I don't mind having certain products available at my vet's office. But, finding regular Science Diet is too bad. Because it was at the vet's office, I thought it was good food. Unlike Dr. Dolittler, I am not inclined to cook all my dog's food. I am not inclined to cook all MY food! Now that my dog is off that stuff, her health has improved, skin better, and so on. The vet's office is the place to get prescription food or food of the highest quality that is not readily available anywhere else. The same goes for other products. My vet should not be in competition with Pet superstores. If they try, then they look less classy. "I can get it at Petsmart cheaper" is not something one should be able to say to your vet. I gladly purchase all medications from my vet rather than online. I know that it helps her bottom line. After all, she is running a business and I want her there for me when I need her. So, there is a balance beam for the vet to walk. If they provide great medical care and service, I can certainly overlook a few bags of food, which may help her stay in business.

Carolyn February 27th, 2009 05:58:01 AM

Interesting post. I've noticed my vet selling more and more non-veterinary items. I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I must admit I did purchase cat litter from them once when they advised to switch to unscented. And I guess I purchased my Drinkwell fountain from them out of convenience. And I didn't mind the handmade catnip pillows and mats as the proceeds go to cat rescue. But they started adding other toys, non-prescription food, vitamins, etc. No one has ever tried to sell me any of these items outside of the cat litter, and that was really because I asked what brand they recommended. But they are all sitting right near the cash register. I guess as long as they don't change their emphasis away from offering quality care and start hard selling the stuff, I'm OK with it.

Jenny February 27th, 2009 06:03:09 AM

I don’t mind some of the products.

While we were at the ophthalmologist’s the other day (boo), I noticed that Tyson’s collar was getting pretty ratty. It’s definitely time for a new one. Our vet carries the brand I like (much harder for Tyson to destroy), and they’re cheaper than the ridiculously priced superstore down the street. I’m loving the fact that I can just pick one up next week at my other cat’s appointment.

I’m also loving the fact that I don’t have to choose between driving 30 minutes out of my way and paying too much at a store that hocks horrendously overpriced mill puppies in order to get it.

Ramen Connoisseur February 27th, 2009 07:08:12 AM

As long as the vet is 100% behind what they are selling in their office, then I have no problem with vets selling products. Our vet's office the only place I can buy the  prescription weight reduction food for the giant (but absolutely lovable and irreplacible) cat we picked up at a shelter. His weight loss is super slow, but at least he's now losing the weight that his previous irresponsible owner let him gain. Our vet also sells certain toys and treats. When we first brought in our little puppy (now 6 months old) into the vet, she immediately gave him a chew toy and a bag of training treats and told us that these were the type of toy and training treats she recommended -- and that is why she sold them in her office.  She also explained why she recommended these products and what type of toy and treats not to give to the puppy.  The explaination as to why she thought the food was better than other food was important. Yes, this will make me go into her office every-so-often to buy bags of foods and more training treats, but at least I know that she recommends these products and that I'm giving my pets good food and treats. I wouldn't deny her any sort of money, because she is good at what she does and I'm pretty sure she stands behind her product.

Shauna February 27th, 2009 07:24:03 AM

Honestly, I just (last week) left the vet's office that I've been using for the last two years. I'd like to think they get a lot of 'business' from me, I bring in strays and pull shelter dogs to independently foster and treat through their clinic. Occassionally they've helped me financially, but most of the time I use up 1/2 the time in the office (so, lets calculate $38 for a vet visit, I pay $19 for him to look at the dog and pay $19 to hear a sales pitch) turning down Science Diet, wet and dry, corn based vitamins, treats, special dog bowls, brushes and combs and clippers, kongs, tug-a-jugs, Clomicalm... they started to make me feel like no vet was worth my dollar.

So I left this vet because I desperately needed help treating a HW+ (do you have any articles on heartworm treatment?) dog, but got no where with them... again with the food I should consider giving him and how expensive the injections would be because they have to special order them.

Thank the Lord I found a hospital more concerned with the individual well being of the dog and showing its caretaker some respect for her intelligence without trying to upsell and sway my philosophies.

