Here’s a killer topic. It’s one veterinarians hate to handle due to its sensitive nature and accusatory undertones. And yet it’s worth raising, especially since someone else did so in a nationally syndicated pet health column last month.
The issue is this: Why should veterinarians charge their “faithful” clients for euthanasia? After all, it’s painful enough to have your pet euthanized. No one should be handed a bill on the cusp of such an event, right?
That’s the paraphrased version. And here’s the good doc’s response:
“In the days before dehumanizing, money-driven ways took precedence over common sympathy and decency, a vet would never charge a regular and responsible client for euthanasia. Now the service is usually tacked onto a body disposal or cremation fee, the latter being reasonable. But as a business courtesy, if not on the grounds of professional etiquette and ethics, I think veterinarians should not charge their faithful clients one dime for euthanasia.
There are many overhead expenses when running any good veterinary clinic or hospital, but some loss of revenue regarding the euthanizing of one's animal patients would pay off in other ways. Imposing a bill for services during a time of intense grief and devastating loss seems impersonal and demeaning. Better to at least send the bill later, after a sympathy card.”
That, courtesy of Dr. Michael W. Fox, the veterinarian other veterinarians love to hate for his wacky, off-the-wall recommendations on pet care and business ethics in spite of his never having worked in veterinary private practice settings––or in clinical medicine, for that matter.
Now, it’s not that Dr. Fox doesn’t have a valid point or that his message is totally off-base. After all, none of us would deny that euthanasia is a time of incredible stress for everyone involved, a time when the financial aspects of veterinary medicine seem incongruous with our pledge to alleviate suffering and advance animal health with compassion. And there’s no doubt that it’s tremendously tricky to euthanize a patient lovingly only to turn around and hand your client a bill.
It’s also true that Dr. Fox’s implication that veterinary medicine has gone money hungry––even in the face of euthanasia––is not completely wrongheaded. It is, however, an overly simplistic interpretation of the cultural machinations that drive everyday private practice economics. That’s because the “dehumanizing, money-driven ways” our society has lapsed into...cut both ways.
Consider:
- The client whose pet has been hospitalized for four days after suffering a diabetic-ketoacidotic relapse. Euthanasia ensues. The entire family is present. It’s a touching moment, as it often is. I don’t have the heart to charge the client at the moment. Six months later, I still haven’t been paid––for any of it, much less the euthanasia.
- When I euthanized a patient after a short bout with cancer, the owner opted for a beautiful (and very expensive) urn for her pet’s ashes. Again, I hadn’t had the heart to charge the client at the time of the euthanasia, near-hysterical as she was. When she came to pick up her pet’s ashes she hadn’t brought her wallet. Knowing how tacky it is to hold ashes hostage (as if we ever would), we handed them over along with the final invoice. We wrote off the entire bill in December after almost a year of non-payment.
- And if you think these scenarios are rare, you’re wrong. These just happen to be the ones I remember best for their especially high-priced ouch-factor.
- What about the client who you’ve only seen a couple of times? When our society is so mobile and our typical clients last two to five years (and veterinarians only last a few years at any one place), it makes it tougher to determine where to draw the line at comping costs for “faithful” client-hood. And when to let them walk away with a simple bill in the mail.
- And then there are clients who always seem to be bringing their pets only when they’re at death’s door. Do they deserve death concessions out of compassion?
- When costs for drugs, supplies, gas, equipment, etc. are rising so quickly, covering euthanasia costs for our clients will invariably mean raising costs for other services.
Is it nonetheless the right thing to do? Absolutely...in a perfect world. Or when your relationship with your client is so solid that it can weather any storm––a rare bird indeed in this culture of neighborly alienation and interpersonal estrangement.
Sure, I have more than a handful of fabulous clients I've not charged for actual euthanasia services, and yet it still irks to read Dr. Fox’s prescription for the right way to handle a tender client interaction. Let him spend a few months at a Banfield...or, better yet, working ER...and let’s see where his compassion leads him. He might then think twice about throwing his "money-grubbing" veterinary colleagues under a bus.
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Tough call because both ways because it hurts someone either in the wallet or the feelings, but bottom line, vets should be paid for services rendered, period. I wouldn't be smiling for paying for the euthanasia of my beloved pets, but I'd do it, and I wouldn't be angry at the vet as long as they present the bill with a little care for my wounded heart. I wonder if euthanasias should just be prepaid, period, such as, "I know you will be upset after the procedure; let's take care of the housework so you don't have to deal with it afterward." I don't know. This business is about relationships, but it's a business too. I just don't understand people who won't pay what they owe.
Shasta February 26th, 2009 07:51:33 AM
I think it's wrong for a client to expect free services, period. However tragic the necessity may be, we should remember that euthanizing our suffering creature is a service, not an assault. As a client who expects to pay for all services, but who may, on occasion, need a bit of time to do so, I am very troubled by the ones who take advantage of the human sympathies of the staff or vet in order to not pay for services rendered.
Having said that, the one or two times in the past when a regular vet of mine did waive the fee for the euthanasia after a particularly long, sad or expensive course of treatment, I was very moved and appreciative. But to expect that is just not fair. I think appropriate expressions of sympathy, followed by the usual billing procedure, whatever that may be, is the correct course for the office. People like me, however bereaved, will understand. The ones who are looking to get something for nothing will find something to be hissy about regardless--if you try to please them, it'll be an endless and impossible task.
Judy February 26th, 2009 08:03:11 AM
When our dog died a few years ago, I had taken him to the vet where he passed while we were there, yes too late for euthenasia.
So that sucked, and I was very distraught to say the least but not paying would have not occurred to me, afterall I opted for cremation and such and I didn't find it offensive to pay. However the receptionist was such a major effing b**** it upsets me to this day.
Major kick in the teeth. I remember standing there sobbing with my dying dog in my arms as she ignored me and helped a woman with her bill until the woman said why don't you help her first. Ugh hate hate hate.
I see nothing wrong with charging for services but please nice service, too much to ask? The vet and techs were kind and entirely inappropriate.
Sheyna February 26th, 2009 08:10:10 AM
Doh, that should be Appropriate not in-
Sheyna February 26th, 2009 08:11:00 AM
I got off a rant sorry but my point was I now realize, that settling a bill right there is not inappropriate however staff should be trained to do it in a nice way, like say a funeral director. No one would suggest that they not get paid for services rendered despite it being an emotionally charged transaction.
Sheyna February 26th, 2009 08:13:51 AM
At the hospital where my vet works, the financial paperwork for euthanasia is handled before the act. Generally the staff are setting up the animal's IV for a sedative, if there isn't an IV already there, and setting up a private room while the client does the paperwork. That way the client can take their time with their pet, and leave quietly out a side door.
If the pet is already in the hospital when euthanasia becomes necessary, the hospital already has the client's credit card number or other form of deposit, so the euthanasia is rolled into the total charges. Does your clinic not get that kind of information in advance?
I don't mind paying for the euthanasia (well, of course I mind that it has to happen, but if it has to happen...). The vet and usually a tech are taking time away from treating other clients in the time they spend with me, and I appreciate that their time, to some extent, is money, and that they are spending that time with me.
regina February 26th, 2009 08:19:56 AM
Whenever I have to make that final vet visit this is how it's gone: show up for appointment vet examines pet, discusses final options pay first euthanasia exit via backdoor This has worked well, and I've never harboured resentment about the financial aspect of this interaction. And I was able to spend as much time post mortem with my animals, and not parade past the busy waiting room. When I euthanized my first pet (after a hit by car), we did everything backwards, and it was awkward, and frankly awful! I hated being in the waiting room trying to write my cheque (yes personal cheques were still accepted then) while everyone was observing my grief.
charliebear22 February 26th, 2009 08:21:56 AM
A previous vet of mine charged for services prior to the actual services. When I client would come in for that appointment, the decisions were mostly made about what was going to happen, so the bill was presented prior to entering the rooms.
