So you are against tax deductions for vet expenses?

Man!  How I have wished for that!

When I spent over $16,000 over a couple of years dealing with my poor Toonces veterinary-induced, overdose -related brain damage . . .

And even since he's been gone, taking on financial responsibility for my mom's aging dogs as well as my own 4 which cost me well over $10k combined in 2008 . . . (I added it up, sigh)

I have definitely been hoping for a tax break.  Not expecting, nor ever even thinking that such legislation would actually be proposed!  But as I hand over that credit card and contemplate the interest I will be paying, I really have wished it were deductible.

Maybe in terms of the greater good this is NOT as directly useful as dedicating those funds to help low income people pay for vet care, true.

But maybe they can put that little checkbox on the tax form, like they did for the election fund:

"Check here if you would like [$x] of your refund to go to the National Petcare Fund" which helps low income American's pay for veterinary care."

We can dream.

Also, it might actually cause some people who are on the fence to opt for care they might otherwise be disinclined to purchase.  Chemo, for example, which is usually a tough decision for people.

Stefani August 10th, 2009 11:25:15 AM

A compromise: assistance, whether in the form of a tax break or subsidized care, for low to middle class (set the bar at a low end of middle class) individuals with pets adopted from a shelter or rescue organization. Because this may discourage purchases from puppy mills, BYBs and pet stores by the people most likely to go that route. Give them a financial incentive to adopt even if little Mary wants that poodle, or Dad is drooling over that Rottie. Just a thought.

Susan August 10th, 2009 12:18:37 PM

I discovered through personal experience that 7 old rescued dogs = 0 husbands; it's an inversely proprotional equation. So while I won't be wedding my pocketbook to Mr. Moneybags, I'll take the tax break and never look back.

There's a lot of conjecture in projecting the greatest good would come from subsidies for the poor. Tossing dough into an already problematic area will inevitiably grow it. For that reason I don't support uber-cheap shelter adoptions, which allows irresponsible people with no earthly idea of the commitment they SHOULD be shouldering to adopt a plaything on the cheap. As soon as there's a money issue about vet care, it's the pet who loses. As a shelter adoption manager in southesat Los Angeles, I did what I can to counsel, divert, reason ... but in the end I could only deny so many adoptions.

What cannot be unquestioned is the myriad of animals I've personally paid to heal, feed and save over the last 30 years. And I'm just one of a league of (mostly unmarried female) people who undertake the care and well-being of uncounted hapless animals. Had that money gone directly to 501c3 humane orgs it would have been deductible, but not as directly effective.

Yeah, we big-veterinary-care spenders deserve this break.

oh holland August 10th, 2009 12:32:25 PM

I'm a little concerned about the implications of writing off a pet's expenses, like a dependent's.

I treat my pets like members of my family, and I do think everyone should.  But legally, they're not; they're property.  And there are benefits to having them be property, rather than "companion animals."

Heck yeah, I would love to write off the several thousand dollars I've already spent this year on *routine* care for pets.  Let's not even count the tens of thousands we've paid over the years for one unusual problem or another. Oh yes, very much so, I'd love the opportunity to make those tax-deductible.

But I'm not sure the tradeoff is worth it.

Galadriel August 10th, 2009 12:48:41 PM

Thanks for the post.

This is why I want to be a vet. Of all the communities I've dabbled with, the veterinary community has most overwhelmingly demonstrated its committment to its mission -- animal care -- over general "me first" personal gimmes. I appreciate your eye to the bigger picture rather than just the swelling of your own paycheck.

Judging by the comments above, there are many deserving folks whose could use the help. The winners in this situation is the mid-income folks who are squeeking by and are left panting by their pets' big bills. Unfortunately, tax breaks end up favoring the rich (who may not "need" such a break) at the expense of the poor (who can't pay a big bill, tax break or no). In the end, excluding a bracket's access to benefits (rich or poor) means fewer pets getting health care. But which exclusion has the bigger impact?

I like Susan's compromise, myself.

LeAnne

dreamdvm.blogspot.com

LeAnne August 10th, 2009 01:26:02 PM

Some misspellings in my above post: *commitment *squeaking. Apologies, LeAnne

LeAnne August 10th, 2009 01:30:00 PM

LOL, oh Holland, I'm right there with ya.  That litter of kittens I rescued was a relationship death knell.  Oh well.

