I get calls from people randomly - I live in a small village, people know I'm a vet and they will call when their dog gets run over or is dying for some mysterious reason in the middle of night, or when their cat vomits up a mess of worms. I have never given out my phone number, for the very legitimate reason that if I'm not physically at the clinic (where I'm an employee) then there's nothing I can do for them right there, right then, except advise them to call the clinic. I don't think I've ever had a bad experience. I guess I just handle it politely and firmly, and give the kind of advice I'd need if I were calling my doctor. Which come to think of it, I would never do. Some people just panic before they think, and there's not much you can do about that. Except to remember, thankfully, that most people are not like that.

brebis noire January 15th, 2009 11:02:00 AM

I think that in last night's case, it wouldn't have been a sin to start making static-y sounds and 'drop' the call, followed by turning the phone off for a while. I mean, really, out-of-state, you haven't seen this cat - and can't - that a 'duh' moment right there. The other kind of cases you mentioned though, yeah, that's a courtesy to give that, hopefully, will engender more good will than problems for you, and is worth a little potential trouble.

KateH January 15th, 2009 11:16:13 AM

Believe it or not, I get people who call my personal number at midnight and even show up on the doorstep of my house with emergencies.  And .. um .. I'm a wedding photographer.  Seriously - some people just have no sense of boundaries.

One thing I have done, and that you might consider, is getting a 2nd cell phone JUST to give out to clients.  My account allows me a 2nd line for $9.99 a month - and it shares the minutes from my main account.  I use it as my business cell phone and I ONLY give it out to clients who I am traveling to meet.  When I'm not traveling or at night, I turn it off.  The outgoing message on the voice mail specifies that it is an emergency number only and if your wedding is not *this coming weekend*, you should call the studio number at ... etc.  I let every call go to voice mail and then return ONLY the true emergency calls.  Anyone else gets called from the studio number during business hours the next day. 

I got burned giving out my personal number and now I never ever ever ever give out my personal cell phone.  Ever.

Kara January 15th, 2009 11:17:12 AM

I live 45 miles from where I work--seeing patients off hours (except in extreme cases--I have done ONE housecall euthanasia on a Sunday in this situation--but the circumstances were rather exceptional) is not generally possible for me.

I do give out my cell phone number in very rare cases though, usually only for good clients who I know won't abuse it, and only to people with sick pets who may or may not need emergency attention over a weekend or holiday.  I think I give out this number just a handful of times--and I did have one client turn me down because she was afraid she would abuse the privledge (I thought she would too, FWIW, but she was so uncertain I thought it would give her peace of mind.)

I've only had one person make me regret I gave her my number--she called me after midnight while I was on vacation with a sick pet that she knew should go to the ER and she just did not want to take it in.

drsteggy January 15th, 2009 11:21:47 AM

Two thoughts:

Firstly, last summer, I was comforted when my gravely-ill cat's ER vet gave me his cell phone number in addition to his practices' numbers. I understood that it was to be used under exceptional circumstances and never crossed that line. So as a pet parent, it's immensely reassuring just knowing that you have the ability to contact your vet at a crucial moment--akin to have your pediatrician available even.

Secondly, your situation is similar to experiences and challenges I had during my brief-stint as a social worker. On the one hand, you want to be there for your clients (which in my case were adolescents in foster care, their birth parents, & foster parents) but you also need to have your own personal life that is exclusive from your professional one. In that situation, one has to establish comfortable boundaries and not veer away from them. Perhaps you should look into a call-service that can act as a barrier between you and your clients? Perhaps establish days/hours/weekends that you just flat out won't answer clients? Perhaps there are no compromises that can be made and you decide you'll have to tolerate bad apples every now and again for the sake of the good ones or that the bad ones spoiled the whole barrel and your cell # is off-limits. Ultimately, it has to be whatever meets your needs best.

Monika January 15th, 2009 11:24:05 AM

I would not blame you if you decided to stop giving out your personal number. I would not expect that level of care from my own physcian, even. It stinks that the ER costs more, but it costs more because it is always available (I say this from recent experience of a human ER on a Saturday where I spent a $100 copay to get treated for strep throat when I actually had mono) and we should be wiling to pay for that availablity. Both for people and for our animals.

Being a vet I'm sure makes up a huge part of your life, but you aren't ONLY a veterinarian. Sorry about the meanies!