I gladly pay my bills, I gladly get the preventative meds from the vet office, but trust me when I say that I can't support the retailing in the lobby of the vet's offices. I truly think it takes away from the point of the vet's office, and the integrity of the practice as a whole.

This blog and our new vet have truly renewed my hope and trust in the 'system' of companion pet health care. Thanks for that!

Jen February 27th, 2009 07:44:08 AM

I started selling equipment to my training clients because local stores would not stock the type and quality of stuff I was recommending; and when they did have a few appropriate items, the markup was horrendous.  I want to provide a good service to my clients, and part of that service is making sure they have the right tools the very first day.

So in principle I have no problem with the vet's office selling supplies, especially if that is handled by the reception staff exclusively.  I mean, a lot of veterinary clinics have grooming and boarding, too -- that's not a veterinary service, and presumably the guy who went to grad school to get three extra letters on his name is not scooping runs or bathing Shelties.

I do have an issue with "pushing" non-medical products, especially if, as the previous commenter complains, a client is paying for exam time and getting a sales pitch.

I get miffed when I see vets selling fad training equipment that they don't know how to use, (and when not to) can't instruct the client in its use, and have no expertise in the issue the gizmo is supposed to address.

I'll refrain from selling wormers, m'kay?

Maybe you know when you've crossed the line when a client comes by, with no appointment, for the purpose of shopping for brushes and cat treats?

H. Houlahan February 27th, 2009 08:00:16 AM

H. Houlahan - I have to laugh, because just last week I was embarassed after entering a veterinary clinic whose windows advertised "PET SUPPLIES", hoping to find some better tartar control products than were available at Petsmart, and quickly realized that the pet supplies were only salable to clients!

Sarah February 27th, 2009 08:27:20 AM

I like having pet supplies for sale. I trust my vet to sell me products free of tainted peanuts and artificial sweetners--and I know she chooses the items carefully. She doesn't every sell them to me--I can just choose to pick one up and take it to the counter when I pay my bill. To be honest some shopping is a way to fill the waiting time which is otherwise rather dull.

emily February 27th, 2009 08:32:14 AM

I wouldn't mind in the least if my vet had a whole pet store of products to sell. I might enjoy being able to look through the things my vet deems worth of selling while I'm waiting for my appointment.

I would very much mind though if my vet then started pushing these items on me while I was there for his services. I pay him to treat the medical issues of my pet, and to help me understand behavior going on. If I want his suggestions on products, I would specifically ask, but to me, anything outside of the pet is not his area of expertise. He went to school to study the pet, not compose the pet food, or comment on which collar would be better or which chew toy is best. Maybe he knows which ones are bad because he's heard stories of pulling distroyed toys out of pets, but still... to me anything else would just be opinion, and should hold no more weight than the guy at the pet store.

unless a vet specificially studied some other additional feild of pet care, nutrition, behavior, training, etc...

Connie February 27th, 2009 08:39:30 AM

Supplies & food being at a vet hospital are OK but please don't push them at me. I'm not inclined to feed Science Diet unless I have a particular need for one of the prescription diets & I know for sure, other supplies I can find elsewhere at a lower cost.

Ellie February 27th, 2009 08:48:36 AM

We get a limited ingredient prescription kibble (duck & green pea) at the vet's, but it is in the back, not out front with the Science Diet.  The cat tested + for food allergies, and byproducts, not otherwise specified, can contain the forbidden ingredients.  Lately we find that if the cat barfs, she is usually barfing kibble, not the wet food that she gets twice a day.  I think she's what Dr. Pierson calls a kibble addict, though, as she is often seen just nibbling a few kibbles.  I believe she was raised on kibbles, and in her previous home she got mostly kibbles, with wet food as a treat.  After hearing the debates on wet vs. dry, I started with offering two small servings of wet food a day.  Right now she's cleaning her plate of half a 3 oz. can of Avoderm chicken chunk cat and kitten food twice a day.  She is a slim and "cut" 6.75 pounds (& small-boned).  I'm not sure how much wet food she would need to eat if she were completely off kibble.  It looks like she's only eating 1.5 oz. at a sitting becuase she particularly likes this food.

