Vet P.O.V. Why this vet hates feeding pets “people food”

April 18th, 2009  

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> "People food IS pet food...and vice versa."

As it should be! Well said. One rule of thumb we tell those concerned about diet for their cancer dogs is to not feed them they wouldn't eat themselves. But as you say, this doesn't mean feed them everything you might ... like pizza and french fries. (Cancer loves carbs.)

While Jerry was on his canine cancer diet, he often got more meat than I did! And while chopping leafy greens and vegetables every night was tedious sometimes, we do attribute it to his longevity.

-Jim

tripawds.com April 18th, 2009 12:17:18 PM

I have always been annoyed with those who use the term "people food" (as if there was a field of dog food or cat food growing somewhere). Those same people can usually be found reaching for the Beneful or other such bag that's covered with pictures of ... people food.

Sue Cosby April 18th, 2009 12:20:30 PM

Well said, Dr Khuly. I have no trouble with people feeding "people food" to their animals as long as they understand the complex nutritional requirements and particularities of every species. You don't want to end up with preventable disease such as feline cardiomyopathy, which used to be quite prevalent before we understood the feline taurine requirement - an older vet told me once that he used to see a case every week, until he suddenly didn't anymore; everyone had finally got on board with feeding tinned and bagged cat food. Many kinds of which still have nutritional inadequacies and pitfalls.

brebis noire April 18th, 2009 12:50:15 PM

I've been using the term "people food" for want of a better term.  How about we coin a new term?  As my dogs have gotten healthier and now getting slimmer, when people ask what I'm doing for them, I say I'm feeding them "real" food; just like I eat (junkie people food is a real rarity in my house).  After I get into my new place, I'm going to work on the cats' diets too.

"Pet Food: Keep It RIGHT & REAL"  OK, I'm lousy at coining terms so someone come up with something better :)

PJBoosinger April 18th, 2009 01:13:46 PM

Agreed

Evet April 18th, 2009 01:14:43 PM

While I agree that people food = just food, the first and strongest image that pops into my head when I think of clients feeding their dogs "people food"...pancreatitis.

CVT April 18th, 2009 02:02:50 PM

My MIL almost flipped out the other day when I asked if her greyhound could have a carrot. Seriously. A CARROT. Apparently, since the dog has never had "people food" she's afraid it will give her diarrhea and she'd have to clean it up. While I understand that, I'm talking about a CARROT, not a big mac. My dogs eat dry dog food but also get carrots, and often a bit of whatever I didn't finish, and yes, the occasional french fry. Never, ever pork (I understand that can be especially hard on their systems), and of course no grapes/raisins/chocolate. They get pieces of apple, tomato, whatever I'm messing with usually. And none have ever had a problem with it. Heck, one of them stole and ate two raw steaks off my counter once. She didn't get dinner, but she was fine. :)

Brooke April 18th, 2009 02:23:23 PM

Among the parrot communities I follow, "people food" generally means "prepared for humans to human taste standards" while "bird food" means "prepared for birds to bird health standards".  Half of my bird's diet is a vegetable/fruit/grain/bean mix that I prepare myself from entirely organic ingredients - it's healthier than what I eat and probably costs more per pound too.  It's entirely edible by humans, I just wouldn't want to b/c it's got things mixed together like broccoli, oats, and apples.  Ick. 

zandperl April 18th, 2009 02:59:31 PM

Yay Dr. Patty!

I hope you don't get a lot of flak from other veterinarians about this.  The truth is, the main difference between "people" food and "pet" food is that most commercial pet food is made from waste  products and substances deemed unfit for human consumption.  I wrote about that here.

Barb April 18th, 2009 03:49:07 PM

We had a feline female once that was wild about cantelope and hondeydew melon.  She loved it.

