Vetcetera Match.com for goats? A crash course in caprine artificial insemination

September 16th, 2009  

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Good luck!

drsteggy September 16th, 2009 11:17:05 AM

Good luck, indeed!  Hoping for a sweet and gorgeous little girl.  Or two.

 

Vicki in MIchigan September 16th, 2009 11:43:29 AM

What a very timely post, since it's goats-in-heat season!

And since I'm dealing with 5 sex-crazed does and 2 equally(if not more) sex-crazed bucks A.I. sounds so much easier-almost. It doesn't help that one doe decided she likes the younger buck best. I'm just hoping the older buck didn't notice. The Eagles Johnny-Come-Lately has been going through my head for the past two days because of it.

rheather September 16th, 2009 01:08:10 PM

Hmmmm...  I didn't expect that today.

Jen September 16th, 2009 01:40:26 PM

It' "easier"?  Sounds to me like someone wants your girl ready, willing, and able for 30 days of male enjoyment.  Gotta be a guy thing like the refusal to castrate :)  Your son asks about the sperm count at age 11?  It's genetic, it's on the Y chromosome.  There's just no other way to account for it.

Good Luck with the AI.

PJBoosinger September 16th, 2009 01:55:44 PM

I'm really excited by the idea of watching this all develop... Polaris is a looker!  I can never hear enough about the goats.

Sian September 16th, 2009 02:04:34 PM

OT: Some people out there are starting fund raisers (for animal rescue groups) that depend on the number of times Vick gets sacked (which, of course, encourages others to chunk him on his head repeatedly).  Personally, I have no objection to him getting sacked so often he loses his job.  If you want to start such a fund raiser and need the stats, here's one place you can find them in the Sck column.

PJBoosinger September 16th, 2009 02:14:41 PM

Very cool!  He is one handsome Buck!  How many straws do you need to use for each insemenation?  Do you use progesterone testing like we do in dogs for ovulation timing?  Wishing you beautiful kids for all your hard work.

Holly September 16th, 2009 03:24:53 PM

Holly: No progesterone--all based on behavior and––yes, yuck–vaginal mucus production. I have a whole chart in excel monitoring her tail flicking, mounting acceptance, presence of mucus, activity level, etc. It's so much fun--gives me an excuse to watch her carefully for 15 minutes twice a day. 

Just one straw per insemination. 

Dr. Patty Khuly September 16th, 2009 03:30:58 PM

Oy!  I'm looking for a stud buck myself.  I guess I would consider going your route if I had such niceties as an ultrasound and liquid nitrogen out in the barn.  Alas, no.

And it's dodgy getting ANY vet for small ruminants here, much less someone who wants to mess with repro tech.

At least my girls wil go together on their extended date, wherever that may be.

H. Houlahan September 16th, 2009 03:33:51 PM

IS this what reputable dog breeders do as well when AI their bitches? I always thought it a bit unnatural myself.

JenKJ September 16th, 2009 03:56:53 PM

I can just see it now.  Tulip's kid is at a party and someone asks under what sign it was born and the response is, "Pyrex, because I was a test-tube baby."

Dr. Steve Dubin September 16th, 2009 04:54:12 PM

Wow! I am excited for you Dr. K.! This will be fun. And goats milk products, almost bought a bar of local goats milk soap, even sounds heavenly!

Ok, now for the nitty gritty. TWO estrus cycles 3 weeks apart? Why is that? If she should become pregnant on the first, will the 2nd still occur? If it does, how do you know the birthing date? That would have me crazy! Is there eggs released both times?

Help me out here, I am completely ignorant about this, never had "kids" !

Barb A./NH September 16th, 2009 05:44:12 PM

Um, I take it a male kid would not be the desired outcome, so can you gender select the sperm?

And if not, what happens if she has a boy?

Stefani September 16th, 2009 06:13:28 PM

JenKJ

Most AI's involving shipping of cooled or frozen canine semen are handled at the vet's office. There are veterinarians who by training or interest specialize in repro.

It does seem unnatural, but the alternative is shipping a female in heat by plane, which is nerve wracking and stressful. Do you have all that much faith in airlines nowadays? And in summer months way to dangerous if not impossible.