Lori January 15th, 2009 11:32:56 AM

My vet has given me his cell number, as our rescue takes a number of animals to him, but I don't think I've ever called it.  There's an emergency vet local to us so I rarely see the point in waking him up at 1am as well for the same thing the e-vet is going to do.

Jenny January 15th, 2009 11:38:42 AM

I think it's kind of you to give your number to clients you think might need you due to current circumstances - with the explanation you provide.

The idea of using a 2nd line that someone mentioned seems like a reasonable precaution, although that requires carrying an extra phone.

I have my vet's home number, because our kids attended school together and we were scout leaders together. I have never used it for a vet call, even when I had to put my 15 yo dog to sleep and he was off duty on his usual day in the office. I'd specifically waited for that day to go in, but it just didn't work out so I went with the vet that was on duty.

If I had a serious problem that I knew of I might ask for permission to call him at home, because there is no emergency clinic nearby. In a life or death emergency I might call him before heading for the emergency clinic...

I would hope that most people would be appreciative and considerate, but there are always the few who are not. Those I would not hesitate to cut short, if necessary!

Diane January 15th, 2009 12:14:26 PM

Kara is right with "Seriously - some people just have no sense of boundaries."  When I first went into practice as an attorney, I gave out my pager number liberally and it was liberally abused, especially with "911" pages.  Over the course of one day, a client 911 paged me repeatedly while I was in court and I returned the pages with a call only to find out it was anything but an emergency; they paged me about 10 more times that day and, after 3 similar return calls and still having my pager go off, I threw my pager out the window of my car.  After that, clients had to sign a written agreement that specified consequences for abuse.  That worked incredibly well.

These days, everyone gets my ground line number and I have two cell phones, business and personal.  I have caller ID on all and everyone knows that they should call the ground line first; cell if it's a reasonable hour (8 AM to 9 PM) and can't wait a couple of hours; neither will be picked up for an unidentifed caller ID, no exceptions; abuse the privilege of having my cell number and I'll put you in my phone book as DNA (do not answer) Jane.  If my cell goes off between 9 PM and 8 AM, it better be important to ME.  These days, I prefer email for little stuff and prefer that they be short and to the point, I'll let the emailer know if it's not something that can be handled as easily as they thought.

Years ago, my first Lab, who hadn't had any health problems in the two preceding years that I had her, had a grande mal seizure at 2 AM.  The Vet's service had him return my call within 10 minutes but that was about the longest 10 minutes of my life.  He gave me his home number. I never used it but it was sure nice to know I had it.

During a cat's chronic viral illness a few years ago and after a week of hospitalization, my Vet sent him home expecting him not to make it more than a few more days.  He loaned me one of his medical books and gave me his personal email in case I had questions.  I did have a few and it was nice to be able to shoot a quick, short email at an odd hour since I didn't need immediate answers.  He wasn't in the day I returned his book but he was a bit surprised when I brought the cat in for his next annual exam.  I doubt that cat would have lived but for that book and his answers to my emails and I let him know how grateful I was.

On the flip side, my Shiba recently had surgery and I had a question about Tramadol/pain on Friday morning, 2 days post op.  I left a voice mail message and it wasn't returned until Monday.  I'm not too happy with him about that one.

I understand setting boundaries but I think Vets should be available or have another Vet available for minor stuff, like post op/procedure too or not schedule those just before "unavailable" times.

PJBoosinger January 15th, 2009 12:20:30 PM

One reason I'm happy the polace I go to now is a combo regular vet/ER service is coordination of care. I haven't needed to call a vet off hours in a very long time. If the regular vet needed to be consulted with, the ER vet could call them. Or I could ask them to call her. But, I haven't been in an ER situation recently where I didn't trust what the ER vet was telling me and therefore needed an immediate second opinion from the regular vet. I might feel differently if that situation arose. The emergency situations I've been in recently, I've felt I could "Keep my own counsel" on the way forward or else didn't think the reg vet would tell me anything different than the ER vet.

OTOH, if my regular vet offered her home phone, I'd take it, and I'd probably use it to ask for advice, especially in situations where I was UNSURE whether it was an emergency or not (e.g., my cat has vomited her food twice today. Otherwise she seems ok. Do I just keep watch, or take her in?) It would therefore be important to establish specific ground rules about when she was willing to be contacted and when not.

