If you'd like to read more about how/why veterinarians work with pet shops, here's a post on this (one I wrote after communicating for the first time with Ms. LaHart a couple of years ago).

If you'd like to read my opinions on pet-shop vets in an article in Veterinary Practice News (a national publication geared to the veterinary profession), have a go at it here.

Dr. Patty Khuly December 30th, 2008 08:47:58 AM

A heartbreaking example of where compassions for animal rights and animal welfare went awry over the last several years. With one side wanting to eliminate all purebred breeding and 'responsible' breeders finding themselves aligned with preserving rights that allow puppy mills to continue.

The animal victims are Beanie and the abhorrent conditions of the many sire/dams raised as "livestock", impervious to USDA, AWA, and often the AKC, too.

The distributor pet store and Dr. Incahoots need to be held accountable for the heartbreak inflicted upon unsuspecting consumers and on behalf of the companion pets, themselves.

While purchasing from an individual breed club member-breeder is not 100% guarantee of "everything", at the very least a prospective purchaser can view whether conditions are sanitary, dam is well taken care of & of sound temperment and health, and the Breeder is genuinely interested in everyone's best interest.

Though my breeding experience over 20 years is extremely limited, without a doubt, I can be proud of the ethics and standards I held myself accountable for.

Barbara A. Albright , in memory of Pocket

Pocket's Story from NH December 30th, 2008 08:48:09 AM

This is awful. What a beautiful baby he was. Heartbreaking. Thank you both for raising awareness on this issue.

Stefani December 30th, 2008 09:32:38 AM

Thank you for this.

Thank you for "naming names" of the pet store and breeder.

But why not name Doctor Incahoots?

I tell my clients not to even walk into a pet store that retails puppies, much less buy anything there -- and it's not all about being morally pure, it's about disease transmission, especially parvo.

I also do not recommend our local Doctors Incahoots, for all the same reasons.

H. Houlahan December 30th, 2008 10:07:29 AM

I too bought a boston terrier from a pet shop in Bal Harbor, Florida. Teacup Couture. The puppy (Boni) was supposed to go to their vet, who supposedly had already checked her out. Thank goodness, we took her to real vets. First off, Boni was much younger than specified. Second she did have giarda and was bleeding internally. We have three other Bostons at home and I was terrified that all would be infected. The breeder was Myra Burrow of Osceloa, MO. Lucky for us, Boni is now fine as well as the rest of the "B"s, Beanie, Bubbles, and BeBe. I hope that some one can put a stop to these terrible people and their industry.

Patricia Roldan December 30th, 2008 10:41:53 AM

I feel VERY sorry for the dog, but I do not feel sorry for the owner. Sorry, but if you "buy drunk" really bad things will happen to you. The world has NOT been shy or quite about offering a simple piece of advice to all prospective dog owners: NEVER BUY A DOG FROM A PET STORE AS THEY ALL COME FROM PUPPY MILLS. Patrick

PBurns December 30th, 2008 11:12:31 AM

Patricia - If the puppy lemon law were actually enforced, if the Animal Welfare Act was enforced, if veternarians stopped giving their services to pet stores in exchange for new clients so it was less lucrative to be in the puppy mill business, it would help, but these pet stores and the horrible puppy mills that supply them will not go out of business until people stop buying puppies from them, it is that simple.

Marcy December 30th, 2008 12:33:05 PM

Marcy is right on target. Follow the money. If it weren't for huge profits in the mill industry, we wouldn't have to hear these stories over and over. More of this needs to be brought to light. You can be sure that our new pres. and VP won't be buying puppies from a "pets 'r' us" operation. The honest and diligent breeders should be commended at the same time the mill-runners are exposed.

Dean December 30th, 2008 01:19:10 PM

I wish the article had included information about whether the owners are likely to win a lawsuit against the pet store, breeder and/or veterinarian responsible for this situation (presumably the reason why they contacted a lawyer).

I realize that damages are often limited to property value when it comes to animals, but could that at least include the vet bills for trying to save the pups? Can it also include the legal costs for filing the suit?

Since the proper authorities aren't doing their jobs, maybe legal action could put a stop to this behavior by making it unprofitable. Would a class action suit be possible?

Mary Straus December 30th, 2008 01:21:58 PM

Yes, I do also believe that Dr. Incahoots should be outed.

The vets who work with these people and know what's going on shouldn't be protected. By not naming them, we protect them.

Stefani December 30th, 2008 01:37:35 PM

Mary: This is a much better question for Marcy to address (and I'm sure she will) but I do know of at least one class-action law suit against a pet shop operation in the state of Florida. I'm not sure of the outcome of this legal battle (or, indeed, if it's still in the court system) but I do know that it deals with these same issues: lots of sick pups. While it does not address the puppy mills themselves, it does affect a retail outlet, one 'Wizard of Claws' out of Fort Lauderdale.

Dr. Patty Khuly December 30th, 2008 01:38:53 PM

At this point it would not be appropriate for me to discuss  in a public forum any legal actions that may be taken regarding Beanie.

In regards to Wizard of Claws- there is a class action lawsuit against them on behalf of consumers-LePage et al v. Wizard of Claws, currently pending in Broward County.

The Florida Attorney General's office has initiated an independent action against Wizard of Claws as well. However,  as far as I know the store is still in business, although I think the owners now do business under the name Celebrity Kennels.