Miss Kitty's Mom February 27th, 2009 08:48:39 AM

The clinic I work at carries some prescription Royal Kanin in the back of the clinic, but up front all they have are supplements for the holistically-minded clients that our clinic caters to and some things like medicated shampoos and ear cleaners. The supplements are nice, since the doctors only stock products that they know and trust, which can be hard to pick out if you're looking for them at Whole Foods or Petco. We're lucky to be in an urban area with a good number of well-informed, well-stocked local pet stores. Rather than offer pet supplies or non-veterinary services ourselves, we have good relationships with local stores, boarding kennels, doggy daycares, groomers, trainers, and any other services clients might ask about. We keep an up-to-date handout for anyone who asks for recommendations. My vet clinic is great at vet med but we leave everything else to the experts :)

Megan February 27th, 2009 11:07:01 AM

These products take up space.  This increases fixed overhead costs.  If the sales are high enough to cover those costs (and they won't be unless you're pushing product), then that cost has to be factored into service charges to clients.  Then there's the variable costs which may produce the same issues when there's spoilage, returns, staff time to deal with products and producers...

I'm old enough to remember when human docs had pharmacies and retailed right out of their offices and it was very common.  It's been outlawed in Texas but is still common and there's a commercial push to increase it. http://www.drdispense.com/services.php  I was furious after an exam where my doctor informed my that my script would be handed over ONLY to his in house pharmacy.  I do not approve of in house pharmacies except for emergency meds and those that can't be obtained through other means (essentially the same as an in house hospital pharmacy).  IF a Vet feels it's necessary to have an in-house pharmacy, I think they should be REQUIRED to fill out a script and simply say they can fill it or the patient can take it elsewhere to be filled.

As for the non-pharmacueticals,  distasteful would be a nice word for what I'm thinking.  I think the pet food companies should be held strictly liable when there's poison found in the food.  Unless a Vet wants to get right in that chain of liability, they should barely be willing to recommend, let alone stock and sell these products.  If ya just GOTTA do it for some bizarre reason, then put in a separate entrance and run it as a separate commercial entity.

You recommend insurance that the company goes into bankruptcy after a client has paid premiums for 10 years and just as their pet is being diagnosed with cancer.  Will you be providing those treatments for free (after all, they did get the policy on your recommendation)?  A professional recommendation, like an professional opinion carries a special weight, as it should, and it should not be given lightly.  I think sales and retailing encourages doing so.

As an attorney and accountant, I frequently referred clients to commercial products as supplemental or even in lieu of my services (with all the appropriate caveats and warnings) but I NEVER sold them.  I held quite a few sales positions while I was in college and grad school.  I can probably sell ice to Eskimos.  It didn't come naturally but you can sure learn it if you have a kid to feed.  I could easily have sold Will kits and the full line of Nolo law and financial books to clients and it would have made a nice supplemental income but I didn't.  It just doesn't pass even a nominal sniff test.

PJBoosinger February 27th, 2009 11:10:55 AM

It bothers me to see the veterinary diets because I believe vets are brainwashed and/or incentivized into pushing these foods rather than lower cost off the shelf alternatives that are often equally good, if not better, in quality.

Never really occurred to me until recently, but I realized with happiness recently that my vet doesn't sell that stuff. They sometimes RX it, but they don't sell it. Makes me happy.

Stefani February 27th, 2009 11:27:08 AM

The wall of Science Diet bugs me, but they never push it and my Vet respects my home-cooked diet (for the dog...not so much for ME!). However, I really like getting my Frontline+ from my Vet, it's not much more expensive than online and it's convenient. I also like their selection of toothpaste and they have a new no-itch shampoo I love that doesn't smell like disgusting "dog shampoo". So, I don't mind it at all. As long as it's quality stuff and takes a back seat to the care and health of my pet.

