Over the past few days I’ve been corresponding with the owner of a kitty whose expressed desire is to maintain her cat’s reproductive integrity—sans ability to bear kittens. Tubal ligation is the subject of her inquiry: “Is it advisable if my goals for her include sexual activity?”
Hmmm… This is a weird one for sure. Despite the fact that I have better things to do than correspond with people some of you might discount as “plain nuts,” I’m easily intrigued by these questions. My vet boyfriend quips that I just can’t resist a train wreck.
But I disagree. For me, these queries help me wrap my head around the full spectrum of reasons behind why we vets traditionally recommend what we do. And it’s my view that everyone deserves a thoughtful answer if I have the inclination (and time) to provide it.
My answer to her?
After enumerating the many reasons why I believe her goals are out of line with comfortable catdom
- (continuous heat cycles are stressful for cats,
- keeping Toms indoors is inadvisable at best,
- disease transmission through sexual activity is common among felines,
- sex necessarily involves aggressive behavior in cats,
- intercourse with a barbed penis is considered painful, need I go on…?),
I urged her to consider a hysterectomy( not an ovariohysterectomy where both ovaries and uterus are removed) if she was absolutely resolved to allow her cat an intact lifestyle. At least this way pyometra isn’t a possibility (though mammary tumors will still remain a risk).
The question for dogs is an easier one. Canine comfort is not so much a factor due to the infrequency of heat cycles. Though pyometras and mammary tumors are still the number one and two risks, respectively, the benefits of sex hormones are better understood in canines, even if the jury’s still out on the risks and rewards when it comes to spaying.
As with the above cat’s example, I’d urge dog owners to consider a hysterectomy, which would allow for the benefits of ovarian hormones while eliminating the risk of pyometra along with that pesky bleeding every six months.
It’s true, however, that we don’t fully understand the problems a hysterectomy alone might entail: Will the remaining cervix be subject to greater risk of infections (so-called, “stump pyometras”)? Do the hormones produced by the uterus itself count for anything? At least with tubal ligation (which essentially preserves the condition of the intact bitch) we’re aware of the risks and benefits, limited though our understanding may yet be.
During an interview with an msnbc.com reporter last week, I had cause to examine my position more carefully on this score. She asked smart, pointed questions, allowing me to dig deep holes for myself in my answers.
I guess I really hadn’t considered the full spectrum of the issues involved in the question of tubal ligation—though I’ve always maintained an open mind on it’s potential utility, as I have for vasectomies (which I’ll happily perform in the case of dogs).
In my post-interview musings, I gleaned the following insights:
Pet medicine is an increasingly individualized discipline with pet owners seeking idealized conditions for the personal needs of their pets and their households. Sure, population management and public heath are still crucial issues, but I’d argue they receive far less attention than in years past relative to the drive to do what’s best by our family members.
That’s why the issue of tubal ligation and vasectomy has recently surged in popularity. With states and municipalities looking for ways to curb the severe overpopulation of unwanted pets, legislation mandating early spays and neuters in our dogs and cats (four months is way too early according to most veterinarians), pet owners are avidly seeking alternative ways to sterilize their pets.
As for most veterinarians, treating the overpopulation problem among unwanted pets often seems at odds with our goals for the adored ones in our midst. This dichotomy finds no better expression than in the rift between animal lovers with a similar love of animals but who view the mandatory spay/neuter conundrum from opposite sides of the fence.
Could it be that tubal ligation and vasectomy are the solution (though no doubt imperfect) to our political divide? In many ways I hope so. I’d love nothing better than to see animal lovers solve their differences in ways that would meet all of society’s goals.
Tubal ligations in cats? I still don’t think it’s cool. But I’ll support a pet owner’s well-researched decision to do so.
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This issue came up for me around 2000, when I noticed my recently-acquired, spayed Dane was ever-so enticing to the boys. I wondered, 'Is is possible she had a hysterectomy or tubal ligation, rather than an ovariohysterectomy?'
My good friend (also our vet.) indicated it was extremely unlikely. The fact that she was spayed at a humane shelter pretty much clinched the deal. (I mean, the likelihood they were doing cutting-edge forms of sterilization or some sort of research project, seemed rather unlikely, given the setting.)