Evet April 18th, 2009 06:42:00 PM

I just bought a bag of treats (Super Treats from Thrive! Foods in Roswell, Ga.), that has this on the front of the bag - "Human Tested Dog Preferred." I smiled as I picked up the bag and the store owner quickly told me that all ingredients are human food grade, and that they taste great to people, too. Since I've eaten dog treats made by various home bakers before (generally not too bad tasting, just a bit hard on the teeth), I laughed and said "Will they break my teeth?" He opened the bag, gave me one, and took one himself. It was softish, and smelled like a gingersnap (has ginger and cinnamon in it), and dang, it tasted great. A bit expensive for my dogs, who are already getting Innova and special glyco/chondroitin treats that cost a lot, but I bought a bag and ate another on the way home. (I could have stopped at several fast-food places on the way, but two of them satisfied me enough to just drive right by.) I may just keep them for myself - even though they cost way more than Nature Valley granola bars, they're probably much better for me! "People food" indeed!

KateH April 18th, 2009 06:43:18 PM

AMEN, Dr. K!!

If I had a dollar for every time I've said to a client... "there's no 'dog food' or 'people food'... there's just FOOD - and some of it is better than others."

Some pet food is high quality, processed food.  Some people food is low quality crap.  Lots of pet food is low quality, processed food.  Most people foods are fine for fido, in moderation and with consideration to the rest of the diet, and of course with a basic understanding of canine nutritional needs (and no, one does NOT need a degree in animal nutrition to feed a dog or a cat).

zandperi - great point.  My parrots eat FAR better than I do.  Regular old run-of-the-mill junk for me, all natural organic homecooked for them.

Brooke - I hear you!  I've had clients physically RECOIL when I mentioned flavouring a frozen kibble-stuffed kong with a tablespoon of Kraft Dinner.  Hmmm... 80lb dog meats 15ml of Kraft Dinner.  I think we'll live.  On the other hand, their Maltese eats "No Name" brand dog kibble, store brand canned food and Beggin' Strips.  And I'M the one on trial.

Dr. K, we've stopped using the term "people food" - for many of the reasons you mentioned in your post.  What we've found has worked best is the term "REAL food."  It's hard for a sane person to argue against feeding your pet REAL food.  We call "pet" food "processed" food, and "people" food "REAL" food.  Puts things in perspective mighty quick.

Of course, my favourite argument is the baby comparison.  If you took your new baby to the doctor's office and he handed you a sample of a "100% nutritionally complete" baby cereal and canned diet - and then instructed you that it was only "complete" if you remained true to this diet ALONE - to the exclusion of ALL fresh foods (no fruits, veggies, lean meats, grains, juices, etc) what would your reaction be?  You should try it once or twice.  The reaction from people is priceless.  It varies between coming out of a fog and bordering on insanely livid for being duped for so long.  And generally all we're advocating is some variety in the diet - fruits, veggies, lean meats - at every meal possible.

CVT - I hear what you're saying about pancreatitis, but I've known plenty of dogs who have been "people food free" who have develped pancreatitis - and some who have developed the acute form after a single Pupperoni or Beggin' Strip - or other such fatty delight.  The key is in educating clients fully and making sure they understand that the onus is on THEM to ensure that they are feeding their pet only healthy foods.  We have a handout sheet of "NO" and "Occasional" foods.  The 'NO's are obvious, the occasionals include things like citrus, tomatoes, nightshade veggies (peppers, etc), and anything likely to cause upset if fed in high quantity.  Under the NO list we also include fatty meat of any kind, particularly cooked meat.  Lean cuts only please!  We stress this as much as possible - people's first impulse is to scrape leftover plate meanderings into their pets dish.  Not only does this include the fattiest parts, it also includes all the salt and other spices they've added to their plate.  We make sure we tell them to set aside their pet's portion FIRST.

The biggest hurdle is for the veterinary profession to learn to have a bit of faith in its clients.  Some of them, admittedly, are not the brightest bulb on the tree.... and never will be.  However, don't condemn the entire lot of them for the stupidity of a few.  Have handouts, reference sheets and key talking points that all staff can be aware of and agree upon.  Not only will the lives of your patients improve, but you won't believe the references you'll get from your clients to their friends.  "No really, my vet is so open minded, he/she actually pushes REAL food!!!!"  No corporate puppets here!

Kim April 18th, 2009 06:46:51 PM

I think in part the veterinary community needs to take it's lumps for this. Not only peddling crap like Hills, but not being educated enough and motivated enough on their own to really understand real food diets, raw or not.