CreatureofHabit February 27th, 2009 12:11:46 PM

It annoys me for a few seconds if I see products I prefer to avoid.  Our vets suggest but they don't cram it in your face with a hard sell.  Hills obviously monopolizes the Vet market at point of sale and I don't know what kind of "warfare" would evolve if other brands attempted to move in on their "territory".  Would be interesting to see what happens when if other brands decide at some point . . "whats it going to take  to get our healthy product into the Vet market"?  Otherwise I see some Vets have value added profit centers in the building seperate from the clinic.  Not a bad idea you can stop in and browse toys, beds, grooming stuff, etc.

Evet February 27th, 2009 12:51:45 PM

I'm in the group that would take offense if the vet started selling stuff that is available at the pet store.. My vet does have the Rx food,  medicated shampoos, Heartgard, and Frontline. in the back. They also sell the meds they think the pet needs, but they don't push me to buy..  and they aren't hesitant to give an Rx.. It is convenient to purchase meds that are needed right away.. They will also use email recall to make sure the animal is taking the Heartgard.. I've emailed back advising them that I purchased it through MedVet,  when I order medical suppiles.. I've been doing it for years, and they have never taken offense..

Barri & Socrates February 27th, 2009 01:40:47 PM

Of course retailing is a complicated business and a real time consumer and the next thing you know you got sales reps constantly barging in at the wrong time saying . . "We believe! This product is the greatest thing since Lava Soap!"

Evet February 27th, 2009 01:59:35 PM

"Okay Joe, whatever ya say. Lava Soap.  Now if you'll just excuse us while we complete this dental thank you."

Evet February 27th, 2009 02:07:21 PM

Having collars and leashes on hand can be helpful for those times (thankfully rare) when a, ahem, clueless client brings Rover (who's really not good around other dogs and wants to eat kitties) in without a c&l or with a falling apart collar and a ragged piece of rope with forty knots in it. While I, personally, don't like and would not use the c&ls we stock, I'm going to suggest strongly that they could solve a problem right now, before Rover leaps out of the owners arms or pulls that rope out of their hands as it leaps for the cat loosely wrapped in a towel. This has happened and always when both exam rooms are already occupied. I've gotten 3 out of 5 owners last year to 'upgrade' and I don't in the least feel that I was doing a hard sell. I saw a need that we could fill and for all the best reasons we did - and the clinic made about $33 out of it (whoopdedoo).

We have the products we actually use for treatments (ear cleaners, etc.) and feel are better/best for skin issues (shampoos & sprays), dental care, joint problems, and other supplemental things (Catlax/vitamins) than what someone could get at the big pet supplies store. Even when they actually have the same brand product, our prices are often lower. I wish we could afford to sell better/best grade grooming supplies than the BPS store (like the Furminator, a product we recommend to clients often), but those would cost us more to sell since we don't have room to buy in quantity. Sometimes a pet comes in for clipping/combing/shaving, and if we could show them right then and there how well a product can work, I think the pet would be helped by us 'upselling' right then instead of the client saying, "Oh, yeah, I'll see about getting one of those" when most of the time they won't.

While I'd like to see us have an area of things that support local rescues and a small selection of end-of-life products (paw print kits/frames), in a portion of the space we use to stock the Rx diets I'm not as thrilled with, the vet knows the food does increase his bottom line and he believes in the food more strongly than I - and since he signs my paycheck...

KateH February 27th, 2009 02:31:29 PM

PJB - I'm not sure I understand your reasoning about the insurance. I think it's ...odd... to say that if someone suggests a product that works out for the purchaser for 10 years, but then the company goes out of business, the original suggestor should be somehow liable for that. A mechanic who suggests buying a Saturn isn't/should never be considered at fault if GM ends up going out of business (discontinuing parts manufacturing). That's not the best analogy, I know, but it sounds as if no one should recommend any product (whether they believe it's worthwhile or not), because one day it might be taken off the market. I'm not trying to get rude, but I'm having trouble understanding your side and explaining mine. Anyone else want to take a stab at this?

KateH February 27th, 2009 02:45:39 PM

Our vet back at home doesn't carry many products in his clinic, but I would actually prefer if he did! It'd be nice to vet-recommended supplies like nail clippers or treats that help clean up my dog's teeth at the office instead of having to use my best judgment (which often proves to be the worst judgment) at the pet store.