Still, my spayed girl continues to amaze the owners of intact male dogs, and other observers at, say, dog parks. Males clamour around her behind, and vie for the best angle. They sniff. They lick. They drool.
I've heard the owners of these males (and some neutered males and even some females) remark with astonishment, he/she/it "...has never behaved like this before." It's so common, I usually just reply, "There's 'something' about her that some dogs are really attracted to." And leave it at that.
Recently, one of these flabbergasted owners asked if my dog was in heat. I explained that she was not only spayed, but was spayed eight years ago. (i.e. no 'residual')
Even more recently, my dog was a bit ahead of me at the off-leash park and met-up with "the group" before I did. A few seconds behind, arrived amongst the other owners only to hear them all exclaiming how curious it was that all the males were gathered around my dog's rump. Their eyes were big. Some were pointing. They were busy commenting on the situation. My girl, used to this attention, just goes on about her business...unless one of them tries to mount her. Then she tells them to knock it off, in a polite way, of course. ;-) Invariably, there'll be at least one (usually immature) male who just won't take the hint, and makes life uncomfortable for her. The owners are usually beside themselves, trying to get their males to stop licking her, following her, and tormenting her. (It's sweet that they try.)
I've always wondered what it is about my dog that garners such a strong and amourous reaction from the fellas.
Marjorie May 4th, 2008 02:29:00 PM
Marjorie: Curiouser and curiouser...I have no clue...ovarian remnant, perhaps?
Dr. Patty Khuly May 4th, 2008 08:49:00 PM
Oh, and I'd add that I, too, agree that 16 weeks is way too young for sterilization in most dogs, and absolutely for giant breeds, like my beloved Danes. Personally, I'd never do it that young on a Dane. I'd move, if my local laws required me to sterilize my pets that young, or I might try the methods you describe...then possibly 'finishing the job' after physical maturity, if needed.
Marjorie May 4th, 2008 08:53:00 PM
The vet I worked for had a client that requested a hysterectomy-only for her dog. The client had recently gone through an OHE of her own and was uncomfortable doing it to her dog. So, the dog still went into heat, and the client left the dog out to do her business with the boys. Two days later, the dog collapsed into septic shock from a terrible stump infection. She made it, and the client conceded to having the ovaries removed as well. The vet said she'd never do that procedure again after seeing what happened to that dog. I really don't like the idea myself.
Julia May 4th, 2008 10:24:00 PM
Julia: You raise a great point. It's clear to me that a hysterectomy is a very different procedure than an ovariohysterectomy, yet few vets have ever seen the "plain" hysterectomy procedure described--much less done one. It's crucial to reach all the way to the cervix for a hysterectomy so that no uterine tissue remains. But that's not always so easy to do as it sounds for vets who have spent all their working lives making small incisions and relying on the lack of ovaries to eliminate hormonal influence on the bit of uterus remaining. Tubal ligation seems infinitely safer in that sense.
Dr. Patty Khuly May 5th, 2008 08:45:00 AM
I'm fascinated with this subject and hope that more studies are done to fully understand all the pros/cons of hormone influences on disease/cancer.
My #1 reason to choose a complete spay is pyometra prevention. I have always been able to fully prevent accidental breedings, stray dogs and with small dogs, a mess is not an issue.(however, I have had a few with UTI post-season).
Oh, and one of my girls continued to act as though she had regular "seasons", and I too, questioned the possibility of "remnants" ----my males should interest also. This completely disappeared after a couple of years.
But, once again, I have spayed my youngest at the age 7, a year ago, having never been bred (was a bit short on cash to complete sooner!!) and now have a soon to be 8 yr. old that has become "portly" and thinning coat. (yes, a thyroid check is in order--for sure).
My curiosity stems from my experience, that my 2 longest-lived girls , just happened to both whelp & be spayed at a later age, than most. My longest-lived male was also intact for life.
Coincidence---probably??