This IS one place where my vet accepts how I feed my pets, but not only has no advice (accept not to) or information, but does agree meat.

Lorri April 18th, 2009 07:13:05 PM

well, lost some of my post there...that last sentence should be but does agree meat should be home ground, not store bought if I am going to feed it raw.

LorriM April 18th, 2009 07:14:56 PM

Geat topic Dr. Patty!

These days human doctors and nutritionists recommend we eat a variety of foods to make sure we get a wide variety of nutrients from a wide variety of minimally processed foods, raw or cooked as appropriate. I've never seen it written or suggested that we worry about our diet being "complete and balanced" for each and every meal. What variety we eat in a day/week should do us well.

I have often wondered why veterinarians claim that a dog's  every meal should be complete and balanced by using commecially prepared dog foods. Are their nutritional needs that much more complicated than ours?

cheryl April 18th, 2009 07:16:37 PM

Shame on that french fry picture!And what is on the plate? gravy, grease?

I have Pearl on a low-fat senior Wellness, after a 3rd "diagnosed & confirmed" pancreatitis attack. I even went back to trying the reg. Wellness chicken and immediately saw a change in disposition/personality (she never vomited or had diarrhea, but soft stools).

She is 11 1/2, and just can no longer handle "any" fats.Sure, we give her fruits, veggies, no dairy either. That is really what I think of when the term "people food" is used---scraping a plate indiscriminately into a bowl.

Pocket's Story: about veterinary concern in NH

Barbara's comments & pics

Barbara A. Albright/NH April 18th, 2009 07:29:28 PM

I think if we think of what we feed our pets more in terms of what we'd feed ourselves, we would be making better choices. Healthy "people food" for ourselves means eating natural, unprocessed foods, preferably organic,so why shouldn't the same apply for our pets? I don't think that has to necessarily mean raw feeding or homecooking, there are some prepared brands of high end canned and dry pet food that contain quality ingredients. I also think more veterinarians are seeing that what they were taught by Hill's, Purina and company in vet school is not necessarily the pinnacle of good nutrition. I recently wrote an article about how to choose healthy food for your pets on my blog and I've received quite a bit of favorable feedback, which made me think there's a huge need in the pet owner community for education on this subject. I haven't figured out how to elegantly link to my article like some of you are doing in your comments, so here's the link separately: http://consciouscat.net/2009/04/04/how-to-choose-healthy-foods-for-your-pet/

Ingrid April 18th, 2009 08:35:49 PM

Ingrid: If you register, you can enter your information, including your blog's URL, so that you can always have the interested among us find your site. I'm working on making it easier to do this without forcing you to register. Consider going to the 'contact us' section and querying the tech peeps about this. Gets 'em moving quicker. 

Dr. Patty Khuly April 18th, 2009 09:34:10 PM

It is a silly distinction. If anything I tend to think of "people food" as potato chips, cookies, ketchup and other preparations that are probably not good for animals; "pet food" as kibble & canned stuff that I would never eat myself (or feed to my pets any more) and everything else as "real food".

There seems to be a big disconnect between common sense, nutrition and what many people feed their pets - in fact, common sense seems to be very much discouraged by many.

Intelligent folks, who do just fine feeding themselves and their children with a basic understanding of human nutritional needs become hysterical with worry over killing their pets if they don't feed out of a bag or a can. Sure, animals have their own nutritional needs, but how did we get the idea that they are so more complex and complicated than human dietary needs that cooking for ourselves is beneficial, but that we coudn't possibly keep our pets healthy by preparing food for them?

Yet in the same thought, people also seem to be inclined to anthropomorpize and project their own dietary needs on to their pets (in a very skewed manner) - don't the photos on the bag of cat kibble look just wonderful - skinless chicken breast, a nice big heap of veggies and freshly harvested grain. Mmm, sounds delicious and healthy, never mind that cats are carnivores. 

Overall I think it comes down to too much being blindly led by marketers (and I have to give vets their share of the blame - plenty of them push absolute garbage "food" and do a big part in increasing fear of feeding non-commercial food) and not enough thinking. For years it never even occurred to me that you could feed your pets home prepared food, but when I left home and got my own cat I did my research and really had my eyes opened.