Did you attend Wellesley College? I'm a pre-vet sophomore here at Wellesley, and I can't get enough of your blog!

Grace February 27th, 2009 02:53:40 PM

I would be very miffed about exam time being used for the purpose of pushing unnecessary products. It probably would have been the last time I patronized that clinic, too.

I hate high-pressure sales tactics. Heck, I  won't answer the door for salespeople, pretend "the parents aren't home" when solicitors call, and avoid shopping at stores where they're too pushy about scan-saver / credit cards I don't want. Not to mention.. I'm not paying for a sales pitch, and I'd much rather my vet's attention be focused on the health of my pet than whether or not I'm a good retail prospect.

I don't mind quality products in the waiting area, or a stash of purchase-worthy shampoos and supplements that may be hard to come by elsewhere. But cheesy, poor-quality stuff the staff themselves would never dream of using and pushy sales tactics are a no-go in my book.

Ramen Connoisseur February 27th, 2009 03:01:32 PM

My vet is in a super-tiny building, no frills whatsoever.  I'm sure she carries Science Diet but it's not out in the lobby.  Nothing is in the lobby but a couple padded benches, on opposite ends of the room.  That's it.  I love it.  

Pit Bulls Make The World Go 'Round

Liz February 27th, 2009 03:26:29 PM

I can honestly say that I'm going to school to be a vet. Not to sell Science Diet or any other product. Especially because when a client asks eventually, I'll have to tell them that none of my pets can eat science diet (one dog gets colitis, the other puritis, and the cat just gets fat), nor would I really recommed it as a diet if I can get them to feed one of the higher-quality, silimarly priced diets available at the LPS. SD over Ol'roy? Sure. SD over any of the decent food out there? Not so much.

That being said, I'll happily recommend products I like and trust (Kong, Furminator, Dasuquin, 3V Omegas, etc) if it's applicable to the pet and client's situation or they ask for my personal opinion. BUT if a clinic that I work in wants to sell retail products, they'll need to have a manager or another vet who wants to be a retail salesperson/manager because I refuse to be it. I've got no problem with the clinic selling products that are high quality and safe, but it shouldn't be the DVMs' job.

It's the same reason I don't want to be a clinic owner- I just am not currently interested in business and think that the most well run clinics are usually run by people with good business skills or a manager with an MBA. Things work out the best when people do what they're good at. It's good business, it's good medicine, and it's good for morale. Vet= Dx, Sx, Rx, and charts. Everyone else does everything else. (Not saying that vets shouldn't/can't help out, but I was an assistant for a long while, and for goodness sake vets, let us do our job! Go do that stuff that you actually need a DVM to do!)

lindabcs February 27th, 2009 03:39:33 PM

I don't mind health-related items. Some things I think are acceptable: toothbrushes/paste, elizabethan collars, food supplements, bitter apple spray, perhaps orthopedic dog beds, maybe even raised dog bowls if those are things you recommend often. Of course the usuals -- "prescription" dog food (I'd prefer to see just good solid elimination-type diets, but oh well) and healthy treats. My vet sells a TON of Dogswell, for example, which I think is way better than a lot of the crap on the market. The stuff I think is pointless are toys, leashes, scented candles (no joke), plants (also no joke), air fresheners (really, no joke). I never buy anything at my vets because the markup is super high and I work at a pet store anyway. I've never seen a vet pushing product, I think it's just there for people to browse at their leisure while they wait for an appointment.

Cat February 27th, 2009 04:10:55 PM

I think some items are warranted; as long as I don't see shopping carts outside the door. I really appreciate Pill Pockets, when going home with medication--no matter if a dollar or two more. Same thing for a shampoo, ear cleaner, and I used to love going home with a plastic flea comb!

If the clinic is selective in choosing products, the items will sell as needed/recommended appropriately.