Marcy December 30th, 2008 02:33:40 PM

There's a guy in my town who runs a "mill" for pocket pets and birds; I've heard him talking about it several times and it's clear that he's utterly indifferent to the welfare of these animals. He has also said that when his dog misbehaved he "beat the s*** out of her" (his words) and proudly stated that this is the only way to get a dog to pay attention. I'd like to report this guy to someone-or-other, but the problem is that I don't know his name or other identifying information. I expect the police wouldn't be interested in trying to find this sort of criminal on the basis of only a description and overheard conversations. So I'm at the stage of trying to find more solid information myself. Frustrating...

T.T. December 30th, 2008 05:57:57 PM

I did some undercover work a while back as part of an investigative piece on new puppy mill strategies. The national dog magazine that originally contracted for me to write the piece decided not to use some of the really interesting stuff. It's a shame. Maybe I'll just rewrite that part and post it on my blog.

These stories are all to common. It's so sad!

Roxanne @ Champion of My Heart December 30th, 2008 06:27:25 PM

good thats a few more people who got educated the hard way put em to sleep ome more puppy mill sick infected probaly in breed to the point of living for 7 yrs anyway sorry no sympsthy for the buyer i almost am ready to take PETA's stance no breeding period

jiM December 30th, 2008 06:34:50 PM

I realize some sellers may not follow it if there is one, but Dr. Khuly, are there laws in Florida regarding a quarantine period before pet stores can put an animal up for sale?

cheshire December 30th, 2008 07:50:02 PM

cheshire: Not that I know of. Quarantines are only implemented fin Florida for animals with reportable diseases (of major agricultural or zoonotic concern). I believe that's true nationwide.

Dr. Patty Khuly December 30th, 2008 09:41:14 PM

That poor puppy! He just never had a chance.

But I am still amazed at how many people just don't know any better than to get a puppy from a pet store.  Apart from the ones who claim to be "rescuing" the pups (and we don't know if the women in this story fell into that category) it's flat out amazing how many people don't seem to have heard the message.

What are we missing?  When Oprah, 20/20, lots of magazines, etc. etc.  all talk about the problems with commercially bred dogs how are there still people who don't know any better??  What more can we do?

Barb December 30th, 2008 11:07:59 PM

Pet stores in Alabama are NOT ALLOWED to sell any companion animals--they only sell reptiles and tropical fish. In addition, every weekend local shelters bring their companion animals to the pet stores for public view and adoption (for a fee). I believe ALL states must enforce a no pet store companion animals sale!

Fotini December 30th, 2008 11:14:17 PM

First, poor Beanie! Second, poor Beanie’s owner who probably hadn’t a clue about BYBs or Mills until this week. That’s a hard lesson to learn and this is often how it is learned. The AWA is virtually useless but there are other options. What I don’t understand is why there isn’t a battery of lawyers out there filing deceptive trade practice suits against these pet stores and breeders. Yeah, lawyers are motivated by profit but most DTPAs provide for hefty damages, legal fees, and costs (often include a provision for emotional damages if there are actual damages, like Vet bills) AND there are a LOT of dog and cat loving attorneys out there… Name everyone from the breeder to the store to the vets in the suits. Get all their files in discovery. Take the profit out and I’ll bet the Vets bale pretty quickly; slap some liens on the properties where the breeders operate; put some pet store chains out or business or at least in bankruptcy… And then there’s always the possibility of RICO which has a lovely treble damages provision. You only have to make a plausible argument for 2 of over 35 offenses and I see several easy ones (theft, fraud, obstruction of justice [AWA], racketeering, and maybe even gambling (pets sold to/for fighting rings).

PJBoosinger December 31st, 2008 03:23:00 AM

"First, poor Beanie! Second, poor Beanie’s owner who probably hadn’t a clue about BYBs or Mills until this week."

Yes, to the first part. Bull, to the second part. I work in a vet's office and continually hear from people who're bringing in sickly, tiny, often 'designer' mutts, that "Well, we heard that they might be from a puppy mill, but the man in the store said all the puppies come from local home breeders." And this is from a store front that is only open on the weekends, which really should be a huge tip-off to people, but they're told, "Oh, the breeders have jobs during the week, so that's why we do it this way." Okay, so why are there usually more than 100 puppies there, and only 3 or 4 people? Are these people the breeders of all these puppies - the 4 Cavi-Poos, the 3 Chi-Poms, the 4 teacup Bostons, the 5 Puggles in this cage, and the 4 Puggles in this other cage, the 4 teacup Yorkies in this cage (and the 4 other cages that have 3 or 4 more each, as these are really popular), the 5 Cavachons over there, the 3 Yorki-Poos and the 5 Hava-Poos over here, ad nauseum - and how do they manage to have all these different dogs and have them producing puppies all at the same time?!?!. Isn't it amazing that these 4 people can do all that and work at 'real jobs' during the week? And that next weekend they'll be back with other puppies, all from their homes?

I know that stupidity runs rampant, but come on! And these are often clients who have heard us saying things about puppy mills and backyard breeders - and have joined in the conversations, agreeing with us that 'that should be illegal.' Yes, it most definitely is the "I want it now" thing, but geez, we could help you with a rescue that sometimes has puppies or tell you of a shelter that most likely has puppies of some mixture that would be 'different' and would cost a heck of a lot less than the $400 and up you got ripped off for, and it might only take you a week or so longer - like that could possibly matter over the years you'll get to share with a new best friend!