Stefani January 15th, 2009 12:26:55 PM

I don't know how my equine vet does it.  Her work number is her cell phone.  She often doesn't answer (is working) but will return messages promptly, even off hours, even when she's not on call.  The equine vets locally take turns being on call after hours/weekends/holidays, but in some cases she ASKS me to go ahead and call her later in the evening or on a weekend to let her know how a horse is doing, and to give me further instructions based on changes in the horse's condition. Sometimes I know she ends up working all night, even when she's not on call, because the on call vet is overwhelmed with emergencies.

That's NUTS.   Really.  I try to let her know how much I appreciate it, and I sing her praises to everyone, but I don't think any of her clients can possibly be grateful ENOUGH for the amount that we intrude in her life. 

I also can't imagine a small animal vet having to cope with that sort of thing, considering that emergency clinics are available.  Hey, my local emergency clinic is willing to tell me if something is an emergency, and if they think it can wait (just last Friday, in fact, they told me they didn't think I needed to come in for something).  That's what they DO.  They charge more, sure, but it's because you have an emergency, and emergencies need extra care.  It's a privilege to get emergency care in off hours, and one that people should indeed pay for.

Galadriel January 15th, 2009 12:27:55 PM

PS: I miss the days when one's GP expected patients to call before heading to the ER so the GP could meet you at ER and was hurt/offended if you didn't make that call!  I miss house calls from M.D.s and Vets!  I think I'm getting old.

PJBoosinger January 15th, 2009 12:31:49 PM

Give out your email address instead.  As a teacher, I do not give out my phone number to students, but they all have my email address and I check that frequently.  One of my own (human) doctors was hard to reach at his office phone, so he gave me his email instead and would quickly reply and squeeze me into his schedule within 24 hours if I needed it.  The difference between phone and email is that you only read email on your own terms, you're not slaved to whenever the phone rings. 

zandperl January 15th, 2009 12:32:19 PM

Now I'm curious.  How many Vets work closely with nearby emergency Vet centers and in what capacity?  How many Vets provide an information sheet during the first visit with office hours, staff availability, a list of nearby emergency centers?  Why aren't Vets better networking together to handle weekend/vacation/on call/after hour/emergencies/etc.?

My Vets charge more than my M.D.s do to self pay patients.  (FYI, several of the M.D.s I use have stopped taking insurance altogether so I know the lower price isn't related to them making up the difference with insured patients.)  JIMO, if one does that, then it isn't unreasonable for clients to expect the same level of care.

PJBoosinger January 15th, 2009 12:50:33 PM

Re: "My Vets charge more than my M.D.s do to self pay patients."

That's an interesting point. When I look at the cost billed to my insurance co for bloodwork, visits, etc. -- and then compare it with the "negotiated" amount the insurance pays, the vet care is at least as expensive as my healthcare. For example, an office visit is about the same (my insurance paid $66 for a recent office visit (negotiate amount), and my cats' last visit was $65.) But the labwork was reimbursed at $30 by my insurance co, and I paid $120-something for my cats.

Granted, it's not the same labwork, but still . . .

Thanks for the comment that caused me to take a look at that comparison. It's very interesting and you are right, provides a good reason why vet clients should be able to expect service on a par with human medicine.

The other very important point being the out of pocket costs being so much higher for vet care. It woudl be great if our employers subsidized pet insurance. That woudl DEFINITELY tip the balance in favor of getting insurance.

Stefani January 15th, 2009 01:32:21 PM

I had my vet give me his private line once because of a spay where my cat's body rejected the stitches. He said I could call if I was having problems flushing the area, if it got worse or any general problems. I thankfully didn't have to use it and after the week was up I tucked it away. A while later I had an emergency with my ferret and his clinic wasn't the emergency clinic, I called it and got some advice to tide me over until morning. (Turns out the "emergency" wasn't as bad and could wait) After that I tossed the number.

It gave me piece of mind but I didn't want someone else in the household finding it and calling it for a mundane reason.

However if he had of said that he was busy, not a good time to call, etc., I would have gladly understand I just appreciated that he offered.

Katrina January 15th, 2009 01:52:44 PM

I have my numbers forwarded to whatever phone I desire. In the past I used live operators for any emergencies. They screened the calls or gave answers. Today, I am pretty accessable but am waiting for a grandcentral.com number to manage things for the future. You might check out that option.