Certainly a home prepared diet isn't for everyone, but are we really to believe that the average pet owner is so incompetent or animals so complicated that with a little understanding and direction, they can't be safely fed at home?

 

 

 

Anlina Sheng - abnormalloveofcats.com April 18th, 2009 10:51:04 PM

I think the biggest issue for the veterinary team is not that we truly believe "people food" is bad...or that pets must exclusively eat out of bags - most of us do know better. It's that pet nutrition takes a fair bit of knowledge and research, and the bulk (but certainly not all, I realize) of our clients would end up doing more harm than good if they tried to formulate their own diets, even with our guidelines. When it comes to making broad recommendations that will benefit the greatest number of pets, I still feel confident recommending commericial foods - it gets the bases covered. For those who want to go above and beyond with their veterinarian's guidance, more power to them. But I still have to convince new clients every day that heartworm prevention, dental care, regular exams, and baseline diagnostics are worth the time and expense - I'm thrilled if they'll agree to switch from Ol' Roy or BilJac to Royal Canin or Science Diet.

anna April 18th, 2009 11:21:21 PM

Anlina. Love your blog. Thanks for playing on Dolittler. 

Anna: I, too, have the same problem with many clients. But the ones who care--really care--should not be discouraged from seeking better. That's my point.

Dr. Patty Khuly April 18th, 2009 11:34:31 PM

I agree with you Dr K; if clients really care, and are willing to research and work hard to feed good food to their pets, I'm not going to discourage them.  Still, I can't help but remember clients like the one with a JRT who started having seizures, and her general health was poor.  After tons of diagnostics, the owner finally admitted she only fed hot dogs to the dog!  "But its all she'll eat!" was her reason.  Reminds me of a case I saw on Life in the ER - a toddler with really weird symptoms, and they finally realized he had scurvy - all the parents fed him was oatmeal - "It's all he'll eat" the parents said, and "Oatmeal is good for him"!  Not all people know much about nutrition for themselves.  I am so glad to see all the people on here who do care enough to research and educate themselves about nutrition.

Sassy April 19th, 2009 12:25:26 AM

   All our humans here are vegetarian, so any meat we buy is 'pet food'.  And lunch is usually me and guinea pig food.

tattooheathen April 19th, 2009 02:04:09 AM

Sassy: Yeah, I've got loads of clients who have fat or obese pets who insist that their dog or cat won't eat unless they lace the pet food with lots of home-cooking. Or change the food-type frequently. I always tell them the home cooking and the variety is great.

But WHY must they tempt a FAT pet to eat?? The lack of common sense among some pet owners shows no bounds sometimes. 

Dr. Patty Khuly April 19th, 2009 07:47:33 AM

Dr. K - you just hit on one of my BIGGEST pet peeves.  Had a client in yesterday who claimed her rott didn't "enjoy" his food.  I asked her why she thought that - Well, he doesn't always eat, or seem interested in it.  This dog is eating a top of the line, incredibly palatable, grain free all natural food that I use for TREATS when dogs come to me the first time.

I mentioned that the dog (who was easily 15lbs overweight) could most likely only benefit from showing less interest in his food, and perhaps even skipping a few meals, and suggested that since changing to a highly nutritious food the dog was actually full (the dog was previously eating a no-name brand the owner couldn't even remember the name of).

She complained about how much food she was having to throw away after coating it in gravy, stock, even chili! trying to get the dog to eat more.

Great Goodness people!!  How is it that you can look in the mirror, no matter what your weight, and ALWAYS think you could stand to lose a little here, or a little there, but when faced with a dog racing towards morbid obesity you can't help but CRAM and BEG food down his throat!!

Ok, I'm finished.  ;O)  My recommendation to her?  Cut back the kibble to less that what he was CHOOSING to eat in a day, and fill the rest with healthy leftovers (veggies, some fruit and a bit of lean meats).  Honestly, I even have a handout that quotes several studies regarding weight = longevity, including some which state that underfed animals actually outlive their properly fed counterparts.  Can you then not understand that your FAT dog is going to spend less time with you here on earth because you couldn't control the food cup?  How sad... and even sadder when it's too late to do anything about it.