KateH December 31st, 2008 10:22:24 AM

Have to disagree with you KateH. For many people a puppy/dog is a not an everyday purchase. They do a little research (maybe) on what size/type dog they want and off they go. That doesn't make them bad people. It means they are uninformed. For those of us who spend time researching animal issues, its hard to realize that many people just don't know how. They aren't going to focus on animal articles if they don't own animals. They don't read animal blogs. They don't know that dogs in pet stores invariably ask come from puppy mills. They don't know that if the pet store owner tells them that they come from a USDA approved kennel that that means virtually nothing. And even those who do - often filter out what they don't want to hear. I originally fed my cats a dental food that was mostly corn. BECAUSE MY VET RECOMMENDED IT! Over time (and after much puking) we're totally switched over to a much higher quality food. I've written articles on pet food issues for my employers' blogs and sent all the information about recalls, bad food, etc to my friends. Now I find out my best friend (and very knowledgable) cat owner has switched her cat over to the crappy dental food because HER VET RECOMMENDED IT! She loves her cat dearly, but this is a topic we can't discuss because HER VET RECOMMENDED IT! And a well meaning but unknowledgable vet will trump a well informed friend every time.

So let's not blame the pet purchasers - especially if they didn't know any better. Let's keep pushing the word out in syndicated columns, protesting in front of pet stores, and doing what ever we can to inform the public about bad vets, bad stores, bad food.

BTW - My brother and his wife just got a dog. They researched and read and decided that they wanted a poodle (little shedding, small dog, etc). They went to a local shelter (on my advice) and adopted a poodle mix. The fuggly poodle they adopted from a shelter turned out to be a golden doodle. Now they wouldn't know a goldendoodle is one of the favorite puppy mill breeds. Given the behavioral issues - my bet is that its from a puppy mill. (severe separation anxiety, bathroom accidents from hearing loud noises, etc). But you're right about one thing -he didn't cost them $400 (until after the vet visit).

To Dr. K and to you all have a happy, healthy and safe New years!

2CatMom December 31st, 2008 02:04:34 PM

KatieH, I prefer to think and even feel from a place that starts with facts, logic and reasoning so, if the buyer were me, I'd agree with you totally. Even so, it would not change the pain I would feel in the loss of a pet; those we fall in love with within the first hours or even minutes. One of the facts in this case might well be that the buyer didn't have all the facts and learning them may well only increase the buyers' pain and sense of loss. There has been a great deal of media attention on BYBs and Mills and everyone says "buy from a reputable breeder" but I have yet to see a site where "reputable breeder" is well defined. No one seems to want to take a stand because it will most certainly offend many on all sides of the argument. Seems to me we need a better definition and some kind of nationwide BBB for breeders.

PJBoosinger December 31st, 2008 04:13:15 PM

I think that most people in our area have gotten the message about not buying puppies from pet stores.  But we are still seeing puppy mill pups because of internet sales.  I had a client walk in today with a bulldog puppy with severe skin issues at 6 months of age, as well as a gait that would indicate hip problems.  She got it from 'a great kennel in Kansas'.   She found the dog on the internet, and  believed everything the breeder told her, never visited the kennel, had the dog shipped to her, paid thousands of dollars for the dog, it was a USDA approved kennel (!), etc, etc, etc.  And this story is repeated over and over again!  I wish we could get the word out to the public BEFORE they buy these pups!

2catmom, you said, "And a well meaning but unknowledgable vet will trump a well informed friend every time."  Uh, sorry, but, give me conflicting advice from a friend and a vet about my cat or dog, and I'm going with the vet every time.  How do I know that the friend knows what they are talking about?  I've had clients pull their pets off of meds that are keeping them alive because 'well, my friend told me......'.   Yes, there are vets out there who shouldn't be practicing, but don't tar them all with the same feathers!  And when it comes to food, corn is NOT all bad!  I wouldn't use it by preference with cats, but, if you have studied animal nutrition in depth, you will know that corn can be very nutritious, with high levels of linoleic acid, and other nutrients, and highly digestible.  Not all vets and vet techs are clueless about nutrition (many, but not all ;-D ).

Sassy December 31st, 2008 08:39:54 PM

Sassy: I see a major problem with going with a vet when its comes to nutrition. Almost everything a vet is taught about nutrition comes either from 1) pet food sponsored seminars at vet school or vet conferences or 2) reps from the makers of RX food. And I totally disagree that corn is a good food for an obligate carnivore. Once I took my cats off a grain based food and put them on actual chicken and fish (no by-products or meal) based food, the vomiting, dry coats and a myriad of other problems magically disappeared.

I also don't happen to believe that the vet who recommended the original diet is a 'bad' vet. I'm certainly not "tarring anyone with the same feathers". We know for a fact that nutrition get short shrift in vet training and cat nutrition even more so. And yes, I've done extensive research on pet food - my previous profession was as a biochemist. And No, I would never tell anyone to take their animal off of meds - I have no expertise in that area. So you see one side of the problem and I see the other.

The good news - my vet is very open to the information I find on the web - and I'm good with a vet who may not know everything but is willing to work with me and my pets. I'm not so open with a vet that thinks they do know everyting. Particularly when the vet has learned everything he/she knows from those who profit through the use of their product.

