How about homemade cookies at Christmas? Those seemed to go over well this past December! :) Good list, I agree.

Shasta January 23rd, 2009 09:20:07 AM

I found this an interesting post. I recently had a terrible experience with the practice owner where I take my dogs. One of my dogs has been having periodic GI distress for the past year. We have done blood work and nothing conclusive has shown up. I wanted to have additional blood work done and my usual vet was not available. I feed my dogs raw. When the practice owner heard this he stopped listening to a word I said and started lecturing. It was very uncomfortable. Especially since I am an educated owner. In this instance the other thing he did which turned me off was suggest my dog had Addison’s without educating me as to why this would be a possibility. I have since read a routable discussion funded by Novartis and I can see where he was coming from. However he did not take the time to educate me about why he thought it was a possibility. I will NEVER see him again. I plan to continue to see my regular vet who I like a lot and feel is very open minded. I DID consider switching practices completely. Based on your post (and number 8 in particular), you think it would be worthwhile to write a letter to him expressing my thoughts?

Julie January 23rd, 2009 09:21:11 AM

One that always gets me is when the vet or tech calls and leaves a lengthy voicemail message, then the owner calls back and hasn't bothered listening to the message. When we leave a message, listen to it! Then you have time to digest the information, come up with questions, and *then* call back. Sometimes we don't even need a call back, like if we're just calling to tell you that your prescription is ready to be picked up. On slow days, it isn't a big deal, but when our receptionist is juggling three phone lines plus a line of clients to check in or out, those unnecessary phone calls can send us over the edge.

Megan January 23rd, 2009 10:31:21 AM

Megan,

That happens all the time at the all cat practice I work at, too. How I respond to this, is to say the doctor would be more than happy to return their call, but they are with a client or in surgery or on another line etc and ask them to listen to their voicemail message so that when the doctor calls back, they will have more information in case they have further questions. And I ask them to call back and let me/us know if the info in the message answered their questions and if not, then I post a message on the doctors message board to return their call. 

I like all the top 10 questions for clients to ask, too. I think an educated, informed client is the best kind and if they come in with a written list of questions, or ask for a demo on something (anything from nail trimming to an insulin demo, I know they are wanting to take the best care of their cat and that pleases me. 

I also breed Cornish Rex cats and in many ways it feels like an extension of my job as a vet tech. I have over 300 bookmarked sites on cat health, behavior, art, humor etc and enjoy researching something I see at work or trying to answer a question from one of the people who has a cat with me (such as "Are those little dessicant packets found in vitamins etc) toxic...look that up, it may surprise you). 

Teri and the cats of Furrydance

 

 

Teri and the cats of Furrydance January 23rd, 2009 11:57:52 AM

Julie: As to offering this vet contructive criticism...I don't think it'll go over well.. But it's worth a try. I hate to back-pedal on what seems like a wonderful suggestion (from my POV), but not all human beings can take the heat they rightfully deserve.

Nonetheless, a diplomatically worded letter may help: "I love your practice and I'm forever a loyal client, but...I'm concerned that Dr. X's limited/conservative/less than open-minded views on Y and Z may lose sight of what I offer as a client: responsible, careful and thoughtful pet ownership."

Try it. It never hurts as long as it's about your concern for your pet. Moreover, if the receptionists read all mail first (as happens in our practice), you'll likely find that you'll gain not-so-grudging respect from their camp. And that's always a good thing. (The gatekeepers rule.)

Dr. Patty Khuly January 23rd, 2009 12:47:06 PM

I can agree with everything except part of #2. I am a very educated dog owner, whose dogs do MUCH better if I restrain them (and I know how to do so properly) and stay with them at all times. My own vet accepts this with no problem, even allowing me to be with them for x-rays (I wear all the right stuff), while anesthesia is induced, and as they wake up. As a result, my dogs are calm and well behaved at the vet's, which they would not be were I not there.