Connie February 26th, 2009 08:24:19 AM
I have been charged and not charged over the last 30-odd years Honestly, it didn't make a difference to me. When I wasn't charged, I considered it a "gift" -- and one never expects or demands a gift.
More important to me was the handling of the situation -- if the staff handled me with compassion and understanding when I called to make arrangements, if I were ushered immediately into a room (nothing's worse than waiting in a crowded waiting room with a pet you're there to euthanize), if I was given plenty of time in the room with my pet until I was "ready" and not hustled out after, being allowed to take all the time I needed and wanted.
Rather than being not charged at all, I would prefer not being charged at that moment, so I don't have to wait to check out. Actually, when I know we're close, I usually pay in advance and make all the arrangements so that's one thing I don't have to deal with.
Love the heartfelt, hand-written sympathy notes from my vet and the staff after. Means a lot. And I always send staff and my vet a thank-you note, too.
***
I have only had one bad euthanasia experience. My retriever Ben was to be part of a cancer study at UCD, and they needed a tissue sample. The researcher (no longer at UCD) pushed me HARD to drive to Davis so she could put Ben down in the car and cut out her sample. "I won't charge you," she said. Well gee, thanks!
I refused, and told her she was welcome to take her sample at our vet's post-euth .She said she was too busy, but flew in, cooler in hand, at the last moment and started setting up her tools on the exam table while I was preparing to say goodbye to my dog. She had a "get on with this, I'm VERY busy" attitude that was disgusting, and my veterinarian pulled her out in the hall and read her the riot act. (He later complained to the Dean as well.)
She cooled her important heels in the staff break room while we took our time with Ben. I never saw her again, and never got an apology, acknowledgment or anything. My own veterinarian, in addition to his usual wonderful care, apologized for her behavior, which was not his fault.
Ben's tissues were also part of a study at NC State. Dr. Matthew Breen and his research staff were helpful, understanding and compassionate, and he asked for a picture of Ben for his "Wall of Fame."
Four years later, that woman's behavior still leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth.
So ... there's are many things worse than paying for the final goodbye.
Gina Spadafori February 26th, 2009 08:35:01 AM
My long-time vet never charged for euthanasia of any of my dogs. He'd cared for them all their lives, and I'd paid him many thousands of dollars over the years. I thought that was totally appropriate. I did pay for the cremation, separately to the crematorium.
When that vet retired I moved to a different clinic, closer to home. My current vet, who I know personally as our sons went to school together and we were co-leaders of a cub scout den, has charged for euthanasia for both my cat & dog. The cat I understood as I was a new client then, but I found it offensive to be charged for euthanansia for my dog after she was cared for there over several years.
At least they did not give me a bill as I was leaving. I paid the vet bill & for cremation services when I picked up the ashes.
Personally, I think that long-time clients should not be charged for euthanasia services.
Diane February 26th, 2009 08:47:21 AM
The last time I had to have a pet euthanized--I honestly don't remember when I paid. It must have been beforehand, because I remember the amount, the fact that it included her care and treatment all that day (I had brought her in in the morning because I had woken up to find her quite obviously in dire condition), the euthanasia itself, and the cremation fee. It's especially vivid in my mind because I shortly after encountered someone else who had paid about the same for the successful treatment of their cat, and was complaining about the cost. I rather tartly pointed out that I'd just paid that much and had a dead cat at the end of it; that they should be grateful their cat was now well, and pay the bill without complaining.
But it must have been when I came in, before the euthanasia. I'd had to leave my cat at the hospital because it was simply impossible to take the day on zero notice like that for a pet; there'd have been enough of a stink if it had been for a human family member. I'd talked to the vet several times during the day, as Midori's condition looked better and then worse, and in the end she offered to keep the hospital open a little past closing so that I could be sure of getting there in time. And, with knowledge now of what was going on, and given that I had come in anyway, my boss was willing to fudge things a bit so I could leave a little early.
I know I stopped at the counter on the way in; I had to. I must have paid then. After all, we knew at that point what had been done, and what was about to be done--no uncertainty. But I don't really remember that part. I remember the vet talking about how sweet and friendly Midori had been to everyone, fooling them for a bit because she perked up whenever anyone came near. She left us alone for a bit, then came back in and everything was done very gently and kindly. And at the end, she showed me out the back door of the hospital, so that I didn't have to go through the waiting area and past the small number of people still there.
So there's no way I paid at the end; no opportunity. And I know I paid, I remember the cost and having to move money around to cover it. So it must have been when I came in.
I can easily imagine vets in some circumstances deciding that it's appropriate to not charge someone for euthanasia at the end of a long and/or expensive illness, or to not charge a particularly old and valued client. I don't see any justification for anyone feeling entitled to not be charged.
Lis February 26th, 2009 09:09:41 AM
I would absolutely expect to pay (though beforehand, not after, would be best, I agree). I know it would mean a lot to me to have my regular vet perform the euthanasia, and not an emergency vet or a stranger. I think the only thing that would bother me would be if my vet happened to charge a lot more than another vet, or seemed to be making a lot of money off of it. I guess in that case I would feel taken advantage of at a vulnerable time. But reasonable compensation feels right to me, especially if I had reason to feel grateful for the caring manner in which everything was conducted.
Sarah February 26th, 2009 09:27:11 AM
I've had office fees waived and money to do with the vet's time but I would never expect no bill. Drugs cost money and I will glady pay for the cost of the actual drugs used/supplies used. I love my vet, trust him (and the other two vets as the co-owned practice) and would gladly accept a gift but never expect it. I also agree with some of the above in that it all finances should be handled beforehand.
Katrina February 26th, 2009 09:33:04 AM
PS - I'm not disagreeing with Judy or Gina about how I would feel if a veterinarian waived the fee -- but to expect the fee to be waived almost seems to take away from the meaning of that gesture. I can only imagine feeling put out about the fee if I already felt like I'd been paying too much in some way.
Sarah February 26th, 2009 09:35:58 AM
Our clinics always try to arrange the details and the payment before hand. If they are paying with cash/the rare cheque/of credit card they don't need to leave the room. Only if they are paying with a debit card. They understand that they have as long as they need to stay with the pet post-euthansia and it generally takes an hour or so just to do the process, so yes, we charge out clients for it and they never have a problem with it. We also do mercy euthanasia on rare occassions.
Kathy February 26th, 2009 09:42:13 AM
I'm with Lis. I can see why a vet might elect to forgo charges, but from a client's standpoint, I would never expect to have my pet euthanized free of charge any more than I would expect to have any other procedure performed for free.
IMO, the vet deserves compensation for their time and services, regardless of whether it happens to be a happy visit or a not-so-happy one. As I see it, when our vet tweaks the invoice, that's a gift. We're in there all the time, and she has been extraordinarily generous in the discount department, but I can't imagine feeling entitled to a free euthanasia just because we're regulars and she happens to be nice.
Ramen Connoisseur February 26th, 2009 09:54:37 AM
I can't see a client expecting euthanasia free of charge; however, in my ER tech days, we never refused euthanasia on a suffering animal just because the client had no money. That's something our vets at the time fought management over and won. Most of the staff couldn't send a gasping HBC or bloat out the door to die slowly, even if they had to pay the euth cost themselves.
maria shanley February 26th, 2009 10:08:57 AM
I have to believe that euthanasia is one of the hardest things a vet has to do. Not that payment compensates for the emotional toll, but if compassion and bedside manner count for anything in a vet, this has got to be one of the times when they count the most. I can't understand the idea that it should be done for free. And especially when the vet has held your hand through illness, injury and the final decision.