2CatMom December 31st, 2008 10:39:46 PM

Corn is a great food for humans, but relatively hard to digest, even for us. For dogs, it needs a lot of defending; for cats, it's indefensible. Obligate carnivore, the phrase does mean something!

Most vets who didn't specialize in veterinary nutrition learned their animal nutrition from representatives of Purina and Hills, who of course will say that corn is a great food for obligate carnivores. It's cheap, easy to work with, and it's possible to make a food that dogs or cats will eat and not starve on. But it's not the healthiest choice; it's not an acceptable choice for cats at all. Any vet who tells me that corn is an acceptable first ingredient in a food for my dog or my cat, is telling me they didn't take any nutrition classes not funded by a major pet food company.

The other major test of a vet's nutritional awareness, is how they react to  requests for information on home cooking for my pets. If they tell me it's way too complex and if I dare try it my pets will suffer all sorts of nutritional deficiencies, I know to discount whatever they tell me about nutrition. (Normally I feed a high-quality kibble, along with some canned for the cats. Home cooking is for special occasions, or when someone is sick, or when, for some crazy reason or other, I'm not sure the commercial foods won't poison my pets.)

It doesn't make me disrespect or distrust them on medical matters for my pets, which I know they actually studied. It just means I don't consult with them about nutrition. But even on medical matters, I expect to be able to ask questions, get answers, consider alternatives, and to be involved in decisions about what's the best course for my pet. And if I bring in information from another source, I expect that information to be treated as seriously as its actual source warrants--not judged on the basis of which technology I used to obtain it--to refer back to another discussion.

Lis January 1st, 2009 09:04:58 AM

2CatMom - it's exactly the reason that a pet isn't (usually, but I've known a couple who've gotten one, gave it away, gotten another, gave it away - one person 6 pets, another 7, in one year) an everyday purchase, that I was trying to point out that more thought should go into that purchase. Instead, it so often comes down to the "I want it now" (along with "I'm rescuing it"), attitude that can so often end with a person feeling bad to awful and a worse off pet. I did not say that they were bad people - I said that stupidity runs rampant in these cases. Perhaps I should have been a bit kinder and said 'gulibility' but whether someone was gulibile or stupid to hand over a credit card in a place that has over 100 dogs and 3-4 people claiming they're the 'local, home breeders' and is only open on weekends, the word doesn't matter to the puppy who is often sick and sometimes dies. And I did say that these people are very often informed - they've told us that they know about puppy mills and the problems with sick dogs, yet it's these same people who turn right around and buy puppy mill puppies. As for those people who do it on a impulse - and they do - and regret it, well, it's harder to sympathise with them. The dog, yes, the people, no.

And your comment about the vet recommending a corn-based diet - yeah, a vet may not have much nutritional knowledge, but we were talking about the health and behavioral problems of puppy mill dogs, and trust me, while there are vets who support puppy mills, at our office we do not shy away from letting people know about health issues (of course because we want them to pay money to get their puppy healthy - not - it's because we would rather work with healthy, happy dogs and happy owners).

PJBoosinger, if you haven't seen a site that defines a reputable breeder, you aren't looking. Asking the potential buyer lots of questions about their lifestyle, family, home, other/previous pets, and intentions for training (and even doing a home visit), letting the potential buyer come to the home to see at least the bitch, if not the sire too, waiting until the puppy is at the very least, eight weeks or better 10-12 weeks before it leaves your care, and making sure to encourage ongoing communication, with the buyer, even to a visit now and then - that's a reputable breeder. Setting up in an empty storefront, or even a full-fledged Petland, and only wanting to know if your credit card clears - uh, no, that's not buying from a reputable breeder. This is almost like a session of Jaywalking, in that you ask 50 people if they can tell you who T.A. Edison was, and if they can identify #23 for the Cleveland Cavaliers. Does that mean that when they let their kids play with a fork near a wall outlet, wearing a LeBron jersey, and the kid gets zapped (and I know someone who did this), I should feel sorry for the parent or just the kid? Yeah, the kid gets my sympathy, the parent, not so much.