I have had to fight for the right to stay with my dogs with specialists and emergency clinics. Some are willing to work with me, especially since my own vet will vouch for my behavior (and my dogs' need for me to be there); others insist on sticking to their rigid rules despite the fact that it's not in my dogs' best interests To me, this signals that they care less about my pets than they do about their rules, making it impossible for me to trust them as a vet.

If a vet insists on letting one of their techs restrain my dog while I'm there, I will go along with it, though my dogs usually end up being afraid of going back to that clinic after this has happened. But I've made a decision that I will not see a vet who will not allow me to stay with my dog, even if it means they can't see a specialist. Last year, I drove 2 1/2 hours each way, twice, to see a specialist who would allow me to stay with my dog during a procedure instead of the one that was only 1 hour away, but who wouldn't let me stay.

I realize that not all clients know enough to be allowed this privilege, and not all dogs require it, but I think that vets owe it to their clients (human and animal) to be willing to bend their own rules when it's what's best for the pet.

Mary Straus January 23rd, 2009 01:30:38 PM

Mary: I'm not a proponent of the we-MUST-restrain-your-pet camp. But it IS a common policy for legal reasons.  (We are responsible for your injuries should your pet harm you.) And there are plenty of times when I refuse a client this privilege. But if it's a client and a pet I know well to do better in tandem, I'll easily allow it. It should be my prerogative to make this decision, however. After all, I'm the one footing the bill if things go really wrong.

Dr. Patty Khuly January 23rd, 2009 02:21:42 PM

I second Dr. K re: pet restraint - human safety is more important than your pet's comfort or safety, and the clinics who are unwilling to work with you may not be disregarding your pet's comfort, just asserting that their policies are in place to protect the hospital and staff and those policies trump your preferences. We have lots of clients who want to do the same - I can understand where they are coming from, but it usually doesn't fly. And in a lot of those cases, it opens up discussion about behavioral problems such as separation anxiety or improper socialization, which we can then attempt to manage and treat (not implying anything about your pets, Mary - it's obvious you do what's best for them - just sharing my experiences, please don't take offense). I'd like to add to Dr. K's list the mistake of telling the staff one story and telling the vet another, or vice versa. That's particularly frustrating, and counterproductive, especially when it relates to your pet's medical history. I don't know why some clients do this, but they do, and it immediately raises a "red flag", if you will. The support staff are there to help them and their pets, too - don't take advantage and treat them with respect (gatekeeper rule).

anna January 23rd, 2009 03:52:14 PM

Excellent top 10, what about :

Consultations verse routine exams:

scheduling a consultation with your vet when you want to discuss diet or other issues that can take considerable time -

Recently I called ahead to schedule a "consultation" with a vet I don't use too often but wanted a fresh set of eyes on this case and since I wanted to talk about my dog who has E.Canis (very long story) I called ahead told them what it was I wanted to talk to the doc about, I also offered to bring copies of previous lab work in before appt.  Couple days later arrived at my appointment with my file to greet a very excited doc ?  He was grinning from ear to ear, I asked why he was so happy to see my old girl with her chronic e.canis and he said no one has ever called ahead with the reason they were coming in and it allowed him the time to do a little research and review my paperwork so he was anxious to ask ME questions and meet her.   Although we didn't make any huge break thru's I did enjoy the research and time with him and he did have some new ideas to try.

How about if your bringing in multiple pets you find a babysitter for the toddler(s) ?  not to sound rude, but I have seen too many Mom's in the waiting room trying to keep 2 dogs a cat and 3 children under control (unsuccessfully) - I know this isn't feasible for all but sometimes I think parents just don't think about maybe scheduling the vet appt. when little joey is in school or at grandma's maybe?