Anne February 26th, 2009 10:46:44 AM
I cannot believe anyone would expect to pay for any veterinary service, much less for killing a pet. The mean ol' vets could fix em all if they would only try a little harder an use some of that there internet medicine. Every one knows that we all pay for the vets to go to school for free with our taxes and the drugs they use are all expired human drugs that the vets are being paid to dispose of on our pets. Jus ask Dr. Fox, he knows from all his years of private practice.
nutty as a pecan pie February 26th, 2009 12:07:39 PM
Euthanasia is a service, I have always paid for it without even considering otherwise.
emily February 26th, 2009 12:18:54 PM
Maria S: Yeah, us too. Never worked anywhere, in fact, where we wouldn't occasionally have to euthanize a pet with no funds attached. It happens. I can't imagine having to work somewhere that wouldn't apply this policy at the doctor's discretion.
Dr. Patty Khuly February 26th, 2009 12:29:26 PM
I don't think vets should lose money on this service (and it IS a service) and I've always paid ahead of time for my cats and dogs as others have mentioned. My beef is what to me seems to be the exhorbitant cost. I have no problem paying actual costs, but I don't think vets should be profiting from it. A minimal fee to cover the drugs seems like a nice middle ground. A friend had an aging hamster with a large tumor deforming its head and eye and her vet wanted $80 for a euth. They required a $60 exam, since this "client" had never been seen before (IT WAS A HAMSTER!) and then a $20 euth fee. I went over to her house and we used a bread bag, filled it with CO from her tailpipe and quickly and painlessly euthed the hamster ourselves. She would have happily taken it to the vet for a reasonable fee ($10?) but was not going to pay $80 for a $4 hamster. I have helped plenty of others do this as well. I also know people who will "take the dog out back" and do the deed themselves, usually in a very brutal manner, because they have called and been told the cost to have it done by the vet. A more reasonable fee, only to cover costs, might prevent some of this.
julie February 26th, 2009 12:29:29 PM
Yea what about the hampster, it never hurt anyone. Those vets seem to want everything, some even want to earn as much per days work as a school teacher. Our tax money pays for their school, pays them to go to school and buys them a new car and clinic with a vaction home and a fat retirement check after 10 years of practice. The nerve of charging for anything!!!!
nuty as ever February 26th, 2009 12:49:22 PM
Hampster in exhaust fumes, let me think, modern cars do not emit significant CO, only a hot searing mix of CO2 mixed primarily with nitrogen. Not too different from placing it in a toaster over or putting some kittens in a burlap bag with some brick ballast and tossing into a deep body of water. Cooked or Suffocated, just plain inhumane. Good work if you can get it, just do not let my PETA chapter find out who you really are!!!
one nut to another February 26th, 2009 12:58:25 PM
I always expect to be charged for this service although the fees have been waived a couple of times by Vets who had been regularly treating the pet I was having euthanized. I also remember a Vet that we'd used for a decade simply saying: "we'll take care of the details the next time you're in" and we did. I understand an emergency clinic getting paid up front or at least credit card on file. However, if my regular Vet said essentially: "let us take your pet and deprive you of a few of these last precious moments with him to ensure we get paid because we don't trust you to pay afterwards like you always have" then, well, yeah, I'd be offended. From reading the comments, looks like there's some significant differences in how clients want to treat this one. Maybe it's one where a regular client's wishes should be established during the first euthanasia and then on file for future reference. (And I'd hope that euthansia wasn't a profit center for a Vet. Seems to me that it should be a break even item and that seems to have been the case on the bills I've paid for this one.)
If a staff member was nasty to me during this particular process, I'd probably bite my tongue until after my pet was gone but then I'd probably make a very nasty public scene with that person. Nasty and public because I'm most likely to run into that nasty receptionist/clerk in the waiting room and I'm sure I'm not leaving nor biting my tongue for one minute at that point. Sorry, but that's the person who's going to get all my pent up annoyance with prior bad acts by other Vets and their staffs launched right in their direction - tends to happen if you trigger someone's PTSD :)
PJBoosinger February 26th, 2009 01:10:57 PM
As I recall there was one particularly sad abuse case recently involving some idiots and a hammer in a botched attempt at DIY euthanasia. http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_102408_news_dog_hit_by_hammer.1474180b7.html Clearly the vet's fault in this case according to Julie here.
Sheyna February 26th, 2009 01:22:30 PM
She would have happily taken it to the vet for a reasonable fee ($10?) but was not going to pay $80 for a $4 hamster.
This is off-topic, but that phrase always bugs me. You never hear people refer to their "$20 dog" or "$74 cat". Somehow because small pets are cheap to buy means they aren't worth any more investment than their purchase price :(
I had a $30 rabbit who was worth millions (to me).
Megan February 26th, 2009 01:32:29 PM
All right, I shouldn't say never- I do occasionally hear "I won't spend $40 for vet bills for a free cat", or something like that. But, society seems to frown on treating a dog or cat based on their purchase price, but it's okay for the pocket pets.
Megan February 26th, 2009 01:34:34 PM
We nearly always charge for the euthanasia service, done properly it is time consuming (as opposed to Dr Baber's technique). I will also charge an exam/consult fee when it is a new client. You would not believe the situations that folks ask for euthanasia, many for easily treated conditions, some for just convenience. We do not perform convenience euthanasias or kill pets with reasonably treatable conditions. It does require an examination and judgement by the vet to determine if this is the proper course. I have successfully treated many pets over the years that were brought in for euthanasia after merely educating the well meaning but ill-informed owner. These owners were relieved to know that something could be done. I sleep better at night because of it.
Hobson February 26th, 2009 02:01:12 PM
Megan, Isn't that odd?
As though a $100 cat differed in any respect to a $0 cat. When technically their only differences are in people's minds not necessarily in reality as cats have no useful function besides their value as companions. There are cats that live in barns and do jobs but really, mental accounting as applied to pets is a topic that needs to be explored by behavioral economists! The levels of irrationality…
Sheyna February 26th, 2009 02:15:39 PM
I'm glad there are already 30 comments, to get buried at the bottom. I've always been charged & paid for HUMANE euthanasia, and never resented it one bit, regardless of how long/short I was a client w/patient.
I too, become annoyed, particularly "in the present", when clients moan about the charge, it is always relatively inexpensive for the time involved, may or may not be distressful for all the staff (crying,sad owners), and the one gift and service that only a Vet can perform.
I am perturbed about the pocket pet comments too, or the $0 cat. As if they somehow deserve less.
I won't even venture into the insulting & disgusting details regarding "money or payment for services" for Pocket's memorable euthanasia, to spare the groans of the readers!
Barbara A. Albright/ NH
Pocket's Story from NH February 26th, 2009 02:53:31 PM
Having just had this service done two weeks ago, I can't imagine not paying my vet. He's been my animals vet for over 20 years. He fits us in when there is an emergency, he will do a consult over the phone if I need him to. I saw him tear up with me two weeks ago, having been Jazz's vet for the last 13 years. When I told them I couldn't afford the private cremation that I had for my other animals he told me "Pay when you can, no big deal", so I will pay him, because he offered that option to me. I would feel so weird to go back there if I didn't pay him for this service. Add to that my other dog being sick right now and having to have different meds and xrays and other stuff, the bill is going up, up and up. Still, no pressure to pay it off. No pressure to sign up for Care Credit (even if I would be approved, but probably not).
Sharon February 26th, 2009 03:52:22 PM
Megan- as someone who grew up with two remarkable (and much loved) $30 rabbits, I couldn't possibly agree more.
Maybe it's a regional thing, but I've seen a number of cats get the short end of the stick around here. Especially if the cat in question happened to be free, or adopted cheaply. I was admonished by someone (who had just finished lauding somebody else for the expensive surgery they'd had performed on their Lab) when I elected to keep a special needs feral cat. The man was appalled that I would "waste" money on "that thing" when I could easily get "two healthy ones for free, any day of the week". He was more than willing to tell me where, and disgusted when I respectfully (as respectfully as I could manage, anyway) declined.
