Lots of breeders and regular pet owners give their own vaccines as a way to save on multi-pet care. Many of them do research on the vaccines, ask their vets for advice, buy the vaccines online, store them properly, administer them carefully and keep excellent records.
I have no problem with this approach as long as self-vaccinators don’t skip steps and get all sloppy about it. After all, vaccination detail is not something to be undertaken lightly. That’s why so many pet owners ask their vets to manage this for them carefully.
But when it comes to vaccines that require regulatory oversight, vets are required to administer them or provide “direct supervision” whenever they are. (“Direct supervision” in this case means that vets must be in the facility at the time vaccines are administered but a technician is allowed to give the shots out of the doctor’s sight).
Vaccines that require this kind of oversight include those for zoonotic diseases (diseases transmissible to humans) such as rabies and brucellosis as well as for those required for regulatory health certificates.
But not all vets seem to understand this. Case in point:
I’m in this email group run by the FVMA where vets discuss the pros and cons of various issues affecting the profession and how regulatory concerns affect our patients’ care. This week’s big brouhaha concerned the issue of who is legally allowed to administer a rabies vaccine.
It seems some breeders in Florida are trying to administer their own rabies vaccines then get the vets to issue licenses and/or certificates of administration. Some vets think this is OK. They say the vaccine is no more likely to cause a problem (nor is the disease’s risk higher) if the shot’s administered by a non-veterinarian.
Others, however, are raising a red flag to such shenanigans. Guess which group I’m in? Here’s my reasoning:
- If I’m required by law to administer a vaccine then I’m going to follow the law.
- If I’m going to sign my name to paperwork attesting to the vaccine’s administration then I’m going to give the vaccine.
- If my child is bitten by a dog, guess whose rabies vaccine records I’m going to have to trust?
It seems that some vets don’t get the problem of rabies. “Rabies hasn’t been seen in dogs and cats in this county for over 25 years,” they say. “Why can’t I offer my multi-pet clients a break on this one? I didn’t go to vet school to push vaccines, anyway.”
Here’s my rejoinder:
When I was a kid I was bitten by a neighbor’s white shepherd while riding my bicycle on the street near her house. Rabies? “Oh, I gave it myself. I grew up on a farm where we gave all our own shots. Here’s my receipt for the vaccine.”
Needless to say, this creepy woman’s records were not going to convince my mother. The dog was quarantined and I was very nearly subjected to a series of painful intraperitoneal injections (those “belly shots” required for rabies post-exposure back in the day). I know I didn’t sleep for many nights out of fear for my abdomen. The bite? Incidental. It healed fine.
So when it comes to you, your pets or your human children being bitten, whose records would YOU trust? Do you blame me for protecting my profession’s right to be the sole provider of vaccines in this case?
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Not in the least. Frankly, I *commend* you for it.
Even if the vaccine were legitimately given, it's anybody's guess as to whether or not it was done properly. (Was the animal sick or taking a medication that may have diminished his ability to mount an effective immune response when he received the vaccine? Did an appropriate amount of the stuff actually make it into the animal? Was the product used, stored, and handled as directed?)
Most people probably could administer a rabies vaccine sans incident.. but that doesn't mean they should.
Ramen Connoisseur November 14th, 2008 10:22:36 AM
I agree - for something as important as Rabies I believe the vaccination should remain in the hands of professionals. However, reading Ramen's comment reminded me that sometimes even vets take vaccination way too casually. How often do you hear of vets administering vaccinations to animals who AREN'T truly healthy, or who get a shot of steroids at the same visit?
Barb November 14th, 2008 10:39:55 AM
I live in a rural area and see cases of parvovirus on a regular basis (anywhere from 0 to 10 a month. I would estimate that at least %25 of these poor pups were vacinated by the owner and/or breeder. So if we have a %25 failure rate for parvo in owner vaccinated dogs, we could have the same rate of failure with owner given rabies vaccines. Fortunately rabies is not as common as parvovirus and most improperly vaccinated dogs are never exposed to rabies. This is just one more corner some vets will cut in order to appease a demanding client. Too many do what is popular to curry a client's favor as opposed to those of us who try to follow the law. I have found that the vets that do things like this (falsify vax certificates) are usually the dirt cheap, high volume guys. These vets are ususally the ones cutting corners in quality as well. I cringe and bite my lip every time I hear how "much more reasonable" they are regarding fees.