Stefani August 10th, 2009 01:53:19 PM

In all honesty, I can't say I'm for this.  I think it's because, while I love my pets dearly, they aren't people.  I don't believe their lives to be worth as much as human lives...although I do believe they are worth much more than any of my other "property"!  I suppose I feel that pet ownership is a luxury item - if you've got $10,000 to spend on your pet's treatment, that's great for your pet.  It may or may not be great for your short or long-term financial situation...but I don't think a decision to invest that kind of money in pet care should entitle one to a tax break.  As others have mentioned, the pet-owning poor would probably be unable to benefit from such a break as they probably wouldn't be able to afford veterinary bills of enough magnitude to qualify.  And not to sound snarky, but don't our government representatives and the IRS have bigger fish to fry than whether or not pet care should be written off?

anna August 10th, 2009 01:59:35 PM

I feed them books, I feed them shoes, I send them to school... I want the dependent deduction for each of my animals. 

Bob Jones August 10th, 2009 02:45:10 PM

Perfectly stated, Bob Jones!

oh holland August 10th, 2009 02:55:46 PM

Wow, wouldn't that be nice for a lot of folks! Hmm, should read if that is per "dependent"...after all that is what it says on the income tax for..."not children". And I have always considered my pets, my dependents.  I agree with Bob!

My wish for years was to not be forced to fund school taxes, since I have no children. Since I obviously took advantage of the public school system, 12 years would be fair...but these last 19 years have been a bonus.

Although I am in TOTAL agreement that the poor should be afforded pet care, I'd really have to think about a government mandated program.

Barb A./NH August 10th, 2009 03:37:00 PM

Is there, perhaps, a way to give tax relief to veterinarians and other animal care providers who donate time and work to (intentionally) non-profit shelters, clinics, adoption programs?  If I donate supplies, I get a deduction. If I donate a vehicle, I get a deduction. Even if I donate my old tattered blankets or bedding, I get a deduction.  However, if I donate my knowledge, experience, sweat and leisure time -- perhaps putting myself in harm's way for bites, scratches or vermin -- all I get is a good feeling and a chance to spend eternity in company of Drs. Frantisek Kral, Bill Boucher, George MacLeod and other saints  etc. in vet heaven.

Dr. Steve Dubin August 10th, 2009 05:33:16 PM

The hypocrisy is that the Congressman's political party is only proposing $2500 in tax credits for HUMANS towards purchasing health insurance.  Hmmmm??  Your pets would get more of a break than you.

I would love the tax break for my senior special needs pets since right now they are breaking the bank.  However, I would also love health coverage for myself and my significant other.

Heather August 10th, 2009 05:34:32 PM

Why do things always seem to be an all or nothing attitude?   Well this won't fix xyz, so why do it??

to me, it is a start.  It is hope.

and I don't believe that this tax break (if by some miracle it actually is passed) would equate pets with children!  just as any tax breaks people get from aging equiptment or the such makes that property any more than property.  Will it send a message that pets are more than disposable, yes I think it will. but I am under no illusions that it would elevate them up to dependants nor anything more than property.

but this bill starts the converstation that maybe a pet is more than a toaster.  That to me is a wonderful thing.

(and I really like the idea of the goverment offered bare bones healh care, can we do that too?)

Connie August 10th, 2009 05:42:53 PM

Connie: I like that too. But I'm with Heather. I believe that every penny towards pets cuts into pennies we NEED to allocate elsewhere. Nonetheless, I disagree with Heather on the tax breaks we get for human health. If you add them up, the proposals and options grant humans far more in the way of tax breaks, low-cost options and free medical services. Sure, the costs are through the roof but the care is better than animal care by a long shot.

Dr. Patty Khuly August 10th, 2009 06:00:02 PM

Looks like it's tailor-made to create backlash from non-pet-owning tax payers.

And rightly so.

Three of my dogs are "deductible."  That is, I can deduct their care as a charitable expense, as they are full-time SAR dogs.  <i>They are not pets.</i>

And even <i>that</i> pisses off some people, who have no qualms with me or a non-dog-handler teammate deducting expenses for equipment, mileage, training classes, etc.  But since "dog = pet" in their boxy little minds, the fact that the dog is the single most expensive bit of search equipment one could have doesn't register.