KateH January 1st, 2009 02:38:29 PM

First I would like to start off by saying "What was supposed to be one of the happiest experience of our lives turned out to be one of my worst experiences ever" I am not going to lie and tell you I was not aware of puppy mill breeding and pet shop owners who purchase them. However, learning just how many dirty hands are involved in this little puppies fate before he's even born has sickened me to no end. Can I tell you I was 100% certain that Beanie and his sister came from a loving home where his mother and father were safe and kept warm? NO.. I can't! But I will certainly do my best to help make other people aware of such a senseless act. While Beanie was fighting for his life, I focused all my energy on educating myself on every canine illness I could. From animal auctions, to puppy mill operations, it seemed to go on forever. Breeders who have been suspended and are in violation continue to breed. Puppy brokers who make billions of dollars every year selling to stores. It's really unbelievable.If anyone told me I would be reading about Andrew Hunte 2 weeks ago, i would tell them they were crazy. I am in the process of trying to locate the many other owners who purchased sick puppies from the same pet store who are under this vets care. Hopefully they will read this and contact Marcy or myself. I want them to know their not alone in this fight. Many others would have surrendered their sick puppy back to the pet store, not knowing that the puppy would have been euthanized or sent back to the breeder, but too sick to make it there alive. I couldn't do that to Beanie. But look what happened, the only choice I was left with in the end, was leaving him in the hands of a killer. A man without remorse for his actions who is not sorry for my loss at all. A man who calls and leaves a message on voice mail that Beanie passed away, if I needed I could call him back he said, and in doing so only to find, the number he left, had been hooked up to a fax (all night long) he didn't even have the decency to return my page. The following day his only concern was if I were able to make a payment, as he so graciously led me in the back to see Beanies body. The one thing I was fortunate enough to come across was finding Marcy LaHart. I immediately contacted her. I have not told her this, but an angel must have sent her to us. With all the unanswered questions I had, and the frustration I felt, along with such anger and sadness. Marcy opened her heart to me, and gave me the support I needed so I could try to make sense of all this. She gave me the awareness I needed, to see just how much pain and suffering these animals endure. What's funny is I had no intention of buying a puppy that day, let alone a Boston I knew very little about. My best friends Boston named "Stitches" passed away a few years back. She would always say that he was the best dog she ever had. When she arrived at the pet store to meet me, I already had Beanie and Lucy in the room with me. I usually prefer female dogs over males but when I held him my heart just melted. I can't explain it, I could have chose his sister, but he just felt right. My friend could not believe how much he looked like stitches. My friend and I are like sisters, call it silly, but we looked forward to having our little babies together. We knew if only one made it, how horrible we would feel. Luckily Lucy made it. But I will always wonder if my "little man" would still be here if he had better care? I miss him so much! It is my mission to see that breeder Christina Collins of White Plains MO, Crazy about Pets owners David and Marge Malin in Margate Fl and veterinarian Dr.Jan Zwilling in Lauderhill Fl are made accountable for their cruel and deliberate actions. Hopefully people will remember there names, and continue exposing as many as we can.

Pam "Beanie's" owner January 2nd, 2009 04:26:12 AM

Pam: My heart just aches for you. You were exploited by the breeder, store and vet and I applaud you for outing the vet.

And pay no attention to the folks on this blog who say "well she should have known better" or some such. I hate, hate, hate, this blame the owner mentality. At the risk of sounding like a broken record - we need to shut the puppy mills and puppy selling pet stores down, sue the hell out of them and yes, keep getting the word out.

With all the back and forth here - one of my major issues with this mentality has not been addressed. If its my fault if I buy a puppy mill puppy, whose fault is it if I adopt one unknowingly from a shelter - like my brother and his wife. The dog is over a year old. He was supposedly relinquished because a family lost their home. We have no idea if the behavoral problems were disclosed or apparent to the shelter staff. Should they take it back now that they are emotionally attached to it? Should they put it to sleep because of defects it didn't ask for.

If I follow the logic of KateH and others then its really their fault that they didn't somehow research the history of this dog to determine whether he was a puppy mill puppy. Get real! Unless you shut down the source, these dogs will make their way into the animal purchase chain. If I follow your logic, then any dog rescued from a puppy mill should be put down. Yet every week, I read about some massive seizure of animals and people adopting them. Is that irresponsible?

As for the fork incident KateH - please don't have children. You cannot imagine how fast little ones can get into trouble. And having no sympathy for parents, even stupid parents, tells me more about you than you should really want me to know. I'd rather interact with 100 stupid people than 1 person without empathy.

2CatMom January 2nd, 2009 09:11:06 AM

2CatMom, what I said was that the need to 'purchase now' was the problem - as Beanie's owner clearly said she did - she came right out and said she wasn't even intending to get a dog, yet that need to have it now, overrode her common sense. She also said, as the clients I was talking about, knew about puppy mills - not to the extent she now knows about the whole ugly picture, but she did know. Yes, to her, personally, my comments seem to have no empathy, but the harsh tone in my reply to you and PJBoosinger, was specifically meant for the two of you. The general lack of sympathy to the overall situation that impulse buyers generate in me is because I've seen it about a dozen times last month alone and I was mad about hearing yet another case. In every case that I personally interact with an owner, I have the chance to modify my words to their words and actions, and while I might be figuratively gritting my teeth, I don't literally do it in front of them (I hope you know the difference). I focus on the puppy and do my damnedest to let them know that I will help the vet to the best of my abilities to help their puppy get better. However, as I mentioned in a previous post about Chihuahuas, the owners words and actions are often a problem. The one specific client I was thinking about in my initial post has brought in two puppies this year. The first, purchased for $5 from a box at a campground, is a genetic mess of Shar Pei and Lab with maybe something else, and has behavior issues that we told her could become a problem, which was confirmed when he was brought in for a neuter and tried to visciously attack the vet and vet tech - and now, the woman wants me to help them deal with training issues, because they brought home another puppy (from the storefront), and the first dog is trying to kill the other one, which is a sickly, little teacup Yorkie. They were told that the first dog was obviously a product of people who weren't too caring about their dogs (they'd seen these people at the campground selling puppies before), and we gave them info about what they might do next time (meaning sometime way down the road, not 6 months later), and they just ignored it. They paid $450 for the new puppy ("We wanted more than a $5 dog" were their exact words), and yes, the love they have isn't to be discounted, it's hard to fathom why they thought it would turn out to be a picture-perfect situation.

