Vet P.O.V. C-section disasters and their distastefully inadequate excuses

June 16th, 2009  

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We had one of those this week, a french bulldog that the Owner did not know she was pregnant, wasn't sure what the father was (later appeared to be a boston), thought that the day she spent panting and circling was normal, and then it was our falt that one of the puppies didn't survive because we demanded a deposit first. Also refused to allow the spay that we offered for free.

 

We fully expect to see her next year.

 

How very sad and frustrating.

Erin June 16th, 2009 10:22:04 AM

Coming from the view of the responsible breeder, I agree with everything you say. 

I have had 3 c-sections, but over carefully planned pregnancies.  I lost my Champion ROM bitch in one and it was the worst day of my life.  We had 8 healthy babies which we did find a foster mother to raise.  I am looking at her 3 year old, Champion, Group Placing son lying at my feet while I type this.  Hard to imagine not having him if it wasn't for her...  I have tried to tell backyard people who want to breed that their dog can DIE but it usually falls on deaf ears.

Holly Goldman-Craig June 16th, 2009 10:39:17 AM

Well here's the other side of the story.

Planned, responsible breeding.  Well cared for btch producing her one and only litter of very wanted puppies.  Labor started on time, hard pushing started, then stopped - 30 minutes, 1 hour.  Straight to the vet we went.

4 hours later they got "around" to the c-section - stalling in every way possible.

As they cut into our girl (yes, we were right there, and prepared with towels and basket, and yes, we paid up front) the vet said, and quote "hope we don't have a basket full of dead puppies!"  And LAUGHED.

At this point our girl is wide open, we can't leave if we wanted too.

During the 4 hour wait the vet "forgot" to tell us the hot water heater was out, and the microwave was fritzed, so out comes 4 breathing but in distress babies.  3 are already dead.  We have no heat to warm those baies up, only towels and prayers.

No heat, no water...just a full basket a a "good luck" shove out the door.  The pups core temps are around 96-97F.  We get out out of town holistic vet on the phone and between her, one mother/daughter team of determined puppy raisers, we saved 3.  And believe me we pulled out all the stops - warming box, homeopathy, massage, tubing, etc.

We complained to the clinic but got nowhere - basically a "they're just pups, they die sometimes".

Vets can be just as horrible as owners.   Annie, Doc, and Jessie - the outlaw pups too tough to die -  can testify to that.

 

 

Wendy June 16th, 2009 11:06:16 AM

I always remember the matter of fact story I heard from an excellent lab breeder who had one of the her first time bitches reject the litter. There was no foster mom to be had, so the pups were hand raised. The litter was big enough that, by the time she got done feeding and taking care of the last pup, it was time to go back to pup #1. Her husband took time off from work to spell her on puppy duties, so that they could sleep in shifts. I wished I could have recorded her stopry to play back to everyone who wants to have a litter for "the kids."

Terrie June 16th, 2009 11:19:48 AM

This may sound cruel, but I guess I don't understand why anyone would "work for an hour" to save these pups. When it's going to be even harder on the mom to care for them after her c-section, when you know how bad their lives are likely to be, coming from an ignorant breeder who will undoubtedly sell them to anyone who is willing to write her a check, when it's just going to encourage the owner to breed again (since she would make some money from the breeding), and when there's a good chance the puppies will be damaged from the prolonged lack of oxygen and the fluid in their lungs, why not just let them go?

Mary Straus June 16th, 2009 01:19:22 PM

When you give the quote for surgery, remember it's only a quote.  Then charge her additional for the "complications" and life-saving techniques you attempted to save the life of the pups.   Sometimes, suffering the loss of that lost income makes them think twice.  But sadly, only sometimes.  Oh I know, they will continue breeding so they can profit and recover the profit loss, but you are in control of how much you want to sock it to her for surgery costs.  I'd say fire this client, but she'll only find another vet to do the dirty work.

lexipup June 16th, 2009 02:01:04 PM

Fourteen years ago when I got my first purebred dog, I had dozens of people ask, well, she's a PUREBRED - of course you're going to breed her, aren't you? Um, no. Spayed at 6 months. This, a much loved, but not particularly good example of her breed. Yes, cute - but it's a cute breed. Breeding is best left to those who know what the heck they are doing.