I think the second cell idea is a good one but this option might be better because you can give out the number and then change where it rings.

Find me blogging at Ark Animals

Ark Lady January 15th, 2009 01:55:02 PM

Tough call, (no pun intended)  My primary vet is for one reason (a big one) my primary vet because I do have an afterhours number to call - we have two 24 ER clinics in a 100 mile radius and I wouldn't take a dead dog to either.  They are horrible for a multitude of reasons.   My primary vet is well aware of my feelings , we have had very direct communication about after hour calls and I think I am good about not abusing it I have called him maybe once or twice in the last year and half after hours (c-section and bloat ER's) which the c-section I knew was needed at 2 am but I managed the situation till 6am to wake him and he knew the day before that labor had onset so he wasn't surprised.

I have another vet closer to me who I really like but they have no after hours, no phone numbers no nothing so I use him for little stuff once in a while but because he is not willing to make that level of committment I can't committ to him - as a breeder I feel I have to have a close relationship with my vet.  Not sure if that really makes me different than the regular pet owner but hey don't we all think we are special ?

As a breeder and kennel owner, I too get tons of afterhour phone calls and I have gotten better in the last year about my own boundaries especially since I did as previous poster recommended got a second number!  I clearly state and update almost daily my answering message so callers know exactly when they can expect me to return their call or not.  The 5 minutes or less it takes to manage that and the extra $30 for the cell line has been a good investment for my time and sanity ;)

LC January 15th, 2009 02:47:25 PM

"You don't really care about animals" That phrase is the lowest blow a vet can get, and even though we and anyone important to us knows how rediculous it is, it still smarts when we hear it, regardless of the source. It took me about 20 years of taking every call from anyone capable of dialing a telephone to realize I had to set boundaries or I would not be able to continue. About 95% of my calls were from people I had never seen before(did not use a vet, did not use me or was here on vacation) and would never see again. It was not a practice builder. Most of the emergencies from the locals were the direct result of their negligence (no vaccinations, no heartworm prevention, free roaming et). I frequently got stiffed by these folks as well. I still list my home phone as my emergency #. Voicemail and caller ID are wonderful things. Although it is 75 miles away, there is an emergency clinic that can see patients that just cannot make it until the morning or just answer questions. The standard of care requires us to do it right or not at all. I would much have someone be miffed because they had to travel, than be miffed because I made a mistake from lack of sleep. I just cannot stay up all nite seeing emergencies and still be my best for my daytime clients. At 53, I feel the health effects from lack of sleep much more than a few years ago.

Hobson January 15th, 2009 03:51:18 PM

For the above rediculous scenerio? It is rude & uncalled for, I would wonder if the ex-client was perhaps a bit "tipsy".

Just returning as a medical "proxy", from the #1 hospital in the country (according to USA, Time, etc.),that reputably has the "cream of the crop" world-wide, I was taken aback when the surgeon gave me his cell phone# to pass along to his patient. He directed the reasons for use & politely asked for the privelege not to be abused.

Surely, he will have no regrets.

Barbara Albright/NH advocate for ethical vet care

Pocket's Story from NH January 15th, 2009 03:55:40 PM

PJBoosinger: My GP got angry with me over one such ER scenario. She flipped out at me because I didn't call her when I went in with acute abdominal pain last year. I explained that in our field it's very different. But it DID make me think...

Dr. Patty Khuly January 15th, 2009 03:56:04 PM

My regular vet gave me, with great trepidation, his private number once. I never used it. He in fact called me the next morning to make sure everything was OK! (Bitch delivered OK in spite of being a bulldog and it being New Years Eve!) When I asked him if I should toss it out, he said I was welcome to keep it as I seemed to be unlikely to call him for silly reasons. Ten years later I have never used it. 

I have the e-mail contacts for my regular vet and an orthopedic/neurologic surgeon whom I'd love to nominate for sainthood. The only time I have used my veterinarians e-mail was to let him know his property was spared by the local wildfires. I've used the surgeon's e-mail twice, once when a five year old bulldog came in unable to lift his foot and he shoe-horned me in to repair Teller's ruptured digital extensor tendon (he had foot drop because the damaged tendon could not slide under a ligament in his knee to lift the foot) And once to ask his opinion of a digital recording of a rescue dog who had been dropped as a puppy and suffered bilateral, severe angular deformities of both fronts. He not only wrote back but treated the dog at essentially cost for rescue.