People who would do anything for their dogs, but want to euth their cats at the first sign of trouble (or don't bother to obtain treatment until it's too late, when the dog would have been seen months earlier) because it's so cheap/easy to obtain a new one drive me nuts. And small animals undoubtedly have it worse. The majority of them probably never make it to the vet's. Heck, I was working in a kennel located on the premises of a veterinary clinic when my supervisor (who knew I had bunny experience) lamented that one of her bunnies was borderline emaciated and hadn't been eating much of anything "for weeks". Further questioning revealed that the bunny's incisors were very visibly overgrown. This woman took excellent care of her other pets, but it had never occurred to her to seek veterinary care for the rabbit.
Though her visits with our bunnies have never been any less comprehensive than those with our cats/dogs, our vet charges a reduced "pocket pet fee" for small animals.. most likely to discourage stories like the hamster one posted above.
Ramen Connoisseur February 26th, 2009 04:32:48 PM
A friend had an aging hamster with a large tumor deforming its head and eye and her vet wanted $80 for a euth. They required a $60 exam, since this "client" had never been seen before (IT WAS A HAMSTER!) and then a $20 euth fee. I went over to her house and we used a bread bag, filled it with CO from her tailpipe and quickly and painlessly euthed the hamster ourselves. She would have happily taken it to the vet for a reasonable fee ($10?) but was not going to pay $80 for a $4 hamster. I have helped plenty of others do this as well.
I am disgusted and appalled. No, Julie, that poor hamster didn't die painlessly. And all for a mere $80.
I had, for a few blessed years, two $0 cats, who never went to the vet for much under $100--and just to be clear, they went annually for physicals and vaccs, with interim visits when they were ill. (They were indoor cats, but visited regularly with the downstairs cat who did go outside, so they had a lot more opportunity to pick up the occasional illness.) Their end-of-life visits to the vet cost a great deal more than $80, because euthing them was not the first choice when they got ill.
Lis February 26th, 2009 05:21:57 PM
I have paid for cremation services when dropping off my pet's remains. In one case I also settled the bill at that time for the unsuccessful treatments we'd tried prior to her death. Each time the loss of my pet was already devastating. Paying for the privledge of losing her was just another drop in the bucket.
zandperl February 26th, 2009 06:06:07 PM
Having euthanized 3 cats today (I was Dr. Death today, apparently), this one hits close to home. Euthanasia is an important service that we provide. We schedule a double appointment (40 minutes), give people as much time as they need, sedate the pet, place an IV catheter. I usually waive the exam fee if we've seen them in the past few months, but I always charge for the actual euthanasia.
How it works at our clinic: the clients/pet are brought directly into an exam room (no sitting in the waiting room, unless, of course, the owner prefers to do so). If the owner is sure that they have come for euthanasia, a receptionist goes into the room, discusses cremation options, has the owner sign the euthanasia form, and gets payment. If they're not sure, the doctor goes in first to examine/discuss, then sends the receptionist in for paperwork. After the form's signed and the money stuff is done, the doctor goes in to talk. I spend as much time as is needed with the owner - many need some reassurance that they've made the right choice, or just want to reminisce for a while. Then I give some sedation, and let the pet fall asleep in the room with the owner. Once they're sedate, I take them back for catheter placement by a technician, then they go back in the room. Once the owner's ready, I give the euthanasia solution. The owner can leave immediately if they want, or can spend as long as they need sitting with their pet. Of course, any of this can change based on the owner's preference - today, I had two who did not want to be present, so I euthanized with a tech in the treatment area. The third did not want her cat to leave her side, so I gave the euthanasia solution without a catheter (with the warning that it might take a few tries to find the vein in her dehydrated elderly cat, although I ended up hitting it on the first try).
So that's the long-winded way of saying that the whole team works hard to make a pet's last moments meaningful for the owner. We take up extra time that could be used for other, probably more profitable, appointments. It takes a lot out of me emotionally as well. So damn straight, we deserve to be paid.
Deborah February 26th, 2009 06:06:09 PM
My vet has never charged me for a euthanasia.
The few times it has been for a rescue animal and we haven't opted for ash return (which we have always done for our own pets) there has been no bill, period. When it's one of our own, there's no exam fee and no euth fee - just the cremation and return fee.
And yes, all bills are generally settled beforehand, however there have been a few exceptions. That being said, I would never pick up the ashes without first paying the bill.
Kim February 26th, 2009 06:12:31 PM
After reading the other comments, two more thought: I really appreciated condolence cards sent by my vet or the animal hospital after my pet's death. In one case the animal hospital was associated with a vet school, so many of the people who'd dealt with my bird prior to her death were vet students who shared their stories about their own pets with me. It was really touching to then see their names and stories about my own bird on the card.
And second, I definitely agree that the size or cost of the pet should not indicate how much we spend on it. A ten-dollar petstore budgie should have a $40-$100 checkup as soon as you bring it home since it could be sick from its previous conditions, and it will probably need a lot more in treatment due to inbreeding. While I'd recommend against buying such animals, people who do get them and care about them put the money into them.
zandperl February 26th, 2009 06:15:53 PM
When I was a kid I had a wonderful, amazing Guinea Pig named Charlotte. She was every bit as special to me as have been the many cats I've had in the (many!) years since then. I don't have piggies anymore (hardly seems fair, what with the five cats and all), but if I did, they would get every bit as much love and care as the cats do--including a proper euthanasia, if/when it came to that. I'd never consider letting a little piggy suffer in a way I wouldn't allow for a cat. That's not a concept I can understand. A creature's a creature, no matter how small.
Judy February 26th, 2009 06:27:11 PM
And then there's my friend who took her dying dog to a vet she had used for years and was asked to sit in the waiting room for quite a while, then asked to prepay, all the while cradling her dying dog in her arms. Seems to me with an established relationship that the bill could have been sent to her after the fact. And my friend soon changed to another vet. When my dog had to be euthanized, I was billed later. I had been a client for a long time and had never been so much as late with a payment. And I appreciated the vet's compassion and understanding that, while I was certainly good for the bill, that I was caught up with saying good-bye to my beloved dog. I never once expected that this would be done for free. It was just that I was having trouble dealing with my dog's death and money was the very last thing I was concerned with. I know that not everyone pays their bills, but I think some consideration of circumstances and clients is a good thing in this situation. "One size fits all" probably doesn't!
dottie February 26th, 2009 06:35:06 PM
Our Vet and her assistant came to our house. It was done. The bill came 14 days later. A week later a condolence card arrived and a small donation our Veterinary Hospital made in our cats name made to a local no kill shelter. They make these donations in the name of all patients who have had a long term relationship with this group of Vets who have passed on while in their care or hospice at home.
Evet February 26th, 2009 07:19:26 PM
I'm not sure what my vet does as far as euthanasia payment (though unfortunately may have occassion to find out before way too long). I would never expect to not be asked to pay. Euthanasia is, after all, a service and a veterinary treatment.
Here's what kind of gets me though. I've read on at least two, maybe three websites, that some vets charge more for owner present euthanasias than they do for euthanasias clients are not there for.
Now, I do understand that sedation/room usage/catheter placement/what have you is going to cost more overhead than just taking the animal in the back and injecting the lethal drug with a hypodermic. But somehow, well, as much as I understand that, it just seems a little...tacky.
"Would you like to be with your pet during his final moments? Yes? Okay, that will be an extra X dollars."
Yeah...as much as I'm not one to begrudge a vet his/her right to charge for his/her services, that concept just seems...I don't know. It just feels wrong.