The miracle of birth? And what do you do with those kids when "Missy" doesn't deliver and goes into distress? Not something I'd want my kids to view. Tell them to turn on the Animal Planet - you can watch baby animals being born all day long - and no mess to clean up!

Robinsdogs June 16th, 2009 03:54:00 PM

I vaguely remember my post when this blog was on earlier. Oh boy, nothing more nervewracking than an unexpected C-section even for one who is prepared for impending birth!

I had a carefully planned breeding go awry with 3 large pups, second whelping, that ended up with a mid-nite C-section. During the same week, a person I knew (sort of) had her GSD whelp and die 48 hours or so later, with a retained pup. The rest of the litter subsequently didn't survive. She happened to be a pet-owner that thought having a litter may be fun.

Me? I would have never forgiven myself. My dam had pre-natal care, preparation, x-ray, supplies on hand and a wonderful, skilled C-sect vet in the wings, incase!

Holly--I feel for you, the risks are there no matter what.

Wendy--another kind & compassionate example of professionalism and skill-NOT! It can get worse see:

Pocket's Story from NH

birthday-party left-right

xena-2nd litter whelped nat. 8 1/2 oz

alice-dam of two litters & pups shown

pocket-4 oz whelped last of 6, nat. whelping

zoey-whopping 12 1/2 oz by c-sect 2nd litter

 

Dr. Khuly: enjoy! hope you have a great time!

Barbara A. Albright/NH June 16th, 2009 05:44:16 PM

Your frustration really comes through in this post as does your passion. I think that's a pretty rare skill, and keep up the quality writing. As a cat owner I had no idea about these situations, definitely informative.

Elizabeth

Elizabeth M June 16th, 2009 07:18:12 PM

This post sooooooo resonates with me today.  We had a client show up today with his Brittany, who whelped 3 days ago.  He said that he just noticed that she seemed distressed - x-ray showed two pups still inside.  So, what does the client say? "Euthanize her, I've got other bitches that produce better, and she's stupid anyhow."  I really had to restrain myself, and I am not a violent person!  The doctor refused to euthanize.  The client grudgingly agreed to a spay (no c-section, no trying to save the pups, who were probably dead anyway).  This guy claims to be a breeder of great hunting dogs. Grrrrrrr

Sassy June 16th, 2009 08:24:17 PM

I find it hard to hide my anger at those byb who think that their Petland or ClevelandPuppydotcom dogs (almost all of whom are under 10# 'designer' mutts or ill-bred toys) should be bred because the ignorant people "want to make back their investment."  "She cost $799 plus tax, plus all these shots and stuff.  How many puppies do they normally have each time?"  Those were actual words from a client with a 4.5# Yorkie (with a true fearbiter  temperment at 3 months), and I had to excuse myself with a faked eyelash in my eye so I could leave the room before I bit their head off.  Luckily, on a subsequent visit, another client in the lobby actually asked them if they wanted to have the mom die, as her 4# Chihuahua had.  Sadly, the Yorkie owner lost their house, and gave the dog to a family member, so I don't know if she has been spayed or not.

KateH June 16th, 2009 11:49:22 PM

I can't belive the desperation of people to breed their dogs sometimes.  I have a boxer-pit mix who couldn't be spayed until closer to a year because she came to me with a nasty bacterial infection in her vagina and she was too young for the only antibiotic that the bacteria was sensitive to.

We tried to let her go through a heat cycle to clear things up and my neighbors dog took notice.  The owner had a "blue nose pit" and wanted to breed him with my dog.  When I refused and told him about all the unwanted puppies out there as well as the cost and responsibility of the litter he (and my housemates) still insisted I should breed them.  They even told me that they would take the puppies as soon as they were born and raise them (sans their mother!).