Kim April 19th, 2009 10:26:48 AM

"coming out of a fog and bordering on insanely livid for being duped for so long"  The story of our lives.  We ought to be able to trust advertising and especially professionals but Mulder was right "Trust No One".  A rather sad but true state of affairs in the US, maybe everywhere.

What's the deal with Spinach?  My dogs nearly maul me to get it now.

PJBoosinger April 19th, 2009 02:35:13 PM

There are people who embrace the "people food" concept and shun the commercial diets, however some don't do enough research and can cost the pet just as much misery as a poor commercial diet.

This JAVMA article is one such documented case.

*rolls eyes* April 19th, 2009 03:09:13 PM

Oh, I agree it can go terribly wrong - but there are far more people out there feeding their KIDS inappropriately than there are feeding their pets inappropriately, and no one is suggesting a commercial kid kibble.

My most recent case was a 5 year old rott female whose owner was feeding him cooked hamburger, rice and carrots.  Every day.  Nothing else.  YIKES.

He came to see me about what supplements to give his dog, now that her rear end had become so unstable she was having trouble standing.  The vet felt she needed a full hip replacement, both sides.  I was very blunt, very honest - he had done this to his dog.  In fact, I expressed shock at the fact that the dog had made it this long and only the rear end had gone out.  I then sent him home with a list of kibbles, both for his female rott and for his new puppy - along with a list of things he could ADD to the kibble to enhance the diet. 

Ignorance doesn't always mean idiocy - it just means you don't know what you don't know until you know it.  Ignorance requires education, not a demeaning pat on the head and a bag of processed food.

Kim April 19th, 2009 04:50:27 PM

Instead of "people food" why not call it "biologically correct natural foods in healthy moderation"

Jen April 20th, 2009 01:00:24 PM

Cabbage.....my dogs love raw cabbage-it's only second in excitemnt to bones(large, raw). It does make them fart though.....

rheather April 20th, 2009 01:08:24 PM

Thanks Dr. Khuly!

I definitely agree that not every pet owner is going to do a good job feeding a home prepared diet - it does require more effort, diligence and understanding of nutrition than cracking open a can or dumpibg out a bag.

But the sheer hostility and down right lack of professionalism I hear some fellow home feeders (owners of raw fed cats primarily, since that is the group I associate with) enounter is just shocking - being told by their vets that they're crazy or stupid, that they're going to kill their cats, that they'll be surprised if their cat lives till the end of the year etc etc. And these are cat owners who come in having done their research and can demonstrate that they've educated themselves.

I've been very fortunate in that all the vets I have dealt with have been curious about what I feed but have not been at all negative. But, the general consensus in the raw feeding community I participate in is that if you feed raw food you should not tell your vet about it, side step the topic if asked and only tell your vet what you feed if you absolutely have to, because people expect to be berated & told they're harming their pet and they expect that their vet will blame any health issue on the diet & will neglect to investigate any other potential causes.

When diet creates this deep a rift between vets and pet owners, and when pet owners feel that their vet is clueless about nutrition or just towing the corporate line for the pet food companies, it's almost natural that they would start to question their expertise in other ares. No wonder you have pet owners who are resistant to accepting other recommendations (which only deepens the lack of trust and confidence, and increases vets' frustration and makes it even harder for everyone to act in the best interests of the animals.)

--

I think the fat pet issue is a whole other can of worms that is part aesthetic, part cluelessness, and part indulgence. People think fat animals are cute, they don't even realize their pet is fat (and they think animals that are a healthy weight are skinny and starved) or don't understand that obesity is unhealthy in animals and they don't know how to say no - they've been well trained by their pets to feed what the pet likes, when the pet wants, in the amount the pet wants, never mind how unhealthy it is. Sure, my cat would eat nothing but potato chips if I let her, but I have enough sense to know that just because she likes them doesn't mean they're any good for her.

Anlina Sheng - abnormalloveofcats.com April 20th, 2009 03:39:34 PM

While the rice/burger/carrot diet is probably not "complete and balanced" -- what evidence do you have that it cause the Rottweiler's hip dysplasia?

CHD is the rule, not the exception in this breed.