Barb A./NH

Pocket's Story from NH February 27th, 2009 05:00:25 PM

When our vets moved to a new office, the made seperate dog and cat waiting areas. In the little nook on each side, they put in shelves and have some dog or cat items for sale. All the toys double as teeth cleaners or behavior modifiers. They sell pill pockets cheaper than where we get our other pet stuff. They have some collars and leashes (Lupine). They sell a few more cat toys than dog toys. The shelves are not intrusive and the front staff have never pushed the items to anyone (and we are there a lot). They did ask us to let them know if the pill pockets worked with Sparky so they could pass the usability on to others. There's no food up there. All that is kept in the back and is all prescription stuff.

If they do start pushing the items or if the space grows, I will probably say something. How they react will depend on wether we stay with them or not. We've been with them for umpteen years and I'd hate to go. I'd not hesitate to switch mechanics if they started selling toilet paper and Halloween costumes out of one of the bays. Why would I continue going to a vet who is, basically, doing the same thing?

Everywhere else, I dislike having to go through the Point of Sale items just to get to the cash register. The pharmacy we go to is small and sells pharmacy stuff. Not sand buckets, candy, or motor oil. They do sell cards but they are along the wall in a corner and are by a "green" company. I don't want to go to a pharmacy and have to go all the way across the store to the tiny window in the corner, lean over the condom display, and pick up my meds. Worse yet, I don't want to be told my medication is up front with the cashier. I like my privacy and don't want the bubble gum chewing teenage clerk handling my medication, thank you very much.

PaulaO February 27th, 2009 05:37:42 PM

KateH, The problem is things change over time.  If my Vet is treating my pet for diabetes, I expect the Vet to stay up on treatment alternatives and keep me updated when I go in.  If they recommend a food and I'm buying it from them, they sure better tell me about recalls or problems and not just the next time I come in but with an immediate phone call since I bought from a professional based on a professional opinion.  It isn't the same as buying from Wal-Mart.  If a Vet recommends a particular insurance policy, sure I expect them to keep up and tell me if this service product has changed just as I would expect my broker to call and tell me one of my major stock investments is looking like it's going to tank.  If you're selling or recommending it, you should be keeping up on it too.  Of course, that's also why I look to my broker for information on stocks and to my insurance agent for information on insurance...  And then the question is: just how many areas, especially areas outside one's primary field, can one person keep up on?  The insurance may be an even bigger deal because that's a whole separate industry that would need monitoring.  You say "worked for 10 years" and I would say "failed at the critical moment" and I seriously doubt these pet insurance policies are yet being properly regulated to prevent future cash shortages.  But, hey, maybe those pet insurance people aren't like the human insurance companies and they'll be perfectly honest and never need regulation. :)

PJBoosinger February 27th, 2009 07:06:24 PM

I have no problem with some retail, as long as the vet truly backs up the products. But I want the vet to know WHY each product is on the shelf - what makes THIS shampoo better than whan i can buy at Petco, what makes THIS toy safer for my dog, what makes THIS dental product work and what makes THIS food better than what I'm feeding. Its a pet peeve of mine to see a vet push Science Diet on me but if I'm considering buying something on my own I want the vet to be able to back up why its offered. While they're not meant to be salespeople they should at least be able to tell me how this or that ingredient can affect an animal. In the end I'll make a decision myself whether to invest in a particular product, probably based on my own research or recommendations by other pet owners whom i consider knowledgeable and experienced, taking the advice of the vet into consideration.

Tatyana February 27th, 2009 08:07:46 PM

I even apologize to my pharmacist when s/he has to check my ID to buy OTC drugs, such as pseudoephedrine.  They're not supposed to be cops, they're doctors! 

zandperl February 27th, 2009 09:27:30 PM

Grace! A fellow Wellesley-we!! I was technically not pre-vet at the big W since I completed some of my biochem major coursework elsewhere. I did, however graduate with a degree in Art History after falling in love with the department. 

Please keep in touch! (It sounds like you will if you keep reading.)

Dr. Patty Khuly February 28th, 2009 01:39:56 AM

Zanperl: I'm with you. Pharmacists are well-educated professionals and the Walgreenification of their industry is a cautionary tale for others. I'd like to see their lobby push harder for its right not to have to check IDs and other such nonsense. It's something we veterinarians lobby hard against--as with BSL and MSN (breed-specific legislation and mandatory spay/neuter). I will NOT play animal police in any capacity.