Hobson November 14th, 2008 10:54:54 AM
Hobson: And then there's the owner who gave two doses of a rabies vaccine and produced the disease in her dog (this is a well-documented case from 20-plus years ago).
"I have found that the vets that do things like this (falsify vax certificates) are usually the dirt cheap, high volume guys. These vets are ususally the ones cutting corners in quality as well."
...and the ones serving the puppy shops and puppy mills, in my experience.
Dr. Patty Khuly November 14th, 2008 11:12:18 AM
Barb: That issue drives me crazy. Steroids or sick pets and vaccines do not mix. Shocking that I still see new clients come in with records that reflect this practice. Here's an old post on this (though, beware, all my links have been working erratically lately due to the new platform--try it later if you don't get to it right away).
Dr. Patty Khuly November 14th, 2008 11:15:34 AM
Actually, there have been a couple of cases of rabid cats being found in Maryland. One was a kitten adopted out by a rescue: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198564,00.html The other was found in College Park. http://www.dhmh.state.md.us/publ-rel/html/rabprpg.htm So really, vets need to be the ones giving the vaccines. I'm also against rescues and breeders vaccinating their own animals. I've worked with numerous rescues and they all self vaccinate but I worry about things like the conditions in which the vaccines are kept, etc.
Kristie November 14th, 2008 11:22:37 AM
I agree that rabies, even though it's almost unheard of these days, is too great a risk to allow laypeople to vaccinate for it. In fact, I'd argue that the reason it's almost unheard of is because the government and veterinary profession have done such a good job of requiring vaccination. Even clients who decline all preventive care still come in for a rabies shot, and even though a rabies vaccine and physical exam shouldn't set anyone back a ton of cash, there are plent of low-cost options that are still legally valid. I have zero sympathy for multi-pet clients who need to save a few bucks - do your penny-pinching elsewhere.
anna November 14th, 2008 11:42:04 AM
Hobson, A 25% failure rate for the parvo vax may have nothing to do with who it was given by. The parvo vax in general is tricky as to when it will become effective due to maternal antibodies. There are many pups that get parvo and have been vaccinated appropriately by a veterinarian.
Heather November 14th, 2008 11:43:36 AM
In my experience the number of parvo pups that have been properly vaccinated by a vet are 1% or less vs owner vaccinated pups
Hobson November 14th, 2008 11:48:31 AM
Isn't the reason the low-incidence rate of Rabies due to the fact that the vax is required? Kind of like Polio or TB in humans? I agree - this is too litigious an issue to put it in the hands of amateurs. When someone or their child is bitten, you want to depend on the accuracy of professional records.
Creature of Habit November 14th, 2008 01:41:13 PM
To add to Hobson's comment (and Dr. K's follow-up) - my family lost a special Wolfhound pup from distemper, after he was vaccinated by the manager at a Petland. (Yes, we shouldn't have gotten him there - my mom saw him stuck in a cage far too small for him and brought him home.) We later found out that manager actually put multiple doses in a big syringe and just 'shot' all the puppies at once (to save needles!). No one could tell if he'd put a complete dose into each puppy or that they'd gotten too much. I concur with Dr. K. that vacs (especially rabies) should be given by a vet. Maybe, under incredibly good conditions, a rescue that has a vet tech on board could have some vaccs come straight from the vet's fridge and given at their base of operations, but again, it would have to be under optimal conditions.
Kate November 14th, 2008 01:52:23 PM
I prefer to see rabies administered by veterinary clinics and would like to see other shots supervised by one but that isn't going to happen in my area.
Too many people here would NOT get vaccinations if the feed stores did not sell them or if the clinics did not offer 1/2 price shot clinics.
The problem is that shot protocol isn't always understood. Even the vet techs can get it wrong--like one who told the client the liquid on the dog's fur wasn't anything to be concerned about (she missed). I also shudder over the liablity issues of well meaning employees wanting to give shots at, say, one of the feed stores.