He told me I could keep his info so long as I kept bringing him interesting cases. :-)

JenniferJ January 15th, 2009 05:36:42 PM

I have given out my number on only a couple occasions in about 6 years to clients whom I had a very good relationship with and wouldn't abuse it. I would say I held them in the same regards that I would have my close friends and family....and you know they call occasionally and I don't mind that!! After all I had a wise person once tell me that we choose our professions and we know what comes with that. However, I don't think that requires that I be on call for 24 hours a day 7 days a week. That is why I practice with other vets, so they can take the call when I am not in the office.

One idea - I don't remember anyone commenting on - there are only a 3 emergency centers in our area and I would say that with two at least I have a good working relationship with them. They have my home number and cell, and if one of my clients call or come in they can contact me if needed. They can first advise patient if they can handle that and if not they can call me. I can get information from them and either direct them what I would relay or I can choose to call the client back. But they have a bit more discretion when calling and know what to ask client so they can relay to me. This has seemed to work well because I have only gotten a few calls from them - otherwise they handle it till I am back in office next day or two!!

If people gripe then I usually just kindly say that you probably don't get to call your doctor at 2 in the morning; that is what ER's are for. Sure it sucks to pay a bit more but why not look at it from the perspective that 'thank god that there is someone there at all' I too have had clients who have had bad experiences either with price, personality of ER vet and on occasion treatment. Most of the time it is that the ER tends to overdue it.....well if they hadn't done enough and you pet died you would still be mad and with a dead pet. Stand up for yourself and have them explain what truely needs to be done and what can get you by until you can get back to your vet. That way maybe your experience won't be so bad and your vet can get some sleep!!

J.C. January 15th, 2009 05:43:45 PM

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Some years ago, my own GP gave me her home phone number and told me to feel free to call “anytime” if I had any questions or what not. I appreciated the gesture, but would have felt way too awkward to ever actually do it.

I have no idea what my vet’s cell number is. Even if I had it, I probably wouldn’t be comfortable using it.. I’d be too worried about inadvertent abuse. The one genuinely major after hours emergency we’ve had occurred at two in the morning… and I certainly wouldn’t have called her then, not when there are two emergency clinics within fifteen minutes of my house (one of which already has a lengthy file on said cat). The clinic knows her well, and if they felt there were reason to make contact, I suspect they probably would. Better their discretion than mine!

J.C.- That's exactly how I view it. I can remember growing up in a relatively rural area where there were no emergency practices. When I was twelve, my rabbit had an emergency over the weekend. I called every practice in the phone book- twice. Of those that were open, none would see him.. the exotic vets were all off for the weekend. The best I could get was an appointment first thing Monday morning. I watched in horror as my best friend deteriorated before my eyes. I had never seen an animal in such obvious pain before, and it killed me to watch him suffer. He never made it to the Monday appointment. Perhaps they couldn't have saved him anyway.. but at the very least, we could have opted for humane euthanasia.

As such, I will never, ever, ever complain about the price of emergency services or the frustration of spending three hours sitting in a cramped waiting room after midnight. (Not genuinely, anyway.) Because I know what the alternative is, and I'm glad neither I nor my pets will ever have to experience it again.

Ramen Connoisseur January 15th, 2009 06:30:54 PM

Sorry about all that extraneous junk at the top of the above post.. forgot that pasting out of MS Word was a no-go. My bad!

Ramen Connoisseur January 15th, 2009 06:32:41 PM

I can relate to not wanting to deal with  nonsense calls when you're off.. I find it incredible how people can be so self absorbed.. that nobody exists besides themselves..

I have to admit our vets are good guys.. My Brittney passed away at my mom's at 11 pm,  while I was at a conference.. My brother ran over, called the vet, and one of them met him there to take the dog..  My brother ran into a problem and needed meds for his dog, and they left it at the back door.. I called at 5 am. with Socks having respiratory difficulty, and was called back within 1/2 hour.. Okay, you would think that it's because they've been our vets for the past forty years, but my lab tech called, with her dog having Parvo, and one of them met her there..  I don't know why, as they are always busy, even in this economy, and they are in six days a weeek.. Think I'll keep them.

barri January 15th, 2009 08:13:50 PM

I'm lucky in that my regular clinic just happens to be a 24/7/365 operation, so my emergencies always go to my regular clinic... while it means I get the emergency vet, at least it also means I pay my regular fees because I'm a client, they have my full records there available to them, and follow up/hospitalization is so much easier.