I also have a question about multi doctor practices - my regular vet has other docs there but I only see him, now this other clinic I go to once in awhile has 4 docs - I just by chance have seen primarily one of them, he is great but the other day I had to go in for rabies vax on a dog and when I scheduled it I said just give me whoever, so I saw a diff doc - well the other doc saw me said hi and then at the end of my appt. came in the room after the other doc left and asked if everything was okay kinda implying why I didn't see him ?  honestly didn't want to bother him with something so routine (not that I take vax lightly) - So, if you are a client of one is it disrespectful to see another ?  I am glad he said something to me I would of hated for him to feel disrespected or feel that I didn't want to see him?

what do you think ?

LC January 23rd, 2009 05:40:42 PM

Shasta said "How about homemade cookies at Christmas?"   I agree, my vet's are on my christmas list every year !  I had an emergency appt a few weeks ago they squeezed me in so a few days later I delivered hot Mocha's a few minutes after opening for all the front end in girls :)  Personally, I think its really important to keep the front end and techs happy - so I do abit more stuff like that for them then I do my vet ;)

LC January 23rd, 2009 05:47:28 PM

I think LC's comment about children being there is good, and wanted to add that not only is it not fair to that mother's pet to have the (often difficult to control) children there - because she can't focus on positive interaction with vet and staff, making a less desirable outcome for the pet a big likelihood. And it's not fair to other pets and clients in the waiting room, or to the staff, who often feel unable to do much about the situation, because the mom is usually stressed and embarrassed and apt to not respond well to even the nicest of comments.

Tying in to the possible legal issues of having staff restrain pets, just yesterday I was holding a very nice dog who's normally fine with most things we do. However, the mom had brought her 11 yr. old boy, who was trying to "help his doggy be brave" by petting the dog's head. The vet really bends over backwards to be nice to kids in the room, so he almost never says anything. I, of course, had been trying to maneuver the dog's mouth away from the child as the exam progressed, as we were going to do the thermometer and anal sac squeezing, and get a not happy look from the mom when I moved the dog out of the child's reach. I ended up saying "I'm sorry, but Frankie's likely to not be so happy in a minute, and I don't want him to get upset with you." The mom said, "Frankie's fine with him" and pulls the dog forward so her son can keep petting him and immediately follows that with "Oo, you don't like that, do ya, Frankie?" as the thermometer went in and the dog tried to sit down. Then the squeeze, and the boy tries to pet the dog and Frankie lifts his lip, which 'shocks' her. I totally agree with having clients in the room at all times (and I'm okay with the few who can hold their pet better than I can because of temperment issues), but please, make your kids step back from the table and stand or sit, quietly, while the appoinment progresses.

KateH January 23rd, 2009 07:53:36 PM

I, too, second the "children" issue. Most of us at my hospital are parents. We love kids. We have vet-themed coloring books and do our best to keep them entertained while taking the opportunity to teach them about what we do and how to better cre for their pets.

But...kids often want to stay at the front of their pets like KateH described. This is always tricky and we always tell them to step back, explaining how their pets can be scared into oing things they would never do at home. Parents can get offended and some kids will feel unduly chastized (no one likes that). That's why I explain the issue before I begin my exam.

Then there's the clients who thinks it's OK to bring her three kids and their friends to the vet's. Our waiting room is small. The kids can be noisy, scaring all the pets more than they already are. And this usually happens on a Saturday when the waiting room is packed already. Where's the common sense?

Dr. Patty Khuly January 24th, 2009 07:04:17 AM

LC: I'm never offended. Perhaps that's because I've spent my entire career at this practice playing third fiddle to two popular docs.

One client did completely "defect," however. Turns out there was a misunderstanding at the root of the problem.

I'm still not sure how to address this since she was horribly offended by something I said. Ironically, it was nothing about her dog per se--it was to do with her wanting the other vet to see him for a second opinion. She thought I said something sarcastic about her decision to do so--when I was simply trying to set her at ease about her seeking another set of eyes. Sigh. Communication can get messy sometimes.