In this area we have wildlife and a variety of disease transported by roaming animals and visiting animals (from tourists).
The solution? Beats me. Not everything is going to get regulated but I'd prefer to see rabies vaccines stay in the hands of the veterinarians like they have been around here.
Ark Lady November 14th, 2008 02:27:23 PM
Another topic I'm glad you brought up, although my comments are going to be tangential. The definition of "Direct Supervision" varies from State to State. So, what the definition is in Florida, as you've described, doesn't match the definition in Maryland. (I believe in Maryland, Direct Supervision means that the vet can visually see the action, and is within earshot. A little redundant if I remember right because if you are close enough to see, aren't you close enough to hear? Maybe not, if you have cameras in your hospital . . . ) In other states, Direct Supervision means just on the premises. In Ohio, they are making the supervision requirements more lenient, and no longer requre DIRECT supervision for many activities, I believe including vaccination. (The exceptions are schedule II drug administration and blood draws among others). They have redefined "supervision" (general supervision, not direct) to mean that EITHER a LVT OR Vet is available by phone. So you could have an unlicensed person administering vaccines, and a vet tech on the beach in the Virgin Islands with a daquiri and a cell phone. That's some "supervision." If our parents had applied those rules to supervising us when we were growing up, how many of us would even be here?
Stefani November 14th, 2008 02:57:32 PM
"Lots of breeders and regular pet owners give their own vaccines as a way to save on multi-pet care." Yes to help save on costs and as a breeder I am not keen on taking a litter of young, not yet vaccinated puppies to a clinic where most of the dogs in the parking lot, in the waiting room are there because they are sick. Many clinic visitors do not understand that you should not bring the vomiting parvo sick dog straight into the clinic ;( I do of course order my vaccines direct, use my preferred brand, check lot # and expire dates, etc...Having said that I am against owners doing their own rabies, I would never ask my vet to do such a thing and I am sure he never would.
Vaccines are a very serious issue and are taken too lightly, with both over-vaccination and under vaccination, reaction lack of reporting, etc... Most of the responsible breeders I know communicate with their vet's and do alot of their own research. The key is having a Veterinarian who is willing to establish a long term relationship with a breeder and work with them to keep their dogs healthy. As a breeder, I see my relationship with my vet as a team. I would never ask a team member to falsify or lie!!!
Great topic.
Lisa November 14th, 2008 03:23:49 PM
I wouldn't trust the vaccines given outside the vet offices.. I deal with human vaccines... The care of human vaccines is very strict.. even down to the way it's shipped, the thermomter, the need for temperature logs, lot numbers, etc.. I know if I need a vaccine, or any of my family, I can trust my vaccines are taken care of properly.. I have people trained to do it..
barri November 14th, 2008 04:38:42 PM
barri, I agreed to a tentanus shot 4 days ago, and my arm is still killing me, hard raised lump and all. One benefit (possibly) of the clinics, preferrably vets administering the vaccines, is if there is an adverse reaction, it may be more likely to be reported. I recall the protocol and brand changed at the clinic I went to between '96 & '97, because of a few of the more "serious" reactions. And I am really grateful that my state has advocated for the CANINE best interest in finally making it law to waive rabies for pets with chronic illness. Kind of amazing??!!
Barbara "Pocket's Story from NH" November 14th, 2008 09:58:23 PM
Honestly I wouldn't trust a rabies vaccine adminstered by an owner. Follow any of the anti-vax forums and you will eventually see comments on how easy it is to create a bogus vaccination certificate, or "prove" vaccination by showing a receipt of purchase etc.
laura November 15th, 2008 09:48:13 AM
Complete agreement with the above post. One of my cats has a compromised immune system (among other issues), and every time I'm stuck leaving him someplace, I worry about the possibility that he might bring something home. I am very careful about choosing facilities where they require (and actually check for) proof of vaccinations, but that does me a fat lot of good if somebody else decides to appease them with a fake or doctored history. I know I'm neurotic, and he'd probably be fine even if there were exposure, (he's vaccinated, and both our kennel of choice and local clinics keep him in a quarantine area) but, still. I used to work in a boarding facility, and I saw what people tried to pull in order to circumvent the vaccine requirements. (I also know of a veterinary technician who lost her job for providing her friends with a falsified proof of rabies vaccination. The dog later bit somebody, and fortunately, it was apparent to both the vet and ACO that the documents were bogus.) I have no doubt that there were probably countless others doing a smarter job of it and flying under the radar.