That being said, I can completely understand the hesitation and yet the drive to give out your personal information.  I know that my clients should have to come in during store hours while I am scheduled if they want to see me, but a few of them have particularly difficult dogs or cats at home, and are ever so nice, and I feel somewhat personally responsible for them.  And so, against my better judgement, I give out my email and telephone information.

For the most part, things go smoothly, but as you pointed out, you get the odd nut job.  Calling me on a twice weekly basis to ask questions that could have been posed via email or during my regular hours is a personal pet peeve.  I don't get too many late night calls, but they generally end with me saying "get to the vet, fool!"  After all, if it's important enough you felt the need to wake me up at 2 am, it's important enough to warm the car up and drive to the ER.

I know I shouldn't give out my personal home number, and it certainly is above my pay grade to be responding to store clients emails on my personal time, but it's my love for what I do that makes me go the extra mile... and I suspect you have the same motivation.  Unfortunately/fortunately, I don't think either of us are going to correct that any time soon.  :O)

Kim January 15th, 2009 09:15:38 PM

I work in an emergency hospital. Most of the area daytime practices forward their phones to us after hours. We do sometimes get calls from people that refuse to speak with us. They only want their normal vet. We have a file on our computers containing all the vets who refer to us and what their preferences are on being contacted. So if Mrs. Smith calls us demanding to speak to Dr. Jones from Happy Tails Vet Clinc, I can look him up in our computer and see that he will accept calls until 1AM, or he prefers not to be called at all, and so on and so forth. Then *I* can call the doc and ask him to call the client. This makes everyone happy. The client usually gets to talk to their vet and the vet keeps his privacy.

Robyn January 16th, 2009 01:45:32 AM

Stefani, I do know that one of the reasons that Vets have to charge more than human docs is the evolution of practices.  Way back when, M.D.s were mostly solo, stand alone practices.  Group practices and specialty centers come mostly from the extraordinary costs of equipment which is expensive to maintain AND requires additional space and staff.  With Vets offering many of the same services as human docs, I suspect they'll have to evolve to a similar structure eventually as well (and I see some of it happening already).  In the meantime, they should probably focus on efficiency issues.  Most businesses and especially professionals tend to be inefficient in their business practices.  The fundamentals of business usually aren't taught in professional schools.  Most of the people I went to law school with had liberal arts or scientific undergrad degrees; nothing there or in law school taught them even how to get office supplies and control them (one of the big loss areas, a little like HeartGuard going out the back door).  They were cherries to be picked by every business service and gadget provider the day they graduated and landed on every sales persons target list.

MS Word gobblety gook.  I usually NEED my spell checker these days.  Here's the easiest fix for this I could find.  Draft in Word; copy and paste to Notepad; copy and paste from Notepad to blog.  Alternately, draft here and copy/paste to Word for spellcheck then manually fix the errors here.

PJBoosinger January 16th, 2009 02:43:59 AM

I'm a veterinarian in Ireland - with a local emergency clinic that takes our calls. I do occasionally give my mobile (cell) number to clients - but always with a proviso: I won't always be able to answer, and I'd be MUCH happier to work with text messages than with voice calls. I find that this works very well - people respect my privacy, and my lack of availability on occasions, but it allows me to offer them the personal service that I want to give. Examples include: communicating about ongoing seriously ill animals, where a brief update is all that is needed; communicating to arrange the timing of emotionally upsetting appointments like euthanasia where a voice call would be more upsetting for the owner to make; communicating about lab results.

I know that Irish people are particularly enthusiastic "texters", and I'm not sure if this way of using cell phones has taken off in other countries in the same way. I certainly find it a very useful way of keeping in touch with people who need that extra bit of support.

Pete Wedderburn January 16th, 2009 06:02:19 AM

Love the texting idea, Pete. Too bad the only ones in serious text mode here are the young'uns and the seriously wired. I prefer text, personally, but when even my mom's cel won't accept my texts it can be a bit of a hassle.