As for your uncalled for nasty comment about telling me not to have children - there are so many things I'd like to say, but won't because I'd rather not offend anyone else here. The incindent I referred to happened to a child I know, and the parent was supposed to be watching the child, but had buddies over and was showing off how 'cool' he was by dressing the child in a LeBron jersey and then getting so involved with the game that the child crawled over to the TV - in full view of everyone, clutching the fork - and then crawled behind the TV - which was in a big cabinet close to the wall, so the wiggling to get behind it wasn't a lightening fast move - and the first words out of the parent's mouth when the TV zapped out where "Damn cable" and only when he stood up did he wonder how the jersey got where it was, and then connected the jersey to his kid, did he pay attention to the child. I only learned about this two years later when one of the buddies told the story in a bar, as if it was the funniest thing in the world, because the mother was mentioning a problem the child was having with hand trembles, and the buddy said "I wonder if it's from when he got zapped." When she turned and punched the father and he said, "My EMT buddy got him breathing right away" I left before I lost my temper. I do have empathy for children, and I have some empathy for the mother, but she'd been told by a previous girlfriend......You know what, this isn't the forum for this, but don't presume you know me and my understanding or sympathy about a situation. People make bad choices all the time - my point was that they need to admit them, and understand that they had a part in how it all turns out. I am very glad that Beanie's mom is now going to work to expose this horrendous happening to even more people, and I do empathise with how she's feeling in her loss, but empathy and sympathy are not the same thing, no matter that the words are similarly spelled.

KateH January 2nd, 2009 10:55:57 AM

Clearly both 2CatMom and KateH are true animal lovers. You can easily see that through the anger they express. Both are frustrated with this puppy mill industry. How can you not be? But remember we are all on the same side and pray for only one outcome. Trust me when I tell you, how much I would love to get on a plane and fly to Missouri to come face to face with Beanie's breeder Christina Collins, but where is that going to get me? Definetly noticed for sure...if they don't drag me in their woods and shoot me first. All kidding aside, we sometimes need to step out of our box to realize not every situation is the same that "purchase now" in my case turned out to give Beanie a week of being loved. To me, that's better then never being loved at all!

Pam "Beanie's" owner January 2nd, 2009 01:04:53 PM

KatieH: So now you explain the fork incident which of course, is negligence at the worst. But let's quote you..."the parents, not so much." From your latest post - you indicate the mother had no idea. And you have no sympathy for her. Okey dokey. Hey few years ago while retrieving a cat toy from behind a piece of furniture - I conducted my own experiment in arc welding - stupid, yes, but who would have thought that a coat hanger being used to scoop out a ball would end up in the electric socket

Now of course, I don't REALLY think you don't have sympathy for her - but when you state things in black and white - don't be suprised if people take you at your word. And that's the problem I'm having with your posts - you want everyone to do the right thing - well they won't.

You're dealing with human beings, smart, stupid, informed uninformed, buying on impulse, researching to death. Which is why you must educate as best you can, but the only way you can end the problem is at the source - with the millers. No profit = no puppies.

And I still really, really, really, don't like your approach to the owners of these dogs. Your posts seem to be implying that Pam and others like her deserve these tragedies. That people like you are the real victims because you have to grit your teeth and suffer because of their stupidity. If this isn't what you mean, then you need to remember that when we read your posts we have no other way to interpret them other than the words themselves. If you are offended by my saying this - fine - but your posts are coming across (at least to me) as sanctimonious martyrdom. And on an unrelated note - I wish someone would address these questions:

1)what do you believe is the responsibility of shelter and adopters from shelters in identifying puppy mill dogs and 2)how do you keep these dogs from entering the supply chain through shelters, etc. Because as long as puppy millers keep producing puppies they'll be in the system - either a heart break for the original purchaser or perhaps someone else when the dog is dumped at a shelter.

2CatMom January 2nd, 2009 02:48:06 PM

I never said they 'deserved' these tragedies - and stop trying to decide what I said, since you missed it right from the first post. As I said "People make bad choices all the time - my point was that they need to admit them, and understand that they had a part in how it all turns out." Perhaps because you have your own situations that have impacted on you and your family, you assume I mean it is all the owner's fault. Of course it isn't as there are a large number of puppies from bad backgrounds of all kinds that don't end up getting sick and having their health issues cause heartbreak in their owners. I don't think that it's all to their credit when this happens either. Depending on one's personal philosophy, maybe it's God's fault, or to God's credit. Maybe it's just dumb luck. Maybe it's timing of genetic/disease issues rearing their ugly head in the presence of a great vet, who's on the ball and has everything meshing to solve the problem before it's gotten beyond the "Hmmm...this isn't right" stage.

However, to have so many other people rushing to 'defend' someone's part in the tragedy, as if they need absolution from a community, is what I have an issue from. I truly appreciate Beanie's mom stepping up and saying, "Yes, I did this" instead of just saying, "It's all someone else's fault." Yes, there was a cascade of horrible things that happened - and yes, I'd like to go to Missouri with her - but without her impulse purchase, the impact on her, personally, would not have happened the way it did. I do understand her loss - I've lost dogs too, and no matter how or why it happens, it sucks and it hurts - but my point was the choice she made. I completely agree, on a purely emotional level, with having given Beanie a week of love being a better life for him than not having it. I will not give examples of the animals I've dealt with in similar ways to you, 2CatMom, as you've decided I'm a mean person, and that's between me and each creature I love and help.