I'd like to add, that my oldest living "dottie" , did infact have mammary cancer--progressed to lymphoma, and my oldest male Scottie, did have osteosarcoma at the end. Still, both outlived average breed expectancy by 3 yrs and 2 1/2 yrs---and one other also by 3 1/2 years.
Barbara A. Albright/New Hampshire May 5th, 2008 07:05:00 PM
I should clarify that this curiosity (described in my comment above) is not limited to a couple of times a year, or other theory that hints at a residual heat cycle of some kind. We go to off-leash parks pretty much every day, and most encounters with intact males will have this result. It's just that we don't meet a lot of intact male dogs. (That's slowly changing, I've noticed, though.)
If it only happened a couple of times a year, that might support that kind of theory. More importantly, if it only happened a couple of times a year, I doubt I'd even notice a pattern. But it happens most of the time we meet-up with intact males (and occasionally some neutered males and even some females). (A friend's aged, intact female Rottweiler, for instance, was relentlessly after my dog's unit...licking, drooling, and doing the dry hump thing while following her around.)
Since my veterinarian is also a close friend, I could try to do all sorts of hormonal tests and whatnot. It's just that it's not a "problem." So when my friend witnesses this curiosity, even she's not inclined to go looking for an "answer." (i.e. The female Rottie was hers.) (In fact, now that I think of it, the only time my dog ever exhibited a "gay tail" was the first time she met this friend's other dogs, two of them neutered males. The two males were both dry humping her at the same time - the toy breed on one of her front legs, and the blue Doberman behind her. I don't necessarily include that incident with what I'm talking about above. They eventually settled down, after meeting her a few times, and interacted predictably with her. I'm just recalling that all my friend's dogs were rather 'amourous' towards my dog, it seems. All but the spayed female Doberman, who always acted "normally" around her.)
It's a puzzle, that's for sure. There's just 'something' about my dog that is rather enticing to some dogs.
Marjorie May 7th, 2008 08:35:00 AM
Marjorie: Just yesterday I heard of a local vet's experience with a dog that had been spayed 7! years ago. She'd always attracted males but she'd never appeared to ever go into heat. Hormone tests were negative. In other words, they showed she was a normal spayed dog. But this week she acquired what appeared to be a severe vaginitis. It ended up being a stump pyometra and an ovarian remnant (confirmed on histopathology) the size of a pea was removed from her abdomen. It happens.
Dr. Patty Khuly May 7th, 2008 10:15:00 AM
Fascinating. Another thing to add to my lexicon. :-)
Marjorie May 7th, 2008 06:22:00 PM
I posted a comment yesterday, but it's not listed. What's wrong? Thanks.
hayley July 14th, 2008 05:19:00 AM
Wow! A vet that actually believes inn the vascetomies and tubals or hystos. The hysterectomie s are great as your dog is hormonaly intact but pyo. proof. Just remove all the uteres. I havent had one done in a while , I just do a vas. on my male and leave the females alone. All the dogs but one, that nave died were at or beyond life expectancy and were intact. none died of a repo related disorder. I have had a couple pyos for which we did a hysto. but I know the signs and and they weren t critical when surgery was done.
azuritemor September 2nd, 2008 02:45:00 AM
Thank you for posting all the stories you have. I am helping out the neighbors by providing permanent birth control for Brownie, a 1-year-old female dog who is just coming into her second heat. I am very interested in a tubal ligation or a uterus-only hysterectomy for her, and her official guardians are open to it.
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Arnald June 17th, 2009 04:44:22 AM
It's interesting that a vet is thinking and writing about this. I was trying to decide between a uterus-only hysterectomy and a tubal ligation for a cat who has just had kittens a little over a month ago for pretty much the same reasons - leaving her intact - hormonally and lifestyle-wise. I have no problems with her jaunts with the neighbourhood toms - it's her life, and I have no problem with it.. In Bombay, India, where I live, none of the vets think that either of these two procedures are possible without pyometra/ stump pyometra.. Conventional wisdom is that stump pyometra is a certainty post hysterectomy (non-ovio). How much is really known about this, and could it be that the complications are caused by inexperienced vets who don't know how to perform the procedure (since the vast majority of vets have never performed such operations)? Does anyone have any information about this? Interestingly, castrations done to effect behaviour modifications in dogs sometimes don't work. A friend once had an aggressive/ hyper dog. The vet advised a castration. Zilch, zero effect.. The dog behaved just as it did before. It was obviously a training/human/social factor that caused the aggression to begin with. It helps to revisit the wisdom behind de-sexing animals and our real motives behind them. Sanjiv
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thanks!