KateH and PJB: I'm actually with PJB here--somewhat. I do worry that a recommendation of a specific insurance product is generally outside the realm of most veteinarians' core competencies.

As a veterinarian with an MBA, I'm in a much better position to advise, and still I'm uncomfortable pointing clients in a specific direction on this. I recommend pet health insurance highly, and I inform clients of what plans my other clients like. I then direct them to online resources and hand them a brochure (which may have a specific company name) so they can familiarize themselves with the concept.

But I do worry that their unhappiness with a specific insurance plan will affect their trust in me. That's why I leave the ultimate decision on policy choices to them, directing them to consider the major issues: genetic disease coverage, reimbursement rates, deductible choices, etc. 

Dr. Patty Khuly February 28th, 2009 01:54:11 AM

Dr. K. I guess what my question was involved how 'at fault' the vet (or any staff at the clinic) should be if the insurance company goes out of business. I highly doubt the company would call the many (hundreds - thousands) of places their brochures are (or that even a broker for the company would) to let them know that there's a problem coming up with the insurance company's ability to pay out on claims. It's not as if pet insurance would likely have a national disaster, like Katrina, to deal with that would wipe out their reserves. And, even if they did, how is that the vet's fault?

Besides, even if the vet/staff did hear that the company was having trouble, should they tell clients "Better get all the work you can possibly claim, done right away, 'cause XYZ Co. is shutting down next month, and you'll need to try to get new insurance real soon." During the time it takes to get new insurance, if something goes wrong with your pet, is that also the vet's fault for you not having the wherewithal to pay for it? I don't see how it could be, just like it's not the vet's fault if you don't have insurance or extra money saved to pay for it.

KateH February 28th, 2009 05:02:50 AM

I would love to see vets carry more "products".  What I'd love to see are products such as kong, premeir pet, holee roller, etc.  People look to their vets for all kinds of advice, why not be able to walk out of the examination room for a second, grab a toy that very well could nip the sep anxiety in the bud?  I'd rather see this than a vet that automatically reaches for clomicalm or reconcile.  Same thing for safe toys, if a vet stands behind the product and recommends it, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to benefit from recommending that product.  God knows we get to financially benefit from the supermarket nutritionists recommending a food that gives pets diarrhea.

Same thing applies for such things as the Halti or the Gentle Leader.  Yesterday I sat with a client explaining it to her, had I had one, I could have sold it.  Instead, I wrote down the names of the products and am HOPING that she goes to Petsmart.  Mostly because her basset doesn't seem to mind being choked to death by the choker.

Jackson February 28th, 2009 05:35:05 AM

KateH: Agreed. Not the vet's fault. Recommendations of products do deserve due diligence on the vet's part, but only so much of it is possible. For example, is a veterinarian liable for selling tainted products when the pet food companies didn't tell us about it until way after the fact? Nope. Is a veterinarian liable for disc injury if the Halti he sells gets yanked too hard? I wouldn't think so. All these products have their own set of liability issues that veterinarians shouldn't be expected to shoulder, IMO.

Dr. Patty Khuly February 28th, 2009 07:10:16 AM

Dr. K, I tend to agree with you that Vets probably shouldn't be liable but that isn't to say they won't be in the future since the reasoning is already supported in some case law out there.  Often it doesn't appear to be the law until some court suddenly declares it is and then, suddenly, it just is.  I tend to analize things in legal terms but there's also the trust/distrust and potential guilt too.  Being raised on guilt, I find my strict legal reasoning also keeps me clear of the blurry area that leads to feeling guilt (which I just plain don't enjoy).

PJBoosinger February 28th, 2009 09:32:14 PM

This is pure and simply selling out your neighborhood pet boutique.

The competitive effect this would have on your friendly neighborhood pet boutique, and their owners who support your veterinary practice, would be devastating. Maybe Pet Boutiques could bring in Vets as partners and compete with you. Vets who handle pet supplies are ungraciously taking income from an already very difficult business. Due to your credibility, you would literally run many of them out of business. Then they won't be there to recommend your services to their many customers, much less be able to afford your services for their pets anymore. Think about it.