Lastly, the mother in the situation had made several bad choices in her getting into that relationship that caused me to have a problem when she kept asking for sympathy for clearly foreseeable consequences to her actions, and that's where the "the parents, not so much part" was coming from. Yes, I understood her pain at having to deal with the hand tremors her child had, but still, if she hadn't taken the initial action she did in dating the guy, the situation wouldn't have happened. And before you point out that no one knows the way like will turn out, yes, I agree. However, not trying at all to improve the odds in a good outcome from that choice, and then saying "I was the wronged party" isn't fair either. And that's all I'm going to say on the subject to you.

KateH January 2nd, 2009 04:30:53 PM

KatieH: My final word to you is watch out for that Karma train. If you expect perfection (or just need your pound of flesh) from others, don't be suprised when someday, G-d forbid you need help there's no one around for you.

Seriously, if that's how you feel about the mother - I'm sure as hell glad you're not my friend. I've made bad decisions in my life, and so have many of my friends. And shit happens. I didn't realize how blessed I was to have friends who didn't stand around waiting for me to cry 'mea cupla' but rather stepped in and helped without criticism, and without expecting anything in return (though they know I'd move heaven and earth for them).

Thanks for the insight - I think I'll call two of them now and thank them for being real friends.

"The only way to have a friend is to be a friend." (Ralph Waldo Emerson)

2CatMom January 2nd, 2009 06:22:49 PM

Thank you 2CatMom for your kind words. I agree with you as well, KateH you do need to come down off your high horse and if it's sympathy you can't give I suggest you show us some support through education. Tell us as many horror stories you can but don't call us stupid. You sound like PBrown a few days ago saying Sorry, but if you "buy drunk" really bad things will happen to you. That is probably the most ignorant comment i have ever heard. Actually my first thought was "Oh no...are these the type of people I want to open up to? Like I said before, were all out for the same thing so lets try supporting one another. We know we made a bad choice and now were suffering the horrible heartache. Don't worry the smart ones will feel bad enough and hopefully won't make that choice ever again. Even if they do feel they are rescuing the animal. But to say KateH that we had a part in how this all played out could of happened to someone buying a puppy from a shelter. Granted the odds are not as great, however like 2CatMom said..we need to go right to the source that way the next family won't be handing over any money to these pet shop owners.

Pam "Beanie's" owner January 2nd, 2009 07:12:06 PM

Pam, It takes awhile, but as any group there are diversified opinions. There are plenty on the list that are empathetic as well. It is ALWAYS easy and one's first instinct to blame the VICTIM. I should know, I was screamed at by a vet that broke the law and inhumanely murdered my 11 1/2 yr. old dog in my ARMS...how's that for "dumb as rocks"??

I guess I must have been "drunk" to go to that clinic...even though I don't drink! So a BAD, BAD thing happened to my dog and ME.

Ignore the BS, take the good out of it. And Dr. K. is one darn great sport to allow first ammendment to take priority on her blog....keeps us all coming back and glued to the forum.

I wish you all success in your pursuit of JUSTICE!

Barbara Albright/life-long res. of NH

ps. we fondly call our 2 12yr. old Scotties "the beanies" & a relative in S. Boston had a wonderful Boston terrier named "Duke"...they are a wonderful breed

Pocket's Story from NH January 2nd, 2009 09:27:14 PM

Pam: Thank you for having the courage to post your coments here. It's not always an "easy" group. But you clearly understand where these emotions come from...the love of animals. Kudos to you for seeking justice. So few have the b---s to do it.

Dr. Patty Khuly January 3rd, 2009 07:40:45 AM

this is so sad. i had a friend whose parents bought a bosten terrier puppy at a pet store 5-7 years ago. i can remember being worried because of where she got the puppy and telling my friend that i thought she should take her to her own vet to get a full check up. good thing he did because he had parvo. luckily he pulled through but the went to their own vet, spent a ton of money and the vet was aggressive with treatment from the get go. they offered to take their dog back and give her another when she called them and told the pet store he had parvo. she already loved him and said no. i told her to see about suing for the vet bills. i lost contact with them so i am not sure what the outcome with the vet bills.

katy January 5th, 2009 10:31:27 AM

Quite by Accident, I stumbled upon the following site:

http://www.furrybabiesinc.com/package.html

Looks nice, doesn't it. Talks about those USDA approved kennels and all the puppies are hand picked (well how else would you get them off the truck).

they are in my general area - so I think I'll email them with some questions about where their puppies come from....and share what they have to say.

2CatMom January 6th, 2009 10:06:51 PM

My first dog was a Lab, intended to be the alpha bitch of a byb.  That was years ago and I didn't have a clue what a byb was.  She didn't work out for them and they were looking for someone to take her (after they'd had her chained to a wall by a choke chain in the garage for over 2 weeks and she'd become quite fearful and aggressive, gee, I wonder why).  I couldn't get her out of there fast enough.  She wasn't even close to breed standard but she was still a wonderful dog after quite a bit of rehab.  She was spayed almost immediately (although she had to be muzzled at the vet for a couple of years).