One of ours has incurred significant vet bills this year, both from work-related incidents.  That all comes out of our rather thin personal pockets.  The freakin' deduction is small salve after paying the expense.

H. Houlahan August 10th, 2009 06:13:13 PM

Heather, re:

"The hypocrisy is that the Congressman's political party is only proposing $2500 in tax credits for HUMANS towards purchasing health insurance. Hmmmm?? Your pets would get more of a break than you."

Already, humans can deduct medical expenses that exceed 7.5% of their adjusted gross income, and there is no limit to the deduction.

If your adjusted gross income is $65,000, for example, and your combined medical out-of-pocket expenses (including prescriptions, copays, deductibles, uncovered but medically therapeutic out of pocket expenses, transportation to the doctor, AND out of pocket premiums etc) were in excess of $4,875, you could deduct the difference between your out-of-pocket expenses and $4,875, which is 7.5% of your income.

So if you spent $10,000 on uncovered expenses, you could deduct $5,125. 

And there is no limit.

http://harborfi.typepad.com/tax/2008/10/allowable-irs-medical-expenses-tax-deduction-guidelines.html

Get all your deductions!  Because trust me, people who can far better afford to pay taxes than we can have no moral compunction about claiming everything they can.

Stefani August 10th, 2009 06:29:09 PM

Re: "every penny towards pets cuts into pennies we NEED to allocate elsewhere"

?????? Huh?

Shall we all euth our pets and give money to poor humans?

Not doing it.  My pets have proven themselves superior to at least 80% of the humans I encounter.

There are way sillier things people can deduct from their taxes than pet care.

Stefani August 10th, 2009 06:32:23 PM

My pets have much better care than I do because I have no health insurance.  My cats see the vet much more frequently than I see the dr because of cost.  Add to the fact that many providers won't see me as a "cash patient".  Veterinary care is much less expensive for what you get.  I make "too much money" to qualify for free/low cost services with a salary of $25,000 annually.  The tax credits being proposed by the Republicans are $2500 for individuals and $5000 for families.  My last attempt at seeking quotes for private insurance ranged from $700-$800 monthly for just me due to pre-existing conditions with exclusionary riders.  On the low end, you are talking at least $8000 a year in premiums.  Where am I supposed to make up that difference?  Health care premiums would be roughly what I pay in rent. 

$3500 in tax credits for petowners is a lot.  Hey, I could use it, no doubt about that.   But the majority of pet owners do not spend $3500 a year in veterinary bills.  Isn't the average somewhere near $1000?  In contrast, the tax credit proposals for human health care are far less than what the average American pays in premiums.  Families will pay an average of $17000 this year and perhaps have a credit of $5000?

I just think it's backwards.

Heather August 10th, 2009 06:37:19 PM

NO, NO, NO.  And get rid of the "dependent" deduction altogether (and mortgage, donation, health care, etc, etc).  Flat tax or graduated taxing, across the board and stop giving incentives for people to do things they can't afford in the first place.  Sales/use tax on goods; not services.  Stop creating an entire tax industry and put the money saved from simplifying the tax system into public works/infrastructure.

PJBoosinger August 10th, 2009 08:11:17 PM

<<Yeah, we big-veterinary-care spenders deserve this break.>>

that says it all to me...and since our cuurent president is spending it faster then we can make it, I'll take what ever I can get.

LorriM August 10th, 2009 08:49:08 PM

Although I also would like to be able to write off some of my veterinary expenses, I gotta say that I am more and more becoming opposed to all the complexity of our tax laws.  I believe a flat tax would be grossly unfair to middle and lower class people, but a simplified progressive tax - with a lower base rate than we have now but virtually no deductions or exemptions, just as simple as possible - is the best way not only for us taxpayers but also for our country.

If this were passed, I don't know how much it would actually increase most owner's willingness or ability to pay for veterinary expenses.  After all, they will still be out of pocket for the expenses for a year or more before either getting the refund, or not having to write as big a check to the IRS.  If they really can't afford the vet fees, they still won't be able to afford them even if they can write them off.

b August 10th, 2009 09:09:27 PM

Let's address the whole situation here - they are not talking simply about veterinary expenses.  Or at least that's certainly not how I read it.