February 26th, 2009 08:01:40 PM
In the last 3 years, we've had 2 dogs PTS. They were done by our regular vet, and we weren't charged either time. I was surprised, because I expected to be charged, and would have paid the fee without protest. If we're charged the next time we need euthanasia services, I won't complain. But I have to say it was nice not to have to worry about a bill when we were grieving over our dogs.
There's a pet crematorium here locally that we use. When I know the need is coming, I call them and make the arrangements myself, and pay for that service separately.
Janice in GA February 26th, 2009 08:14:30 PM
The clinic we go to charges for euthanasia, but not an unreasonable amount. One should never expect anything for free, even if it is a clinic you've gone to for years and recommend to all you know. However, a gift is always welcomed. I have no problem with the idea of paying for it, and we have always paid beforehand if we knew that was what we going to the vet for, or like the last time when our 13.5 year old chow mix was found to be bleeding internally from a splenic tumor, we handed over the credit card and signed the forms and stayed with her to say goodbye. What does irk me is that I have known of vets in my area that will charge $100 plus just for the euth alone, and that our local HS no longer does private cremations at a lower cost. Of course, we found that out the hard way when Ginger had passed and we drove her to the HS for cremation only to find they now outsourced the services. That's the hardest part, paying for the ashes-returned cremation, because while it is in a way optional, in my family it is not, emotionally, an option.
Brooke February 26th, 2009 08:17:11 PM
We make a special effort to "outpatient" regular clients so they are at least spared the $35 exam fee for a euthanasia - corporate wouldn't be happy about it, but we feel pretty strongly that it's just in poor form. Euthanasia is about $65. It's free to take the body home, about $35 for group cremation, and over $200 for private cremation. IV catheter insertion is about $20, but we're pretty generous about that, too. I think our fees are fair and reasonable for the time we take, and I also think an office visit fee is fair if it's a new client or consult. We don't deny a moribund pet a humane euthanasia - if the owners truly have no cash, we usually write it off. There are always low-cost options though - a lot of local shelters will euthanize for little or no charge. I think putting a price on euthanasia discourages those who might elect it purely for convenience.
anna February 26th, 2009 08:21:36 PM
"some vets charge more for owner present euthanasias than they do for euthanasias clients are not there" The business part of my brain says that's probably because they can euth more efficiently while still being compassionate without the owner present. The cynic in me says they're probably not being so very compassionate when no one's watching. Having learned I could be present, I don't think I would (could) leave one of my pets even to a well known Vet for euthanasia any more than I would leave a bedside of a family member and risk they would die alone.
PJBoosinger February 26th, 2009 09:33:27 PM
When I had to put my cat to sleep it never occured to me I should get it for free. I had never heard of such a thing and didn't expect it. But, when I got the bill for that and some other services, I saw that the euthanasia itself was free. That meant so much to me. They did change for the cremation, but I assumed all of that when to the company that actually did it, and it was very reasonably priced. Did they tack on extra for it and keeep some of it? I don't know and I don't care. If they had, it seems reasonable since they took care of it for me.
Titch's Mom February 26th, 2009 11:07:40 PM
Two pets euthanized in the last few years, both by my trusted vet clinic with whom I have a 20+ year relationship. Dixie had been hospitalized all day, for what turned out to be a massive spleen hemangiosarcoma; x-rays showed mets in lungs and spine. The tumor had ruptured and she was hemorrhaging. After a phone call from the vet on his findings, I elected to euthanize her rather than prolong suffering. They set me up with the last appt. of the day. When I arrived, I paid the entire bill, for the day's tests, treatments and euthanasia (and I paid by check). Was taken to a quiet room and allowed to spend as much time as I wanted both before and after the procedure. They then placed my 80-lb. dog on a stretcher, wrapped in a blanket, and carried her to my car so that I could take her home to be viewed by my other animals and buried at home.
My cat Stormy had liver cancer. When I knew it was time, I called, was given the last appt. before lunchtime. I paid while they sedated her and placed the catheter, and again was given all the time I needed. Afterward, I again took her home for burial after my other animals were given a chance to view and sniff the body. Again, all was done with tact and consideration of my distraught state. Both were handled professionally and courteously. I would never expect to receive this service free, as it took their personnel, time, and supplies, and all of these cost money. Both times, I received a condolence card in the mail about a week later; a beautiful card with the "Rainbow Bridge" poem and signed by the vets, techs, and reception staff, all of whom I know well from our long relationship.Shellie February 27th, 2009 03:55:20 AM
I think if you're a "regular/responsible/faithful client", your vet will often omit certain charges or provide discounts. I also think that as a "regular/responsible/faithful client", I'd never *expect* those gestures to be made. As others have said, it's lovely to receive an unexpected gift, but I don't think it really counts as a "gift" if you demand it.
Leigh-Ann February 27th, 2009 04:14:01 AM
PJBoosinger: I've never charged more for owner-present euthanasias over owner non-present euthanasias, but there is a big difference in the two scenarios--and it never comes down to how much compassion is afforded the pet.
Euthanasia is far more stressful for us when the owner is present. We suffer with the owner(s). Seeing their pain reminds us of how much pain we know we'll likely face in the future with our own. It brings back memories of our past pets. Compassion fatigue is a great term for what happens after several of these experiences in one week--or one day, as was Deborah's case today. And, yes, it takes much longer to euthanize a patient when the owner is present; we have to make all compassionate concessions to the owner's feelings. Sometimes an owner spends hours in the room with a pet--and we work around it, despite the fact that there is only one other exam room in our small place.
When we euthanize pets without the clients present, I always verbally promise the owner that I will be compassionate and loving--as they would expect me to be. We take the pet to the back and administer the injections quickly--for minimal stress on the patient. We pet the animal softly and whisper in their ear that their family loves them. Sure, that all costs less, and yes, it's less stressful and less time consuming for us--but it's also what we believe is best for the patient in the absence of their family.
If some vets charge more for the former scenario, I wouldn't begrudge them this differential--they've earned it. I do worry, however, that more clients would opt for non-presence out of cost concerns when they really want to be there...and that's NOT what's best for everyone involved.
Dr. Patty Khuly February 27th, 2009 04:30:31 AM
And a big yes to everyone on the price of a pet. What is it about our culture that we tend to devalue things that cost little or nothing?
All of my pets have come with no monetary strings attached--except one of my goats and the chicks I just ordered--oh, and one boxer bitch and an Aby-cat back in vet school before I knew any better.
Why do we insist on this when it comes to pets when we all know that our own biological children are usually "freebies," too?
Dr. Patty Khuly February 27th, 2009 04:43:50 AM
I've never had a vet comp a euth, but they usually don't let me pay at the time. They send the bill. I don't expect them to comp it, although I would imagine in cases where you've spent a lot of money (thousands) there on your pet, it would be a nice gesture if they can afford it.
Stefani February 27th, 2009 04:54:12 AM
I have had good experiences with how the euthanasia itself is handled, but sometimes the billing could have been handled better.
I am also appalled at the suffocated hamster(s). :-( I had a "free" mouse and a "free" gerbil, and when it came to it, I sucked it up and paid for vet services & eventually euthanasia. I probably spent $100s over their lifespan on food, treats, supplies/toys, and bedding anyway. I had each for well over 3 years, and they were adults of unnknown age when I got them. They both ended up with some form of cancer and tumors, which the vets involved with each said was normal for the little guys. I expect to take my current pet mice in to the vet if they get sick too. Just because they are pocket pets doesn't mean you don't have to pay for them to see the vet.
All of my pets were "free" (even my cats), aside from a few fish I've bought over the years & the shelter mice I have now who had an adoption fee. So I really don't get basing health care on purchase price.
Raven's Mom February 27th, 2009 06:00:29 AM
I will agree that Deborah's clinic has a good approach. Euthanasia is a service, and it is usually done with care and compassion, so veterinarians should be compensated.
