Fortunately since I buy in bulk I also am not going broke to do so. I understand not everyone has this option, but I urge people that if the option is there to take it. There's very little meat I buy at the grocery store anymore.

aboyazan November 6th, 2008 09:42:00 PM

In response to Marjorie...while both of my cats beg like crazy when say, I'm cooking chicken/ribs/sausage/etc. for my bf (and of course when I bring them sashimi home as a treat), they both go CRAZY for cantaloupe. I'll give them each a small slice, and they'll happily munch on cantaloupe for an hour, eventually sitting and licking/chewing the rind to shreds. Other weird "non-cat" foods they love? Tomato soup, Smartfood popcorn, doritos (nacho cheese only), tostistos, LETTUCE (this one blows my mind, I don't even like iceberg lettuce), eggs, rice, and once even channa masala. I wonder why they like this stuff??

Back on the main topic, and in response to folks who are suggesting humanely raised meat-based foods...I would love to make my own cat food for my cats, but I have no idea where to start. Is there a good website with information on cat nutritional requirements where I could find different ways of feeding them? Even buying free range / organic chicken I think I would have trouble feeding them "raw" food just because it grosses ME out so much.

One thing I can, and have done, is buy a share in my local organic farm - I saved over $300 on vegetables this past summer by getting locally-grown organic vegetables from a farm share. Considering how the cost of shipping foods has gone up in recent years, and the massive environmental impact that it causes, I tend to preach eating locally to anyone before I would even mention cutting meat out of their diet (though cattle farming is very, very bad for our environment in the way it is done in most places) and small changes like where your food comes from can make a huge impact.

Sidney November 7th, 2008 11:12:00 AM

Ok, first let me say that I'm not dismissing the feeding of anything that doesn't fall under the "meat" heading to cats. In fact, my cats enjoy cantaloupe and lettuce as well. However, these same cats enjoy all kinds of things that are horribly bad for them, including milk, ice cream and chocolate.

Simply because they will eat it (tofu, bean curd, soy, etc) does not mean a) that they should or b) that it should comprise the mainstay of their diet.

We had a dog who used to beg for sugary mints. Good idea? No. Make a kibble out of it? Heck, no.

I realize this is a stretch from what you're saying, but the fact is that the palate doesn't always agree with nature. Kibble fed cats often have difficulty transitioning to raw food, for example, or even eating a piece of real cooked chicken, simply because it doesn't have the added salt and sucrose that makes their little tongues tingle like the grocery crap does.

Would you feed your kid a diet consisting only of Kraft Dinner and hot dogs "because he likes it?" Me thinks not.

The same love that causes mothers everywhere to repeat the mantra "eat your vegetables" is what propels me daily to repeat (over and over and over) to cat and dog owners "feed them their meat!"

Your mom didn't care if you didn't like it at the time... she knew you probably would eventually. And I come to you as a convert. Corn and potatoes were pretty much the only veggies I would eat as a child, until high school. Now I'm a veggie fanatic... we eat grilled veggies four times a week, and these days we only eat small amounts of meat a few times a week. The odd time we'll get in the mood for fancy restaurant steaks, but for the most part, our freezers are bare (except for the dog food) and our fridge is full of roughage for us two legged family members.

All I'm trying to say is that I can't take the soft arguments any longer. The "but he likes it" or the "but *I* don't eat meat, why should he" or even worse "it's better for him" (with a TON of research to the contrary).

There's nothing wrong with feeding your meat eating carnivore the odd bit of odd food. Mine even do get a lick of all natural, sugar free, vanilla goat's milk ice cream now and then. Cantaloupe occasionally, lettuce when they want it, celery when the mood strikes them, and even the odd piece of pasta, as long as there's no sauce on it. Everyone is entitled to their junk food treats every once in a WHILE, provided their main diet is a healthy, species appropriate, meat based, human grade one, preferably at the very least containing free run, grass fed meat, and hopefully containing North American ingredients.

Or at least that's just my 2 cents (although admittedly I've got to be up to a buck seventy five by now.)

Kim November 7th, 2008 11:59:00 AM

Great article.  I have 5 cats.  In my opinion, to force your cat, to eat a vegan diet is a form of cruelty.  Cats need meat to thrive.  I wish I could feed mine raw, but even doing that I'd have to find the proper nutrients that are still missing in some raw meat. 

I'm a vegetarian, it's my choice, not my cats.

Nuria November 27th, 2008 10:38:48 AM

I'm a vegan who is taking in a stray kitten that would have otherwise been given to the pound.  And, yes, cruel and heartless me, I plan to feed the cat a vegan diet (go ahead and report the animal abuse).  Even though I am clearly going to jail/hell/New Jersey for an eternity for this soulless and abusive action, I plan to do the best I can to ensure the cat's health and safety.  Even my soul has already been corrupted by the mere thought, Ii it doesn't work out, I will find the cat another home.

Based on my research, it seems that the following site has put a lot of thought into the issue:

http://www.vegepet.com/forcats.html

Kittens (up to about 12 months old), queens, and lactating cats need Vegekit™. Its use is very similar to Vegecat™, but contains higher amounts of certain vitamins and minerals for growth.

Recipes meet nutritional levels established by the Association of American Feed Control OfficialÕs (AAFCO) Cat Food Nutrient Profile for feline growth, gestation, and lactation as well as adult maintenance. For detailed feeding information, download the Vegekit™ instructions on the LITERATURE page.

Does anyone have anything non-polemic to say about this?

lgstarn January 27th, 2009 09:11:33 PM

Okay, seriously... Dogs are NOT carnivores.  They are omnivores.  They live perfectly healthy and happy on a veg diet- even a vegan diet.  There are many cases of dogs who are allergic to meat.  so does that mean they are destined to die? or live unhealthy?  If they were"carnivores," they would probably be.  Now, cats ARE obligate carnivores, but I don't think it's abusive to try to make the veg.  I've met vegan cats who are perfectly healthy and happy.  I do understand that it is a huge risk- and I don't have a cat so I haven't tried.   I have a vegan dog and he's happy, healthy and thriving.  If I don't have to kill other animals for my dog, I absolutely won't. 

lady February 17th, 2009 02:14:47 PM

This conversation is hilarious. Vegan cats are animal abuse, according a HUMAN meat-eater? The hypocrisy. Why is it that almost everyone immediately dismisses the idea of vegan cats, hollering "animal abuse," yet almost NO ONE dismisses the idea of humans devouring and exploiting animals utterly beyond the limits of sanity? That's just humans ONCE AGAIN discriminating against traditionally farmed animals in favor of traditional pets.

As for whether or not it works and whether or not it's ethical, I won't comment. But it strikes me as pathetic that the whole world can be outraged about one marginal case of "animal abuse" and not give a damn about the apocalyptic treatment and rights violations of 50 billion or so animals worldwide.

Louche April 15th, 2009 04:33:55 PM

and argument for why its ok to make your cat vegan... might not be as wacko as you think...

http://esgonevegan.blogspot.com/2009/04/yes-its-true.html

Eric Milano April 21st, 2009 11:33:00 AM

If you are like many new mothers, you want to lose weight as soon as possible. However, there are some fat here and there, so you actually have to learn how to lose weight after a baby.

qixinyan May 23rd, 2009 01:30:16 AM