They are talking about "qualified" expenses *such as* veterinary expenses.  Do I spend $3500 on my pets each year?  Sure I do... several times over.  Some years I've spent MUCH more than that on veterinary expenses alone.  But say I simply feed my pets, and provide them with basic veterinary care each year.  With the current two cat, three dog situation in my household, I very easily spend more than $300 a month on just my cats and dogs.  Heck, some months I may spend that on FOOD.

I live in Canada, so it's a non-issue at the moment in my household.  But let's just say that we'll be watching the situation closely and keeping our fingers crossed that Canada follows suit. 

Something to think about as well... it will certainly be more difficult for legislators to wave away the rights of cats and dogs after they've passed tax breaks that clearly express understanding of the human-animal bond.

Kim August 10th, 2009 09:18:24 PM

I hate it when a proposed benefit to animals winds up becoming a debate about them vs people ... as if letting animals wither and die will somehow help the human race.

OK, I exaggerate but chalk it up to crankiness at being in an armcast. It stinks to be hurting, whether one is human or not.

Here's a point I haven't seen made: The animals I rescue and either find homes for or induct into my own family are animals that were in -- or on their way to -- a publicly funded animal shelter. No animal that passes through my hands ever again re-enters a shelter or becomes a public burden. By saving those dozens each year, I lighten the load on public resources. If I received a tax deduction, I could do more.

Win-win.

oh holland August 10th, 2009 09:30:19 PM

Well, as a single woman without children or a house, I would love to get this deduction.   I get very few deductions, but God knows I am taxed for all the people with kids and houses so that they can take advantage of public schooling and lots of other things that are of no direct benefit to me.

As a pet owner who just lost an 18-year-old kitty to renal failure, and who spent thousands of dollars on her health care in the last two years, it sure would have helped me to have some kind of tax deduction for the massive amounts of money I spent.  But we single non-parents out here pretty much get the shaft.

Kitty August 10th, 2009 10:22:29 PM

Everybody, please remember how a "deduction" works.  If you're in a low effective tax bracket, you get less benefit from any deduction AND a deduction merely reduces the taxable income.  If you had qualified expenses of $10,000, you'd be lucky to save $100 in taxes after spending a couple of hours (minimum) putting your receipts together and filling out extra forms.

Kitty, do you rent?  Rental housing is subsidized too through numerous tax breaks and incentives which reduce the amount of rent paid and, in many jurisdictions, individuals DO get a deduction on their state tax returns for being renters.  Even so, I agree with your general premise and don't support "public"/federalized education for several reasons, this unfairness being just one of many.

PJBoosinger August 11th, 2009 02:20:11 AM

Stefani: That line was certainly not intended to be delivered the way it was. I was limiting myself to the subject of taxation in this individual context. As I stated in my post, I believe in public funding for animals. I just don't agree that it's best acheved through individual taxpayer relief for individual pets.

Dr. Patty Khuly August 11th, 2009 07:39:16 AM

Heather: This isn't a tax credit (which offsets your tax burden penny for penny), it's a deduction (which offsets your tax burden indirectly by effectively lowering your taxable income). And PJB is exactly right. You have to make a bit of money and "enjoy" a higher tax bracket to begin to deduct the amount of money I spoke of in my post.

People like me who make sizable incomes (by middle-class standards) stand to save much more than those at the lower, middle-class income brackers. According to the system's rules, that's because we pay more in taxes. Another of American life's realities when it comes to these benefits. They do favor the wealthier, those of us who hire accountants to find every possible deduction and collect and organize our receipts with the diligence of those well-trained to accept that we'll save plenty if we do so. Thus, it serves my point even more. When you consider that it's the richer that'll benefit.

And don't think for a second that I wouldn't be informing my clients of their potential savings if this passes. If it adjusts their psychology when it comes to spending more, veterinarians like me will milk it. Only makes sense.

Dr. Patty Khuly August 11th, 2009 08:30:30 AM

The problem with any tax benefit is that the govt then thinks it can control that aspect of your life. So in Britain where health care is paid for, they can tell you you are too fat or too old or the medicine is too expensive. If we take a tax credit for pets, then soon the govt will require pet "end of life" counseling in order to prevent you from spending $2000 for care for your 18 year old kitty.