I believe that staff communication is vital on this issue. If the doctors and receptionists don't communicate about payment, paperwork, cremation requests, and other details, then the clients can have a more difficult experience.
Euthanasia is definitely not a one-size-fits-all for pets or clients. I think if staff memebers use common sense and compassion about the situation, everything will go ok.
lizz February 27th, 2009 08:13:46 AM
I think one should expect to pay for humane euthanasia. It's a professional service being provided (unlike a baggy & tailpipe!), and professional services should be paid for without hesitaiton.
If a Vet decides to waive the fee for whatever reason, that should be their personal discretion. I know that when we had our family dog euthanized, it took us by complete shock (she was 14 y.o., blind, epileptic.....can you say full denial?) and we were merely bring her in for an "exam" as she wasn't eating. The Vet had to calmly help us with the reality of the situation, and aloud us to sob hysterically in the exam room for half an hour alone before making peace with the decision. After her passing, we were in that room for at least another 20 minutes crying - and I know we definitely messed up the scheduled for the day. When I think back to all of it, though it makes me cry, I am grateful for how all of it was handled: compassionately and professionally. Kasey didn't suffer and went peacefully. I believe we were billed for her euth. and cremation upon picking up the ashes.
CreatureofHabit February 27th, 2009 12:02:10 PM
"allowed", not aloud. Yikes.
CreatureofHabit February 27th, 2009 12:06:58 PM
Ultimately speaking we are only temporary guardians of our beautiful animal friends. It's never easy when our companions are snatched away from us physically. Be it natural or to spare suffering. I sympathize with Vets in these situations. Especially where a favorite patient is involved. I has to be difficult for a Vet to have to tell someone, it's terminal, perhaps two months at best. Our Vet had to hold it together in our case, hold back tears because despite all the hard focused professionalism required over time she grew to love our little friend. Unfortunately things can happen quickly between annual exams.
Life is a risk from cradle to to the end.
Evet February 27th, 2009 12:41:41 PM
I'm disturbed by the suffocating of an animal with carbon dioxide but I'm not appalled. This is much the same as what is advocated by Final Exit for humans and they do that because we, as a society, don't always ensure a decent alternative. Yes, most Vets do euthanize for a very reasonable price but, if one can barely afford food for a pet (and yes I know many say such a person just shouldn't have pets but they do and they always will have), then $80 is a LOT of money. The average social security income for the elderly is $1,000/month (many much lower). Try living on that and being asked to part with $80 of it. I don't begrude the Vet a fee but I don't think people always tell the real reason for why they make other choices. It's easier to say "not paying $80 for a $4 pet" than to say "I can't pay".
It's all very well and good to talk about humane death of animals but there are also many livestock that have to be killed for food and an IV of drugs just plain isn't an option. Then there's the animal injured out in the country, an hour from the nearest Vet. Is it more human to transport them on bumpy back roads or even wait the hour for the Vet to make the trip to the location, knowing the animal will be in pain and may well die in the interim, or to use a bullet?
PJBoosinger February 27th, 2009 12:45:29 PM
Yes, Evet, I agree. After we left our Vet (keep in mind my eyes were practically swollen shut, so I wasn't seeing clearly), I looked up and noticed that not only had our Vet been crying, but the tech that took the body to the back room was as well. I've NEVER forgotten it, nor the hand-written note we received a week later. It was after that day that I told my mother I could never be a vet (I was a senior in H.S.).
PJ, I agree. Very disturbing- I can't help wonder about the rest of that story. As for livestock, that's an entirely different can of worm, which I think Dr.K has braved opening on more than one occasion here. ;)
When my time comes, I hope I am able to die with the same dignity and compassion as my dog did.
CreatureofHabit February 27th, 2009 01:13:11 PM
Yes, most Vets do euthanize for a very reasonable price but, if one can barely afford food for a pet (and yes I know many say such a person just shouldn't have pets but they do and they always will have), then $80 is a LOT of money.
Lots of animal shelters offer a low-cost euthanasia service (i.e. http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/services/lossofpet/euthanasia ). I know not all people have easy access to a shelter, but it's an option for those who do.
Megan February 27th, 2009 02:06:15 PM
I think that any vet who would charge $80 for euthansizing anything smaller than a horse (and I'm not counting the cost of the burial and/or cremation), is going beyond the pale, so to speak, in bad service, let alone ethics. I also agree with the majority that just because a pet had a low acquisition cost, it doesn't deserve a lower standard of care. A dose of iso on a cotton ball, popped into a lidded tupperware container, until pocket pet is completely unconscious, then the heart shot (don't start screaming - it is impossible to hold a hamster's leg off to find a vein), can't possibly use up more than $5 of supplies. Julie and her friend might have tried another vet or a shelter. Even a wildlife center might have been amenable to helping with a quicker (not necessarily kinder) death (rodents are sometimes CO2 gassed or have their necks broken) if everyone is discreet about it.
And I see PJB's point about not letting an animal suffer. However, it's one thing when it's the opossum with a broken spine (check for a pouch and babies first!), that a compassionate person can help out, but another thing when it's your own (or someone else's) pet. That's when many of us will suck up the long, bumpy ride, not because we can't face the inevitable death, but that we can't do it ourselves. Those people who feel that DIY is their only option often cannot accomplish it correctly and end up with a half-dead and truly suffering animal that they are so shocked by what they've done, they end up unable to finish it. It pays to try to develop a relationship of friendliness with a vet if you have an animal you care about. Being upfront all along about what you can do for your pet, no matter how little it might be (and as long as the vet doesn't see you driving that big fancy SUV), can allow a vet to truly be your pet's best friend at the end.
KateH February 27th, 2009 03:12:40 PM
I was going to write out what we do, but I'll leave it at "what anna said." I don't think clients should have the expectation that this is a service a private business routinely does as a service to the community- we already do that in a ton of other ways. We charge a fair fee, given what Dr K said earlier about the time and emotional energy it costs us and the clinic. I spend a great deal of time making sure it is as minimally traumatic and peaceful to the owner and the animal that I can, even if it involves 4 hours overtime while a client waited for every person she could get a hold of to come in and weigh in on whether or not she should say goodbye (I do not miss the ER at all.) I did waive the euthanasia fee one time when an ER client couldn't afford it and told me he would just take the dog home and shoot him.
I routinely waive the other things I could charge, like the IV catheter insertion, and the tranquilization ahead of time, and the office visit fee if it is a client we have seen before. I can see how one might find the nickel-and-diming rather crass so we keep it as a single fee regardless of the extras. That being said, if one is price shopping for the cheapest euthanasia, the shelter is always there.
I've never had a (regular) client complain, nor have I complained as a client in my days before vet school. As long as it is handled appropriately I think most people understand.
JV at pawcurious February 27th, 2009 04:43:26 PM
A shelter is an option but I know the one near me won't let the owner stay and certainly won't let them take the remains home for burial. They have to sign over the animal and leave it. I grew up in really rural areas where quite a few people had the drugs on hand to do this themselves but that's a lot tougher to do these days. They used to put morphine in first aid kits but... And I've seen really big tough guys cry decades after they shot their own dog or horse but who said they did it because that too was a part of their responsiblity as owners - craddle to grave, nothing less. I think it's great Vets offer this service but I can understand why these men would think their companions might also be disturbed and unsettled by the Vet being there or, more so, by going to the Vet. Death is still a very private matter to many.