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My experience began when my younger sister had Tubal Ligation (fallopian tubes "tied", or rather, severed by laser) at age 22. She was already the mother of two, a boy & girl, and had decided with her husband that they wanted no more children. Within a year of the surgery she began a physical, mental & emotional decline that could only be classified as pre-mature menopause. In short, her young body was no longer producing the hormones necessary to maintain normal functioning of every aspect of bodily life. It is no secret to any woman who has ever gone through menopause naturally or due to surgical hysterectomy that negative health effects follow. Due to the absence of the hormones produced by the ovaries, every other regulatory organ and hormone declines. Skin begins to loose its youthful appearance and ability to re-generate as likewise every tissue in your body experience decreased ability to re-generate. Bone density is lost and a host of other health problems are tragically more common than not, though suppressed by the medical establishment, and range from depression, anxiety, lethargy, fatigue, hair loss & depressed immune system response as well as an increased risk of heart disease & cancer. Many states have been pushed by civil litigation to enact Uninformed Consent laws to protect patient's rights and require doctors to disclose the facts about what the ensuing consequences and risks of removing a vital party of your body will be. As in my sister's case, no one, including her doctor, ever told her that hormones secreted by her ovaries such as estrogen and progesterone were elemental in the homeostasis of every other hormone secreting organ in the body and thus vital to her overall health & well being. Nor did they ever tell her that most women have two sets of arteries feeding each ovary - one running up the fallopian tube and one coming from the uterine wall, but that some women only have one set or the other, and that in tubal ligation with laser the artery is not discerned from the fallopian tube & both the artery and the tube would be severed, and that if she were one of those women whom only had that set of ovarian arteries that her ovaries would shrivel up and die from lack of blood thereby forcing her to menopause at age 22. In almost every hysterectomy case hormone therapy is prescribed to help offset these negative effects, though their good is questionable & often negligible since many hormone replacement drugs have proven over the last few decades to be more damaging than beneficial. Many of them have been associated with increased risk of breast cancers while others have been re-called completely. Somehow it seems the pharmaceutical companies are so arrogant & greedy, and the FDA so incompetent as to approve these drugs before proper testing is completed. I should know. My mother had breast cancer shortly after having a radical hysterectomy due to advanced endometriosis when I was 17. Through her and my sister's experiences we all three have learned all too well what the actual dangers of hysterectomy are. In this sense, what makes us think that things are different for our pets? Why would they not experience the same damaging effects? After all our domesticated animals get the same diseases (cancer, heart disease, obesity, etc.) as us humans while no animal in the wild suffers from these diseases like their domesticated counterparts. Could it be that the shortsightedness & corruption of the western medical establishment is worse in veterinary medicine where the patients can not tell you how they feel or what they are experiencing after a given treatment or procedure? And finally, if we know from basic biology that reproductive organ hormones are implicated in the chemical homeostasis of our entire body system (all organs) why would it be different for our animal counterparts? Therefore, I can not and will not justify spaying & neutering as a form of controlling unwanted pet populations. That would be like saying that because there are thousands of children who die every year from starvation & disease we must surgically sterilize men, women and children. As an alternative, I would suggest you allow your pet to keep their organs and therefore their hormones, health & quality of life, and simply opt to find a vet who will perform canine or feline Tubal Ligation or Vasectomy (aka: tubes tied).