If the dog had been eating a diet of your liking, for what sin would you have excoriated the owner?

H. Houlahan April 20th, 2009 03:57:24 PM

Anlina has great points about the harm that can be done when a vet and a client can't "agree to disagree" about a well done homemade diet.  The client begins to withhold information, and sometimes the vet becomes so fixated on the diet that obvious things can be missed.

A couple of years ago a friend of mine had a 6 or 7 month old Doberman puppy who began vomiting and feeling really bad.  She took him immediately to the vet.  Right now, any of you reading this who are either vets/techs or who are knowledgeable about puppies (especially certain large breed pups) have included "possible obstruction" in your short list of probable diagnoses. 

But during the initial exam her vet asked her what she was feeding him, and when she answered "a raw diet" the vet immediately said the problem must be bones in his intestinal tract.  But the X-rays were normal so then the vet said it must be a bacterial infection from the raw meat.  The puppy was treated unsuccessfully for a couple of days and then died at the clinic.  Fortunately the breeder was involved at this point and demanded (and paid for) a necropsy.  That revealed a sock and part of a stuffed toy lodged in the poor dog's GI tract.  These soft things wouldn't show up on a regular X-ray.   If the vet hadn't been so single-mindedly focused on the raw diet as the cause of the trouble, the puppy probably would have been saved.

Barb April 21st, 2009 08:36:11 PM

About the blindness and feline cardiomyopathy from taurine deficiency that was all-too-common 25-30 years ago - although some of that was undoubtedly due to poor homemade "diets" (I am reluctant to call feeding a cat nothing but canned tuna a "diet") a LOT of it was seen in cats fed EXCLUSIVELY on commercial diets.  The pet food companies didn't know about the taurine requirement for cats, that's not something that shows up in a 6 week feeding trial.  As people were convinced more and more to feed their cats only "cat food", and to not let their cats roam outdoors where they could catch and eat the occasional mouse or bird, we started to see these mysterious and devastating symptoms. 

To me, the taurine debacle just illustrates the danger of feeding nothing but one brand of highly processed food.  The "experts" didn't know everything about feline (or canine) nutrition back then, and they still don't.  We may never know all the complex secrets of nutrition.  But when you feed whole, unprocessed or minimally processed foods, they contain all the "balance" that the animal requires - because that animal's ancestors developed the ability to thrive on those kinds of foods.

 

Barb April 21st, 2009 08:52:01 PM

One of my cats had a severe allergy, to the point where he chewed and scratched his scabs raw. My vets battled the allergy for months, with steroid injections, antibiotics for the infected scabs, eye ointments for the infected eyes, and a decongestant to dry up the sneezes. They also had us do the food trials, with those prescription foods. All of this cost a small fortune. Nothing helped. In addition, Mr. Teddy was significantly overweight, and the vet said that it was because he was a big orange cat, and they have a "tendency for gluttony." In desperation I went to an organic pet store and asked the clerk to recommend something for the allergy. I was handed a trial pack of raw foods. The allergy was gone in five days. I began reading about raw foods and in the process about commercial pet foods. Yes, there are good and bad commercial pet foods, but the truth is the majority of commercial pet foods are nutritionally inappropriate for our pets. As the others here have said: freshly harvested grains and healthy looking veggies. Sounds great, but inappropriate for a cat! That's what they are allergic to. That's what causes their teeth to rot. That's what causes their poop to stink because much of the lovely grains and veggies go undigested and linger in the intestine, giving feast to some lovely bacteria. Do our vets tell us about it? Hah! They have us come in for the endless steroid injections, antibiotic treatments, and eye ointments. Are they intentionally cruel? Maybe, but most probably aren't. They are simply misinformed. As Anlina said, it is suggested we not tell our vets about the r** thing (shhh!). Is this funny or what? I am also fortunate that my vets so far have not been opposed to raw foods, but are they educated about their benefits and risks? Are they recommending them for allergies instead of the useless prescription foods they sell? Why is it that we can get a better medical advice from a college drop-out clerk at an organic pet store then from our vet? Very unsettling. Oh, and Teddy lost the extra weight in a matter of a month. He doesn't even always clean his plate anymore; so much for the gluttonous orange cat theory.

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