I'm with Creature, I want a good death. Somebody take me to the Vet when the time is right. :)
PJBoosinger February 27th, 2009 06:40:35 PM
I may need to somewhat re-evaluate what I posted last night. I guess to say that charging more for owner present euths can open a bit of a can of worms -- Perhaps it's not as...erm...strange as it might seem to be charged more based upon the extras owner present euthanasias entail, emotionally and overhead-wise. After all, if there is one price for all euthanasias, then one wonders if the absent owner is paying more, if the hospital assumes owner presence and its associated additional supplies/time/etc. when calculating the cost, or is the owner present euthanasia costing less than what the service is worth because the hospital charges the price of owner-absent euth for all euths? So I guess I can understand a little better after some thought why a vet hospital might elect to charge more for owner present euthanasias.
However, I think Dr. K nicely summed up why some uneasiness remains for me:
"I do worry, however, that more clients would opt for non-presence out of cost concerns when they really want to be there...and that's NOT what's best for everyone involved."
I think that's why the idea of charging more for owner present euthanasias seems awkward to me. Sometimes, an owner must choose euthanasia for financial reasons. I'm not necessarily talking about those who opt to euthanize because, to them, it's just a dog/cat/what have you and isn't "worth" the treatment -- but more those who go to the extent their finances will allow, because their loved pet's worth is beyond price, but simply can't go further and must elect euthanasia. Actually, without going into gory detail, I may be in a similar situation rather soon, and I can't imagine not being there when it happens. Actually, when I was a teenager, I elected to be with our boxer when he was put down, but when I learned there were two injections (I always thought it was just one), I decided to just stay until he was sedated. Always kind of wished I hadn't left him alive, and never plan to do that again. Even having been present for a rather less-than-professionally-done euthanasia (not my vet), I still can't fathom not being present.
So, while I can't begrudge a vet his/her right to charge for his/her services, to the extent of those services, well, it will be painful enough if I have to opt to euthanize for financial reasons...even more painful if that had to be a consideration of whether or not I am in the room.
Lauren (Michigan Pet Lover) February 27th, 2009 08:18:30 PM
I think that any vet who would charge $80 for euthansizing anything smaller than a horse (and I'm not counting the cost of the burial and/or cremation), is going beyond the pale, so to speak, in bad service, let alone ethics. I also agree with the majority that just because a pet had a low acquisition cost, it doesn't deserve a lower standard of care. A dose of iso on a cotton ball, popped into a lidded tupperware container, until pocket pet is completely unconscious, then the heart shot (don't start screaming - it is impossible to hold a hamster's leg off to find a vein), can't possibly use up more than $5 of supplies. Julie and her friend might have tried another vet or a shelter. Even a wildlife center might have been amenable to helping with a quicker (not necessarily kinder) death (rodents are sometimes CO2 gassed or have their necks broken) if everyone is discreet about it.
When I take my pet to the vet to be euthanized, I'm not paying just for the drugs and needles used. I'm also paying for her knowledge in how to make that death as painless and unstressful as possible for my much-loved pet. For some reason, many people think it's somehow cheating for professionals to charge for their knowledge--even though that's the main thing separating professionals from laypersons in any profession, specialized knowledge that most of us don't have the time and resources to acquire because we've spent our time acquiring knowledge in other areas that we also expect to be paid for when we apply it on someone else's behalf in a business setting.
The fact that a euthanasia with owner present is likely to take significantly longer than a regular appointment, tying up that exam room, is also not "free" to the vet and the vet hospital.
It's all very well and good to talk about humane death of animals but there are also many livestock that have to be killed for food and an IV of drugs just plain isn't an option. Then there's the animal injured out in the country, an hour from the nearest Vet. Is it more human to transport them on bumpy back roads or even wait the hour for the Vet to make the trip to the location, knowing the animal will be in pain and may well die in the interim, or to use a bullet?
No one is talking about using euthanasia poisons on livestock being slaughtered for food, so that's a red herring. There are humane standards for the slaughter of livestock, though, and I want those enforced, too. An animal whom you really can't get to the vet, either at all, or in time and in a humane way, is also a separate issue--but most people either don't really know where to put the bullet, or find their hands unaccountably less steady in shooting their own pet than in shooting a game animal. So that's not always the path to reducing the animals suffering.
Lis February 28th, 2009 05:25:13 AM
Euthanasia is a service that involves starting an IV (materials and time) and administering a number of drugs (again materials and time), allowing the owner to spend some time in the room with the pet after the procedure (use of a room that could be used for treating other patients) and more often than not cremation (equipment use and time). Why should that be free? Do funeral homes bury people for free?
Yes, it's an upsetting time and a difficult decision but someone has to pay for it and it's most appropriately the person whose pet receives the service. Otherwise, as another post pointed out, everyone else ends up paying for it in increased cost of doing business. Personally, when I've had to get it done, I wanted to pay immediately and get it over with. I hate owing money.
silkenpaw February 28th, 2009 10:03:54 AM
Lis, I'm wondering if there was something in my words that you disagreed with, that you quoted them. I certainly wasn't saying that a vet shouldn't get paid for the service. I realize, in rereading it, that I forgot to add that 5 out of 6 vets I've been in this situation with, did not charge to euthanize a pocket pet, I assume because the cost in supplies is low enough that they've done it as a courtesy (I have had a number of cats and dogs who I spend lots of money on with them).
My suggestion that Julie and her friend could have tried another vet or a shelter didn't mean they should have 'shopped' for a freebie, just a more caring vet or shelter worker (since I think charging $80 to euthanize anything smaller than a horse is a lot). And people who work with wildlife are, sadly, professionals at dealing with animals in pain and needing release. They may not have DVM after their names, but all the ones I've known would have given a faster (but as I said, not necessarily kinder, because CO2 gas is painful but faster than cooking by tailpipe) death and been as sympathetic and compassionate to the owner as any vet, in that instance.
KateH February 28th, 2009 10:55:24 AM
Wow, I can't believe I made the same mistake - twice! I mean carbon monoxide - CO - not CO2. It's generally a fast, but not necessarily kind, way to put an animal down. Sorry about that mistake.
KateH February 28th, 2009 12:49:24 PM
KateH, you said that $80 is excessive for euthanizing "anything smaller than a horse" and implied that the cost of supplies is or should be the major factor in determining the price. From my standpoint, the supplies, while essential, are the least of what I'm paying for, the major factors being the vet's knowledge to make my pet's death as painless and stress-free as possible, and the use of an exam room for that to happen in and for me to spend some time grieving in before I leave the body to be cremated and eventually the ashes returned to me.
So, yeah, I disagree.
Lis February 28th, 2009 01:47:16 PM
Wow! Lot's of people are charged $80 or more to euthanize their pet! And people are still stuck on the one shot-two shot thing, or the IV catheter.
Eliminating one situation from discussion, most of my pets have received "one shot" and via syringe, no IV. And not speaking for myself, others have told me about ridiculous charges to euthanize their cat, dog, or what have you
Lis, I'm with you. The supplies add up to vitually nothing. This is all about the expertise & service involved, and expectations being met for both the pet and owner.
Supposedly for some animals, carbon monoxide (not via engine exhaust) is considered humane
Barbara A. Albright/ NH pet advocate
Pocket's Story from NH February 28th, 2009 02:11:55 PM
Since I meant this to be about an $80 charge that Julie said a vet was going to charge to euthanize a hamster, I'm sorry that didn't come out the way I meant it. I doubt that it takes $80 worth of a vet's (with or without vet tech/assistant) time and supplies to put any pet to sleep. People have been mentioning the "cost" nof a room that could be used for another appointment, but that's disingenuous, in that if any appointment takes longer than scheduled (and many do, things get found in an exam and dealt with, even it was supposed to be just a vaccination appt), it isn't factored in that you're 'losing' money on that occupied room - at least it shouldn't be. Yes, you charge for the extra service, but with a euthanasia, you shouldn't say the time isn't begrudged but then say the extra time lost has a big monetary value.