Ramen Connoisseur November 15th, 2008 03:57:40 PM
Stefani: Thanks for making the point about direct supervision--I should have been more careful to explain that this is Florida's current definition.
If anyone's interested in requesting the article transcript from JAVMA on the rabies positive after double-rabies vaccine administration, I'm told it's in the issue published on May 5, 1996.
Dr. Patty Khuly November 16th, 2008 07:46:07 AM
I absolutely agree that Rabies especially needs to be given by a trained veterinary professional-a DVM or C/R/LVT. When I worked in general practice, the policy was that vaccines are given by the DVM in front of the owner (unless they didn't want to watch) with the technician restraining, so the vaccine is given in the correct spot.
I've also worked for a breeder who followed protocols established by a vet, purchased her vaccines at a discount (she took very good care of her dogs,referred her clients and friends, and spent a lot of money at the clinic, and was thus entitled to a generous discount), and I transported and gave the vaccines (I'm a tech). I have no problem with these types of practices, as long as there is a clear protocol and it is followed.
A better way to reward your loyal multi-pet clients who need vaccines is to offer them vaccination discounts-10 bucks a piece or something similar, and schedule it as a house call, or a day that they will bring their pets in for their boosters. This optimizes the client and vet's time, and everyone benefits. Don't cut corners and let a potentially inexperienced, untrained layperson give their own pets vaccinations.
Something I always like to remind clients of is that if their pet has a vaccination reaction from a dose given by a vet, the manufacturer has to stand behind their product. Not so for vaccines sold through feed stores, etc. Some vets will even go so far as to do the exam on a pet suffering from a vax rxn for free (my previous one did).
Morgan November 23rd, 2008 08:21:12 PM
I have to agree with this last comment, as a multi dog owner. Make vaccines more readily available and inexpensive to receive from the vet, and most people would get them there. I recently moved to California, and during the year, I needed to bring my dogs in for their annual vaccines (no rabies-not due). 3 dogs, mandatory "wellness check", mandatory fecals (this is my vets practice) at a cost of almost $900 (total for the 3 dogs). I can afford it, but there are people who, for one reason or another, cannot. They love their pets, and want to do right by them. I'd rather see people vaccinate on their own if they don't have the financial resources to shell out $300 a year. (actually, if an owner can't afford that, I'd rather they not have a pet, but that's beside the point). I'm sure I'll catch flak for saying it, but if I were in a severe money crunch, and I could go to a feed store and pay $5 for my vaccine or order it online...I'd do it, rather than let my pet go unvaccinated because I couldn't pay $200-$300 for a vet to do it.
chris November 29th, 2008 01:35:03 PM
I disagree. It's really all about the money in the end.
Giving a shot isn't rocket science. Storing a vaccine isn't rocket science, and being able to calculate the next due date (1 year or 3) for the next shot isn't either.
The problem is that, thanks to the veterinarian lobby, state law says a vet has to do this. If it did not, there would be no vet in the loop and the owner would be liable for the failure of any shots they gave their animals. So the owner would get to decide if they feel comfortable with that liabiliy or not.
Or, if the average vet was willing to allow me to bring my dog in, give him the shot, and bill me a reasonable amount for that, fine. But as stated here earlier, each trip to the vet is a multi-hundred dollar event.
It costs more for my dog to make a trip to the vet then it does me a trip to the doctor with no insurance. Insane.
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Honestly I wouldn't trust a rabies vaccine adminstered by an owner. Follow any of the anti-vax forums and you will eventually see comments on how easy it is to create a bogus vaccination certificate, or "prove" vaccination by showing a receipt of purchase etc. online games
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