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Fascinating. Another thing to add to my lexicon. :-)
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I can't read this Article without laughing. Clearly, It is written by corrupted vet who makes a lot of money on those so called "If you love your pet" surgeries. People, think about it, we do everything what they tell us is the best for our pets. So we follow their suggestions without any doubts since they are "professionals "The question is- are they?. Our society is becoming nothing less but bunch of zombies that do not know how to think on their own. And I am not talking about pets only. Take the food we buy for example: most of it is filled with chemicals and fillers that destroys our bodies and minds. So what do we do about it? Nothing, we keep feeding our children with all that junk, because we are simply to lazy to cook and also because monkeys superstars who sniff cocaine all day long promote junk foods on TV.
People, wake up and think for yourself. And stop mutilate your pets because someone said it is good for them and wants to make money of you. Animals can't tell you how they feel, if they could you would get a heart attack from hearing their horror storeys. One more point: Vets assuring you that if you don't spay/neutering your pet, it will get cancer. It is total crap!!!
So lets cut off breasts in all women in early age possible and they will never get breast cancer. Sounds absurd wright? So why are we doing the same for our pets??? Simply Because we think we have wrights to do so.
And one more thing I am begging everyone not to declaw you cats. It is most horrible procedure.
( It is the same as you would cut off all you fingertips at ones and wait for months or even years for it to be healed)
SO I believe no animal should go through it ever!!! If you concern about scratched furniture please don't get a cat, think twice please... Cats are not toys for the humans, they are intelligent god's creatures and we should respect their wrights to exist in the form that god created them.
ella January 5th, 2010 11:47:15 AM
Patty, I know your probably a busy lady, but if your going to have a blog it might be good to go through & delete all the spam in the comments section.
About your "reasons" for telling this poor woman her goals are "out of line" as you put it...
1. Continuous Heat Cycles are "stessfull" for cats.
-This is pure opinion, not a sound scientific basis for removal of a vital organ. Any female's period/cycle can be stressfull, but this is usually due to poor diet & lack of exercise. Again, indiginous non-westernized tribes & animals in the wild do not have these problems. It is a symptom of our poor western diet.
2. Keeping Toms indoors is inadvisable at best.
- This woman's cat was a female, not a male. Males can pose difficulty if trying to keep indoors only. This is not the case with females.
3. Sex involves aggressive behavior in cats & intercourse with a barbed penis is considered painful.
- Again, this is opinion. Are you a cat whisperer? Do cats tell you it hurts them to have sex? If it hurts so bad I doubt they would do it. This can hardly be considered good science, or science at all. I've seen my share of cats in heat, cat sex, cat pregnancy, cat birth, etc. Who are you to decide what feels good for a cat. How would you like it if someone decided you need to go under the knife because sex is uncomfortable for you? WTF Lady, I mean, seriously!
"need I go on" - No, you needn't. But perhaps you should have tried.
Suggested reading for you: Nutrition & Physical Degeneration - Weston A. Price, Pottenger's Cats Study
good luck to you :-)
Irene January 17th, 2010 09:58:29 PM
We live in south Florida, any names of vets who perform vasectomies that you might pass along? Hoping to avoid desexing my 8 mth old Golden Retriever!
Thanks!
Scott & Max
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Scott & Max,
Good luck finding a vet these days. I do not wish to discourage you, but I live in southern Cali (where we're suppose to have a great deal in alternative physicians & therapies available to us) and have had great difficulty trying to find a veterinary who didn't become completely indignent at the request, & proceed in attempts to belittle & scare me into full ovariohysterectomy. It's complete dejavou from when I attempted 8 years ago to find a dentist to fill my cavities with composite resin as opposed to mercury amalgum. Can't tell you how many dentists offices I walked out of after the dentist became completely offended at my request to not have mercury fillings & the notion that mercury in your mouth might be bad for anyone. We've come so far yet sometimes it still feels as though we're living in the dark ages.
Today we walked out of the office of a vet who tried to tell me that performing a tubal ligation would be mal-practice! She stated that removal of the ovaries & uterus were necessary to prevent ovarian, uterus & breast cancer. I cited recent statistics that stated her daughter was more likely to get one of these cancers than my cat & asked her if she would remove her own daughter's breasts, ovaries & uterus to prevent them from getting cancer? She said no. When I asked why would your pets be any different she answered, "because their pets."!
We will continue to search for a compitent vet who will honor our wishes. I wish you the same & good luck!
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