Steve March 1st, 2009 08:57:27 AM

I don't mind my veterinarian selling products that they can stand behind and honestly recommend because they are high quality and benefit my pets.

I do find it distasteful and a conflict of interest to see a veterinarian hawking food and products that have a high price tag but that seem very contrary to my pet's best interest. (Dry, corn-based "prescription" food for a diabetic cat?! Did you sleep through veterinary school, or is making money off cat food more important than my pet's health and well being?)

I expect my veterinarian to be a trusted advisor - I expect to be able to follow my vet's advice without second-guessing at every turn just whose interests they are looking out for. I do not begrudge my vet the need to make money, but I do expect my vet to provide advice based on what is best for my pet, not based on what has the best margin for the vet clinic. I expect my vet to send my business to someone else if that someone else can provide a product that better meets my needs than what my vet is selling.

I would like to be able to believe that vets only sell products that are safe, beneficial and high quality, unfortunately, I can't think of a single vet clinic I've been to that doesn't have Hill's junk prominiently displayed. It's disappointing to say the least.

Anlina Sheng March 5th, 2009 12:25:06 PM

<<<I do find it distasteful and a conflict of interest to see a veterinarian hawking food and products that have a high price tag but that seem very contrary to my pet's best interest. (Dry, corn-based "prescription" food for a diabetic cat?! Did you sleep through veterinary school, or is making money off cat food more important than my pet's health and well being?)>>>

THANK YOU!   And they also must have somehow missed every Biology class ever because cats are Obligate Carnivores to begin with.

UTI, Diabetes, etc., MAN-MADE diseases. And this is allowed to continue?

I've YET to see a cat or dog; whether message forums or anywhere, NOT be prescribed various drugs ALONG with this "food".  Instead of putting the animal on a healthy diet which would ELIMINATE the common health issues if we were only patient to let all the "bad stuff" leave the animal's system, they are "prescribed" the drugs which will mask what the allergens are causing to see more "immediate relief" -- only to fool people into thinking the "food" is working!  

How would this corn-filler-laden "diet" do without the drugs?  (Scary!)

TooTrusting March 6th, 2009 10:49:02 AM

Okay, I'll be honest, I find the fact that vets stock and promote food full of species-inappropriate ingredients,at all to be distasteful. Perscribing that junk to animals with conditions that make a good diet even more important just drives me insane. I've come to accept that a lot (but not all) of vets just don't have the first clue about nutrition and seem to lack the common sense to apply a little bit of logic to their knowledge of biology as it would apply to nutrition.

The whole nutrition thing does put me on my guard in general though - if a vet is willing to speak authoritativly about food and promote these inappropriate diets when everything I know leads me to conclude that they know nothing about nutrition, I have to wonder what else I am getting bad advice on. But I digress - I think pet food companies have their own agenda which is not consistent with the best interests of my pets. I want to be able to feel that my vet is on my side and not teaming up with the pet food companies to line their pockets at the expense of my pets' health. Selling junk pet food erodes credibility.

Anlina Sheng March 6th, 2009 02:58:44 PM

i have to agree with all of the opinions regarding the well-stocked Wall o' Science Diet. Nothing annoys me more than when vets recommend this crap product... and I don't just sit there and roll my eyes inwardly. I ask them about the main ingredient being corn, about the byproducts. Some vets will eventually admit that they actually feed their own pets something much higher quality. Most won't admit to it, probably because they get the crap at a discounted price. I assume.

and then you get the owners who swear by the crap, because 'my vet says that Science Diet is the best nutrition my dog needs". ya just wanna strangle them, you know?

Charity March 7th, 2009 11:33:45 PM

I am the owner of Lupine Dog Collars. I find all of the above very interesting. I would only add that nearly all of our animal hospital customers are in rural or suburban areas. As you get more rural, the customer base to support a pet store becomes harder to find (grooming and boarding kennels, too) and I think vets become the de facto "pet care center" in many towns too small to support the other businesses. Seen this way, I wouldn't say that vets who sell pet products are selling out, but are serving the unmet needs of their customers.

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