Dr. Patty Khuly January 16th, 2009 08:00:29 AM

I have my vet's number. I wouldn't call it unless it was a serious emergency that I felt I couldn't handle, or didn't know enough about it.

I called him once when I came home to find my cat had fallen off a shelf and didn't have use of his back legs. That is what I consider a serious emergency that I felt I couldn't handle.

I don't let my pets out, so that really does cut down on the type of emergencies that I've seen occur. We try to eliminate things here that might cause a problem before there is one. And I keep a good amount of supplies on hand such as IV fluids, antibiotics etc....and after many years on a rescue squad, and a good medical backgound, I don't give into panic too often, though if I am to panic, it is over the pets.

It would have to be something catastrophic for me to call in the middle of the night, much less to a vet I no longer used. I wouldn't allow one nut job change your usual habits.

http://lorrim-fip.blogspot.com/

LorriM January 16th, 2009 08:53:18 AM

i do have my vets emergency number. i have called her 2-3 times in 6 years. once i called and she was at a funeral and i didnt know it. she didnt tell me- her tech did when i saw her a few days later. i felt bad and apologized but she told me that it was ok. i was frantic so it was a good thing for me but still its not all about me and my cat. anyway i try not to abuse it and with a cat with hcm/asthma i think i do pretty good considering i flip everytime my cat sneezes it seems:) i do belong to a few cat groups and this lady got mad at her vet because they would not prescribe predisone for her cat over the phone until the cat was seen for a re-check. it had been over a year since this cat last seen the vet and they wanted to see her before they gave this med again. the lady was a bit upset and i didnt get it and told her so. how could you give your pet a medicine that is used daily and not get the pet checked out at least yearly. i take my cat in twice a year and thats if all is well.

katy January 16th, 2009 09:40:17 AM

I don't think you mentioned Dr. K if you have also explained to your clients that afterhour services do have fee's above normal ?  On the rare occassion that I have had to contact and utilize my vet's services afterhours I have paid the afterhours fee GLADLY !  I think he even charges for afterhour phone consultations but he has never charged me that only when I have to meet him at the clinic I think he saves the afterhour consultation charges for those who abuse it although I would be happy to pay it - so perhaps giving the number out but explaining afterhour consultations are $45 or whatever fee might make people less likely to abuse it but call when needed ?

LC January 16th, 2009 10:30:20 AM

Yes, I have my vet's home and/or cell phone numbers, and even so, if I have an emergency, I call their designated ER and ask them to contact her and let her know I'm coming in or what my issue is. But I've known her for years and years, and mostly use her number for non-professional reasons -- seeing if she'll be at a dog show, etc. I have the private numbers of many vets because I work with them, and I would never abuse that.

Frankly, it's rare that I NEED my vet for an emergency... I usually need the services of a vet hospital. And if we need her input or some background on a complicated case, THEY call her, not me.

Christie Keith January 16th, 2009 04:32:36 PM

“Oh, is it because you’re not being paid? You’re just like everyone else out here. You don’t really care about animals.”

I have heard that same accusation more than once. And so far I have avoided the temptation to say, "No, actually it is becasue you are a frickin' nut case. . . .", but it is very tempting.

Marcy LaHart, Esq, January 16th, 2009 05:49:24 PM

I'm a vet tech, not a vet, but I have the same sort of thing happen to me.  My family doesn't have a land line, just cells.  I often get calls from people who know what I do, with questions about their pets.  How did they get my number?  They called my husband's cell, which is his work number, and is on his business cards (and in our church's phone list), and he gave it to them.  Usually I don't mind, but the occasional middle of the night call is irksome.  I was sick in bed, literally, recently, and about midnight someone called to ask how do you know if your dog is dead?  She wanted me to come over and check!  I told her how to check for a corneal reflex, told her the dog was dead, I was very sorry, no I didn't know why, and could I go back to bed since standing made me dizzy?  She did later send me a nice card apologizing!

sassy January 16th, 2009 08:26:32 PM

"I don't give into panic too often, though if I am to panic, it is over the pets"  DITTO

I can handle human blood, bones, etc., etc. but my brain seizes up when one of the pets is suddenly injured or ill.  M.D.s used to charge for phone consults but I don't think any Vet ever charged me for one.  When my son was little, I was thrilled to be able to call and get advice for a $15 charge; efficient for us both but did deter one from dialing over just any little thing knowing there would be a bill in the mail.  I know some (not all but some) of my panic reaction is not knowing whether I'll be able to get a Vet 24/7 like I know I can with an M.D. at ER.  (I haven't used a Vet ER in years because so many of them aren't actually staffed at night and I've heard too many stories of people going to them only to wait while they try to locate an available Vet to come in.)