Some bureaucrat will tell you the new born ferel kitty with respiratory problems is not worth saving. It dehumanizes the rest of us to relinguish these decisions. We are content to not give to the poor since we fund the govt shelter on the other side of the tracks. What used to be the domain of the church and heart are now tax and entitlement programs.

Bob Jones August 11th, 2009 09:22:46 AM

Where's our Brits/Europeans this morning?  Please tell Bob Jones how many European states, with socialized medicine, feel about end of life counseling and/or trips to Dignitas.

PJBoosinger August 11th, 2009 09:32:56 AM

PJ -- Yeah, I make "too much money" to get any deductions for being a renter.  Of course, that doesn't translate as enough money to become a homeowner!   I would welcome any deduction I could get for the money I spend on my animals; I don't go so far as to say they're "my kids", but they are my dependents and I don't want to be in a position where I'm euthanizing because I can't pay for further care.

Kitty August 11th, 2009 10:26:51 AM

I'm not British but a good friend of mine was a nurse in their healthcare system for 30 years.  She is also diabetic and a breast cancer survivor.  She has received excellent care.  Her GP wants her to lose some weight so she has consulted a nutritionist at no extra cost.  Her grandson was born 3 months prematurely with a host of problems and is now a 2 year old and doing well.  Of course the system is not perfect - no healthcare system is.  However, we need to rationally look at what needs to be changed without resorting to claims and "facts" that have no basis but conjecture. No healthcare bill here requires you to have the end of life counseling if you do not wish it. 

Had hoped this would not degenerate into a debate about the current healthcare reform; however, I felt compelled to refute some statements on this blog.  I am also in favor of a tax break for pet owners - it's about time!  If we can in essence "bribe" companies to set up shop in a certain locale for millions of dollars in tax breaks, certainly pet owners can share in the largesse.

Carol August 11th, 2009 01:12:37 PM

Not a Brit, but rather a Canuck... and I can tell you right now that as a smoker/drinker who has an obese mother that these "panels" are a cooked up boogeyman by those who live in a private system and (conveniently enough) already HAVE sufficient private insurance - or simply haven't been hit by an illness big enough to bankrupt their family.

Does my doctor harp at me every time I go in and admit that I still smoke, I still enjoy my wine, beer and spirits, still can't be bothered to exercise regularly, still don't take the supplements he has recommended for me and still enjoy fast food more days than not?  Yes, he most certainly does.  Because that's his job.  Does it affect my coverage, or is OHIP threatening to cut me off unless I cut out the vices?  Ummm... no.  In fact, the mere idea is ridiculous.

Not only am I covered for any test, procedure or treatment that my doctor recommends (and my supplemental private insurance even covers things that he doesn't like massage therapy, chiropractic adjustments and naturopath consultations) but I've never even been contacted by my provincial insurance provider.  I've never been denied anything, and in fact... I've never paid a DIME for services.  I've never even seen a bill! 

Regardless, one has nothing to do with the other.  We're talking about a deduction here, not socialized veterinary medicine.  Keep your BS train on the right track at least, ok??

Kim August 11th, 2009 10:57:37 PM

I think I have to agree with this post, and I've recently calculated that I'm going to be spending over 3K in vet care per year assuming my senior dogs don't have a major incident.  That's just for their medication, biannual exams and blood work, but that's the cost of giving them a good quality of life and I knew it when I adopted them.  I also donate money regularly to organizations that save the lives of pets, often towards vet bills for a rescue dog who needs surgery of some type.  That money is tax-deductible whenever it goes to a qualified nonprofit organization.  I think this is the best way to go, possibly establishing more organizations that help defray vet bills for pets in need, with contributors getting a tax break.

Anne August 12th, 2009 04:56:35 PM

I truly believe that a tax break for animal care is a very humane thing to do. Animals do wonders for us humans not only emotionally and mentally but physically as well. Whether we be poor or rich they are there for us and they deserve more credit than they get.They give so much substance and love to our lives and they don't even know it,sometimes they are our only reason for even wanting to be. They make us responsible not only to ourselves but to them also, they are a gift to and for us and to have a deduction for medical care and costs for something as innocent and giving as children are and need the care to keep on giving to us for us I believe is a very fair and responsible choice for them and for us.

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