My current dogs, a Lab and a Shiba, came from PetLand in Kansas City.  Yep, I knew a little about bybs and mills and I suspected something was hinky with these pups.  I knew for sure, it being the week after Xmas and they being the only two pups in the store that was about to close for a week, that they would be sent back to the breeder to be put down (or worse, bred) or put down directly as that is the general eventuality for pets not purchased.  I would have liked at least a day to check out the Shiba breed, of which I had ZERO knowledge, but the pups were scheduled to be shipped off first thing the next morning.  I brought them both home knowing they might well be "trust fund" babies (ie in need of lots of costly care).  They both had kennel cough, of course, and I called the store and the breeder, merely to advise them of it and so they could pass it on to authorities, etc. (how VERY naive of me).  Both immediately offered to take them back/exchange them in cold tones.  Good thing for them I had two sick dogs or I might well have visited them both.  You see, I'm a logic person and yet I'd fallen head over heals for both these pups through a window along a walkway in a mall.

They've both had some medical problems but the Shiba has luxated patellas, severe allergies, and a number of other medical issues.  I've dropped about $10,000 extra for her over 8 years and expect to spend more.  I don't mind that but I do resent that nearly half of the cost was due to lack of knowledge of several Vets along the way.  (Hence my issues with Vets generally although I've know a couple of REALLY good and professional ones too.)  On the flip side, but for this, I'd probably never have done all the research I have and be such an opponent of bybs and mills since that opposition is a direct result of all this.  I haven't been active for quite a while because I had a series of mini strokes a few years ago and it's been a long road back but it's also a road I don't think I would have survived without these two "mill" dogs.

Pam, my dogs also came from the Kansas/Missouri breeders and I have a farm in Missouri.  Shall we see what we can do with the local authorities up there/boycott/march on them/etc.?

Doc, thanks for the responses AND for explaining the text issue.  Time to use that browser I've been avoiding learning how to use.

PJBoosinger January 6th, 2009 10:25:44 PM

I am so sorry that beautiful dog has died... Beanie looked so adorable. :-(

http://holy-cuteness.blogspot.com January 8th, 2009 09:25:05 AM

This is very sad. But some many people go into these Pet Stores and buy puppies from them. Everybody out there needs to be educated in buying from Pet Stores. If you want a certain Breed of Dog go to there Kennel Club Site of that Breed. These Breeder's that are members of Breeder Clubs cannot sell to Pet Stores or they will no longer be members of that Club. Pet Stores act like they are all up to code and clean inside. They are not. Do to the traffic that comes in through the door all day long and many people bring there Pets right in the stores too. Many airborne diease's are brought in. Try to find a breeder that shows dogs and breeds for good sound dogs, mentally too. The reason why these Puppy Mill Breeders sell to pet stores is because it is a good way to dump and get ready of a bunch of dogs fast. Many of these breeds look cute when they are small, and all puppies look cute, but it is when they get older is were all the bad traits come out as far as in there Hips, eyes and fronts are concerned. And be careful not to fall prey to all these Dog Web Sites out there too. They do not breed for comfirmation and the betterment of the Breed. Check out and see if there parents were Champions that is the sire and dam. Don't fall for , Champions in there back ground. There is a reason why there sire and dam was not a Champion. There are exceptions, if the dog just didn't like the show ring. That can frighten some dogs being in the ring. Just ask why. And do a Pedigree back ground check on the dog you will buy. Don't fall for Grand and Greatgrand were Champions. Some people just breed 2 and 2 together and hope to come out with 4 pups. They do not breed, for to make the Breed better. Thank you. To all just be carful. And do your homework on the dog you buy.

Michael Dunnington January 11th, 2009 08:38:37 PM

This is very sad. But some many people go into these Pet Stores and buy puppies from them. Everybody out there needs to be educated in buying from Pet Stores. If you want a certain Breed of Dog go to there Kennel Club Site of that Breed. These Breeder's that are members of Breeder Clubs cannot sell to Pet Stores or they will no longer be members of that Club. Pet Stores act like they are all up to code and clean inside. They are not. Do to the traffic that comes in through the door all day long and many people bring there Pets right in the stores too. Many airborne diease's are brought in. Try to find a breeder that shows dogs and breeds for good sound dogs, mentally too. The reason why these Puppy Mill Breeders sell to pet stores is because it is a good way to dump and get ready of a bunch of dogs fast. Many of these breeds look cute when they are small, and all puppies look cute, but it is when they get older is were all the bad traits come out as far as in there Hips, eyes and fronts are concerned. And be careful not to fall prey to all these Dog Web Sites out there too. They do not breed for comfirmation and the betterment of the Breed. Check out and see if there parents were Champions that is the sire and dam. Don't fall for , Champions in there back ground. There is a reason why there sire and dam was not a Champion. There are exceptions, if the dog just didn't like the show ring. That can frighten some dogs being in the ring. Just ask why. And do a Pedigree back ground check on the dog you will buy. Don't fall for Grand and Greatgrand were Champions. Some people just breed 2 and 2 together and hope to come out with 4 pups. They do not breed, for to make the Breed better. Thank you. To all just be carful. And do your homework on the dog you buy.

Michael Dunnington January 11th, 2009 08:40:58 PM

PJBossinger Thank you for your responses and stepping up. Yes, I would very much like to talk more with you on this subject. Please send me an email at caninecries@yahoo.com I welcome any and all emails from anyone looking to stop puppymill breeding once and for all. Thanks to everyone Pam

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