PJBoosinger January 16th, 2009 10:54:19 PM

I've been given non-office phone numbers by human physicians – never used them. It never occurred to me that they might be real private numbers. I always assumed that it was a separate line for emergency patient calls that either rang into a practice-dedicated cell phone or a practice-dedicated land line in a home office. And I'd bet money that's true. (Too many nut jobs out there for it to not be true.)

Thus, I think you need to a.) get a separate line, b.) let every single call on that line go to VM so you can decide which call(s) deserve your attention and c.) screen the people you give your digits to better. (Although if you do A and B, my guess is you won't have to do as much of C.) Explain that the call will go to VM. Keep your outgoing VM updated so they know your status. Communication is a beautiful thing. CYA'ing is a beautiful thing.

And boundaries are a beautiful thing. People only run over them if you let them. :-)

Deanna January 17th, 2009 09:47:57 AM

Imagine my surprised one day a few years ago, when I asked my vet if she could come out and do a home visit to rabies-vaccinate the cats in my small cat rescue facility and she said "Sure, give me a call at home." I said, tentative, "I don't have your home number." And she said to me, "Not a problem, I'm in the book." And there she was.

Susan January 17th, 2009 01:39:04 PM

"That's an interesting point. When I look at the cost billed to my insurance co for bloodwork, visits, etc. -- and then compare it with the "negotiated" amount the insurance pays, the vet care is at least as expensive as my healthcare. For example, an office visit is about the same (my insurance paid $66 for a recent office visit (negotiate amount), and my cats' last visit was $65.) But the labwork was reimbursed at $30 by my insurance co, and I paid $120-something for my cats.

Granted, it's not the same labwork, but still . . ."

I think a big part of the difference in costs for labwork is simply volume- as often as we send out bloodwork for cats and dogs, it must pale in comparison to the amount of labwork done on humans. Human medicine will always win by volume, and the more volume you have (whether it's labwork, drugs in the pharmacy, MRIs, whatever), the cheaper it gets.

You also see much larger discrepencies between human and animal medicine the more specialized a procedure gets. It might cost you $5000 to have a board-certified surgeon perform a TPLO on your dog. I know a human that had his ruptured ACL repaired for $22,000. My vet will shoot and interpret a radiograph for $50, but my own radiographs were taken for $200 and intepreted for another $200. I think vet med has a much lower ceiling on the cost of procedures vs human medicine, since cost is so often a determining factor in deciding a treatment plan for an animal.

Megan January 17th, 2009 02:26:34 PM

I used to work in small animal practice in the UK, and had to use my personal phone as the on-call contact number. Surprisingly few clients ever abused this, and we covered about 7 clinics in total when on call, but I really didn't appreciate being called to a friend's parents' sick budgerigar at 11pm on my night off when they discovered what it would cost to take it to the on-call practice!

Goldfish January 31st, 2009 04:42:37 PM

I'm a large animal veterinarian, and my cell phone is my work phone number.

I no longer answer my phone.  If a client calls and hangs up without leaving a message (I've had people do this 5-6 times in a row within a fifteen minute period), I will neither answer the phone nor call the number.  Actually, if a client pulls that stunt, I'll never answer that client's call again.  Ever.

This weekend, a client called me at 7:20 AM Easter morning to schedule an appointment for dentistry ("I know it's Easter, but my horse has been losing weight for the last month or so...").  I once had a client call me at 1:00 AM with a colic that had been brewing since 6:00 PM.  I've told clients that the best time to reach me is before 10:00 AM (when I start appointments) only to have the phone ring at 10:10 AM.

I'm currently applying for a residency that will lead to a job outside clinical practice, in private industry.  Despite my efforts to manage the situation, I am burned out and currently hate my job.  Actually, I love animals, and I like veterinary medicine.  But I don't like the selfish, rude behavior of many of my clients, and clients are part of the package.  It isn't possible to pay me enough to continue to do this job long term.

whodunit April 14th, 2009 09:51:38 PM

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