Dr. Patty Khuly January 24th, 2009 07:09:05 AM

How about:

"If you have multiple pets, know what you can reasonably manage by yourself, or bring a second animal-handler with you".

I generally have multiple pets for routine exams/vaccinations (I have 2 dogs, 4 cats); but I split them up, and would never consider taking them all at once. And if they have anything other than a routine visit, they go singly. I can easily manage my two large (well-behaved) dogs, and have once gone with as many as 3 cat-carriers, but would never, ever consider taking them all at once. On my last routine well-dog exam visit, a woman had 4 (!!) somewhat rambuctious Yorkies and an unrestrained cat in her arms. In a waiting room full of other anxious, stressed pets, I felt it was disaster waiting to happen, so I let the receptionist know that I would be waiting outside with my dogs, and to just call me in when they were ready for my appointments. As someone who has had a dog injured in a vet's waiting room by another out-of-control dog, I'm not willing to take chances on a waiting-room melee.

Shellie January 24th, 2009 08:22:53 AM

Shellie - I have seen similiar..maybe there should be a "Waiting Room Etiquette Guide for Clients" LOL, yesterday I saw client with toddler and a large american bulldog both were very bored and rambunctious they were done with appt waiting for check out so Mom put toddler in car seat back seat and bulldog in front passenger seat, they were parked in front but she stood inside yes she was watching the car and front desk waiting for check out but it made me really nervous to see dog and kid in car.....

LC January 24th, 2009 09:24:08 AM

LC: Here's a post on this, from my POV as a client. And here's one on a waiting room melée.

Dr. Patty Khuly January 24th, 2009 09:40:40 AM

Good list-I for one don't do number 8 and I should really-although I like my practice there are a few things I'd like to alter (like two entrance/exits-last time I was there the vet and an owner of an aggressive alsatian dragged the dog through the waiting room with it about a foot away from my face and the carrier box containing my rabbits-there's surely a better way of doing that one!).  You don't ask, you don't get.

It is difficult taking everything in-sometimes I phone up once I've got home to check., and I'm a vet student.  I often feel as if I'm being silly/wasting time but it's better than a mistake.

Sian January 24th, 2009 11:15:43 AM

Julie - I am a vet that feeds raw as I think the benefits vastly outweigh the risks. Many vets don't agree and that's their perogative, but no vet has the right to "lecture" you as though you are being foolish about this issue. Even as a vet I've been on the receiving end of that & it makes my blood boil !!! Many vets are also reluctant to recommend it for legal reasons (client may blame you if dog gets a bone obstruction, etc) and as well there can be an immense amount of peergroup pressure within a clinic not to recommend raw.(lost sales, but also old unchallenged ideas and pre-programmed ways of thinking). However, there are also many vets & clients now speaking out clearly about the benefits of raw. So, if a vet is goint to "lecture" you on this rather discuss pros & cons, personally I would go elsewhere.

Circe January 24th, 2009 02:59:01 PM

How about apologising when you're wrong? When my long time vet diagnosed untreatable cancer in my beloved basset, I went a little crazy. I didn.t yell, or call nasty names, or go to another doctor, but I was rude. After doctor put Ernie down with his usual kind grace, I gave him a bottle of wine and an apology note. I also, when I got the new dog, brought candy and wine to celebrate the 20 years my vet has been giving me good care.

barbara m January 24th, 2009 10:59:50 PM

I fully understand why most Vets aren't automatically inclined to let an owner restrain their pet.  All too many don't realize Fluffy may turn into Flying Freaky Cat or Fido into Death Dog.  Those Vets who've gotten to know me and my critters quickly realize I know them and am prepared and would prefer my hand, arm, leg, body to be in the line of fire than theirs (and that I know the risk I'm accepting) and that getting scratched, bit or kicked won't result in a lose crazed critter.  I no longer let my pets go off with someone I don't trust but, if I don't trust them, I won't be in their office either.  On the other hand, because of some bad experiences, I've home treated my animals quite a bit over the years and have gotten to know thieir evil ways. :)