KateH February 28th, 2009 03:42:26 PM
"No one is talking about using euthanasia poisons on livestock being slaughtered for food, so that's a red herring. There are humane standards for the slaughter of livestock, though, and I want those enforced, too." Where I was raised, "livestock" is often a pet right up until slaughter time, from rabbits to cattle. It's no red herring in my book that there's is a great deal of gray between the terms pet and livestock and I've known quite a few who advocate that the ones raised as pets should be taken to the Vet to be put down rather than slaughtered for food.
"An animal whom you really can't get to the vet, either at all, or in time and in a humane way, is also a separate issue--but most people either don't really know where to put the bullet, or find their hands unaccountably less steady in shooting their own pet than in shooting a game animal. So that's not always the path to reducing the animals suffering." Exactly where did I advocate an incompetent twit doing this? If you're going to do it, you darned sure should know where to put the bullet and how to control your own emotions and steady your hand while doing it.
PJBoosinger February 28th, 2009 09:19:42 PM
Where I was raised, "livestock" is often a pet right up until slaughter time, from rabbits to cattle. It's no red herring in my book that there's is a great deal of gray between the terms pet and livestock and I've known quite a few who advocate that the ones raised as pets should be taken to the Vet to be put down rather than slaughtered for food.
Um. Exactly. Rather than slaughtered for food. No one is proposing that animals whose flesh will be consumed by humans should be killed with euthanasia poisons instead of being slaughtered by humane livestock slaughter standards. No one was talking about livestock at all, in fact.
So, yeah, red herring.
You talk about the grey area between "livestock" and "pet", but there's also a large grey area between "incompetent twit" and "person whose hand is absolutely steady when shooting a beloved pet." I agree that there are potential circumstances where, if you can do it, you may need to.
But bear in mind that in this very discussion, we have someone who believes it was a good idea and totally humane to kill a hamster by forcing it to inhale car exhaust, rather than pay $80 to the vet. It's one thing for someone who actually does know what they're doing, and has enough experience to actually do it on a pet, choosing to do that rather than wait for the vet or try to transport a suffering animal to a vet. It's another thing entirely for the average person trying to "humanely euthanize" their pet themselves. Or just killing it to save the vet expenses.
Lis March 1st, 2009 05:32:22 AM
PJ & Lis, I feel compelled to offer comment on the straying thread, that AVMA guidelines published as early as 1993 and Humane slaughter acts in almost every state define what is acceptable euthanasia for pets of any species and/vs. slaughter of livestock for human consumption. NONE advocate administration of poisons, zero!
I don't think this is a misunderstanding, but the one pet I have refrained from describing was not euthanized by ANY acceptable standards, not even the "fish species". Poisons or chemicals such as potassium salts, nicotine, curare agents are NOT to be utilized ever!
A gun-shot or captive bolt done "correctly" is the accepted humane standard rather than injection of toxins, I should know, I have been witness! Pocket's Story from New Hampshire
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i don't have a problem paying for euthanasia. the drug(s), the time, the cremation, etc cost money. when my dog was euthanized last year she was hospitalized for IMHA for only 36 hours. i put down $1500ish when i left her there. by the next night she went into DIC & seizures and wasn't going to survive. they told me that they'd let me know when my deposit was gone and they didn't. when i made the decision to euthanize her, i asked the doctor to charge the credit card on file with any further charges so i didn't have to sob all over the front desk when it was over. a few days later (i guess?) i received a sympathy card. it wasn't until WEEKS later that i received a bill for a good $1000ish more than my deposit. i was disappointed that they didn't warn me of the extra charges, that it took so long to get the bill, and that the doctor's updates with me weren't more complete. her hematocrit went down overnight, she received 1 transfusion, and the next morning it was holding. he told me that she didn't eat breakfast and vomited. it wasn't uncommon for her if she didn't eat a meal. when i told him that he said he felt it was due to her disease worsening but he didn't give me any details as to why. the next thing i know they call to tell me that she's not going to make it. it's been almost a year and i'm still upset that they didn't give me the full picture. i left her alert with their "cautious optimism" and the next time i saw her she was in a coma. i paid the $2500 without a complaint and feel that her receiving the best care was worth every penny, yet i also believe as a client that they could have been more compassionate.
sarah March 3rd, 2009 03:01:51 PM
I came to this discussion wondering what I could do for my Vet's office, Doctors and staff, as I am so appreciative of how wonderful and caring they were to me and my beloved pet during the whole process. I opted for an in-home euth, which I just assumed would cost me more. It didn't matter. What mattered was that my dog went to sleep peacefully in his own bed. It never occurred to me that I wouldn't be charged, and I was, very reasonably, I might add. I picked up his ashes on Wednesday of this week, and told the the receptionist I had an outstanding balance, she never mentioned it herself. I paid, picked up his ashes, and today I recieved such a beautiful card from the entire staff and doctors expressing each ones personal condolences with a little note about how much they cared about my dog. It was beautiful, and I'm still crying over it. That was on top of sending me flowers the day after he was put down. I would love to know from vets here what they would love to have from me, had my pet been their patient? I know paying my bill was probably sufficient, but I really want to express my thanks in a more personal way.
Jennifer March 7th, 2009 07:29:58 AM
Anyone wanting to know about the pros & cons of different methods of euthanasia should read the National Institute of Health's analysis of it- personally I consider gradual CO2 to be the most humane- especially with an ill animal with difficult veins. Charges for euthansia should be minimal- cover costs but not much in addition. I talked with2 friends, both of whom had found a stray cat hit by a car (as had I), taken them to the nearest vet where they were euthanized. One paid $35, I paid $80, my other friend paid $115. That kind of price difference is what makes people angry.
Ashley April 28th, 2009 08:34:20 PM
I beleive that a vet is entitled to a fee for euthanizing a pet. However, when it seems that the price is way out of sync with other vets - then I think the questioning should begin in earnest. How does a person know when a vet's fees are reasonable or out of whack with the norm? My family and I have had many cats as pets and over 10 years have had to euthanize them. When I recently had to put my cat down and was charged $225 I was dumbfounded (I was charged for exam, euthanizaiton & community cremation). The most anyone in my family every paid was $95. I researched my area and found that a vet not far away charged only $86. Needless to say my vet will be receiving a letter - I'm not sure what they will do, but I'm giving them the opportunity to respond to my concerns. I have another cat and I'm seriously considering going to another vet. So the burning question is: Where does the consumer go to check on price comparisons for veterinarians?
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I understand entirely that putting to beloved pet to rest is a hard and upsetting time for you.
Veterinarians dont like to put animals down either, as much as they hate it, its apart of there job to do so! It is apart of a pet owners job to supply adequate treatment for there pets entire life time. No matter the circumstance and amount of money! I understand at the time of your pet be put to rest it is hard to talk about the account you have with the procedure that is being performed. but if those clients that were regulars got it free each time, think of the money the business is paying out and not getting covered.
The cost of the drug that is used and the other euipment and time that the veternarian is spending with you (because these procedures cannot be rushed) all add up. Expecting to have an account is fair and should be expected.
I work in the industry and it wouldnt matter if free euth was provided for regular clients there would always be another issue raised. Garenteed!
Paying the account before the procedure is carried out is the best way to get it out of the way before the extreme emotion is brought into it.
Dont get me wrong i understand the emotion and pain invloved in loosing your pet i have been there! but i strongly believed that being offered a procedure and having the procedure carried out for your pet it is only fair that you expect to pay for the procedure. You dont get a funeral free, no matter the heart ache!!
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Our Vet and her assistant came to our house. It was done. The bill came 14 days later. A week later a condolence card arrived and a small donation our Veterinary Hospital made in our cats name made to a local no kill shelter. They make these donations in the name of all patients who have had a long term relationship with this group of Vets who have passed on while in their care or hospice at home. facts about cats
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