Eventually I had to keep her with me at all times because my neighbor and housemates suggested they would breed her when I wasn't home!

 

Obviously I moved.

Liz P June 17th, 2009 08:33:08 AM

I have a pair of frenchies, both rescues, and people always ask me if they're a breeding pair.

And now we have an 8 week old Spinone Italiano - we've had her for less than a week and already we've been asked 5 times if we're going to breed her.

I don't understand people.

Sarah June 17th, 2009 10:33:44 AM

Not only do I remember this post, I think it's what got me started reading Dolittler in the first place!

I'm so sorry for your recent loss, Dr. Khuly.  Take care.

Liz June 17th, 2009 10:45:44 AM

Wendy - thanks for another POV.

Deanna June 17th, 2009 01:19:43 PM

Thanks for re-posting this.  It is such a common scenario but ignorant breeders always think "it won't happen to me".

But I have also heard horror stories like Wendy's - vets who apparently believe the Animal Rights rule of "There is no such thing as a responsible breeder" and who - while they will save the bitch if at all possible - won't go out of their way to save any puppies.  Because the evil breeder should be taught a lesson.  Of course, in the meantime they have allowed the poor bitch to suffer for hours - how humane is that? 

And although I deplore ignorant people breeding dogs and all the harm they do - not only to their own bitch but also to their breed and to the unfortunate future owners of the defective puppies they produce - I do not agree that there "ought to be a law" to prevent this.  Theoretically it would be great, but in reality legislatures are simply not able to write laws that would restrict or eliminate irresponsible breeding without ALSO restricting or eliminating responsible breeders.  It seems that it shouldn't be that hard but apparently it is.  I think the core problem is simply that "you can't legislate common sense".

Barb June 17th, 2009 02:16:16 PM

Liz: Wow, you're a seriously long-term reader. This post is more than two years old! Thanks for staying with me!!

Dr. Patty Khuly June 18th, 2009 10:27:36 AM

Barb: I'll admit to some behind-the-scenes anger at the "breeders" who make no preparations for saving the life of a mother through C-section (who, reading this, wouldn't catch that gist?). But I honestly don't know anyone who won't go out of their way to save pups. Yes, it's true that we worry that the irresponsible owner of a poorly managed bitch won't take good care of the pups, either. But I think it's taking it a little far to say that we might want to punish them through pup loss. OK, maybe there are some of us like that (sociopaths in all walks of life and all that) but I don't know any--Wendy's situation notwithstanding. Hope I didn't sound defensive. 

And btw Wendy, any vet that "stalls" a C-section for 4 hours (for no legitimate reason) deserves to get taken to task. That's just wrong. One of the reasons we can justify charging so much more for an emergency C-section than for a scheduled one is because we've got to stop everything, cancel appointments and get to work--NOW! In fact, the pose of the Dr. in the post's pic is an egregious violation of how C-sections should be attended. Speed is the way to save pups. Good thing the pic is of a pyo and not of a C-section! ;-)

Dr. Patty Khuly June 18th, 2009 10:39:27 AM

I have heard that in these cases sometimes there's uncontrolled bleeding in the bitch & an emergency spay becomes necessary to save her life.

Just sayin'.

hornblower June 19th, 2009 04:41:09 PM

I've seen uteruses ripped way beyond repair where the spay at C-section is a MUST. In fact, that's how I got my Sophie Sue. *sigh*

Dr. Patty Khuly June 19th, 2009 07:05:43 PM

Frankly, Dr. K, I love your approach.  Doesn't necessarily teach them, but I would think just seeing the flummoxed look would be payback enough.

I, too, wish good laws--laws with teeth--would be implemented. There are too many homeless animals as it is.  I think backyard breeders should be stopped, once and for all.

 

Jen M.

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