Dr. K, Try a letter to that client "think we had a misunderstanding, wasn't my intent to offend, welcome discussion, you're always welcome back..." Many attorneys have jumped on the "never aplologize for anything" bandwagon.  I was always in the "word apologies carefully and be specific" but apologize if it's appropriate.  It DOES put one at some risk sometimes but, more often than not, it reduces risk because failing to apologize hurts feelings and polarizes people, making them less likely to forgive (let alone forget).  Even if the client doesn't respond, you've left the relationship on the best note that you can.

PJBoosinger January 25th, 2009 01:39:48 AM

where i work as a tech we'll let pet parents restrain their pets as long as they are able to, but i find that many people are not prepared for their pets' behavior in the new and stimulating environment that is the exam room. some people have never heard their dog growl... until i get near him with a thermometer. i definitely give the pet parents several chances to hold and comfort their pets, but if my, the pet's, the doc's, or the client's safety is at risk i have to take over. it's my job. it sounds like the people posting here who insist on restraining their own pets know what they're doing and that's great, it can be so helpful when a client steps up and helps you get the exam done better than you could by yourself, but i don't think i would ever be able to make the exception to allow a client into radiology or surgery. even our staff members aren't allowed into those areas until they have been properly trained. i had to take several classes before i could do radiographs (x-rays). surgery might be easier to let a client watch if they could stay right outside the door or something but it would be a major exception to the rule.

having clients remain there during procedures that are usually "drop-offs" also really lowers efficiency for the hospital as a whole, because instead of multi-tasking, a doctor and a nurse have to dedicate themselves to one pet for as long as it takes to run all the tests and everything that pet needs. the reason my hospital does as many drop-offs as we do is that when a pet needs several services that might take hours to do, it's simply not feasible to see each pet one at a time, from beginning to end. we need to be doing a physical exam on one while blood is running on another, and urine spinning on a third, etc... when a client refuses to trust us to take care of their pet, that cycle is interrupted and it can be frustrating.

lindsay January 25th, 2009 10:31:54 PM

A few years ago I tried to be helpful and assist in restraining my cat while he rec'd his shots at the vet. Whoooeeee, what a mistake. The cat let fly with a howl and flying claws; one which somehow managed to snake between two buttons of my blouse and leave a nasty scratch. In moments blood was visible through the fabric; the male vet was wide-eyed and making feeble dabbing motions at my stomach to staunch the bleeding which embarrassed us both (I had not anticipated exposing my winter white belly at the vet's office!). After things settled down, the vet apologized and said he broke his cardinal rule by letting me restrain my pet -- he then told a few stories about law suits filed by owners who had been injured by their own pet at the vet. Amazing. Sooo, I have forever more let the pros handle the restraining.

Laurie January 27th, 2009 01:59:52 AM

Julie, I'd like to play devil's advocate.  Your vet may have no idea whether or not you're an "educated pet owner."   If my doctor wanted to lecture me about a certain behavior he thought might be harmful, I would open my ears wide to his professional opinion.  After all, he is my family doctor and I trust him.  If you had such a relationship with this vet with whom you had a disagreement, it is your responsibility to tell him you disagree.  From his point of view, he was trained as a veterinarian, and it was a veterinarian's opinion you were seeking, right?  Doesn't mean you have to agree with him, not at all.  But trust your vet.  If the experience was a bad one, move on to a vet you trust.

I actually really like the idea of you writing him a letter.  But if you do, make it constructive.  Don't attack him, just let him know you're upset and what you would have appreciated.  Even if you never return to see him, I promise you he will think twice about how he made you feel.

-Toronto Vet

 

TorontoVet February 2nd, 2009 10:12:03 PM

Oh, sorry, Patty.  Excellent post.  Superb.

TorontoVet February 2nd, 2009 10:14:18 PM

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