All jokes about eHarmony aside, it's important to remember it's animal husbandry, and being responsible means trying to breed to appropriate, health screened matches and to try to carefully introduce new genes, which may be impossible using locally available males.

While I am all for proving that my dogs can breed naturally, I also won't settle for a male who has questionable genetics, temperament or is too closely related because I can drive to him or he is a good natural breeder. I won't put my girl on a plane when airlines are willing to strand human passengers for  12 hours on runways with no working bathrooms or food or water either. So that leaves AI, which sounds complex, but once the timing is nailed down is pretty routine.

My last litter was a natural breeding with young inexperienced two year old male and an older girl who'd "been there, done that" and thought his approached sucked. This resulted in hour of hilarity, I swear I heard Benny Hill music playing, but eventually he calmed down enough to do what needed doing. If anyone with an appropriate female is ever interested in using him, I can now assure them that he is a capable natural breeding male and they can take that into consideration if they wish to import cooled or frozen semen from him. I won't ship him anywhere either! :)

JenniferJ September 16th, 2009 06:28:15 PM

JenJK

Just reread your question, sorry if you were asking about the technical aspects. So far as they go, for chilled extended semen, the breeding is generally a vaginal AI, very straightforward, done based usually on progesterone timing which is determined with a blood test done once every 2-3 days. Takes only a few minutes and should not cause the female any discomfort whatsoever if timed and performed correctly.

Transcervical breeding with dogs is generally reserved for frozen semen. Canine frozen semen has a much shorter span of viability than than that of goats, cattle, humans, etc... so getting it past the cervix is vital for decent conception rates. 

JenniferJ September 16th, 2009 06:36:20 PM

Oh, gee.  How do you measure her "mounting acceptance?"  LOL

Stefani September 16th, 2009 08:40:59 PM

Barb: You're right, I'm taking a defeatist attitude here and assuming I'll have to inseminate her twice. I might even "miss" both times. In which case I'll probably buy five more straws. If I "miss" again, I'll be driving her in November. :-(

H.Houlahan: The only reason I'm comfortable enough to try this is because I used to work for a canine repro specialist and learned to do all my fun sperm count/morphology checks and how to use an AI gun––but it's been eight years. We'll see how well I manage.  The ultrasound, btw, is just for my personal comfort. Most goat breeders do NOT use/need this kind of equipment.

As to the liquid nitrogen tank: One can be had for $500 if you're interested. I'm borrowing the small, rechargable tank my canine repro specialist uses––probably for the price of plate of peppermint brownies. The ultrasound comes as a favor from a colleague/friend who's an internist and travels with his unit. Another plate of peppermint brownies.

Dr. Patty Khuly September 17th, 2009 06:58:22 AM

JenKJ: It IS a little unnatural. The reality is that AI is an important tool to ensure genetic diversity, as JenniferJ mentioned. It's also an animal welfare/safety issue, believe it or not.

Keeping bulls/bucks/stallions around is hard to do, which pretty much makes for a very limited local gene pool (everyone locally using the same bucks/bulls/stallions, etc.). That's how breeds were initially established. Now we can scour the entire planet for great genes.

As to welfare, the truth is that shipping is stressful. Being mounted and buck-handled isn't always nice for the doe. Bulls and stallions often hurt their mates––bucks, admittedly, do not do this so much. But I hate the idea of stressing my Tulip (and my Poppy with her absence).

Dr. Patty Khuly September 17th, 2009 07:04:46 AM

Stefani: That's where it helps to have at least two goats. The females will mount one another. Cows and ewes do this, too.

Dr. Patty Khuly September 17th, 2009 07:35:49 AM

First it's AI then cloning around...

 

I'm a clone because I love you.

Love you with all my parts.

I'm a clone because I had to be two...

Now that I'm two there's much more for you.

 

When I am offered Artificial Respiration I always ask for the real thing.

I prefer real intelligence to Artificial Intelligence

and I eat real sugar.

 

 

Bob Jones September 17th, 2009 11:04:05 AM

OOOOOhhhh...that picture is an EYE!  Seriously, I glanced at it and thought it was something else from the hind end of the goat at first!!  Considering the topic, I can be excused, right?

I. Want. Goats.  Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but I just love them.  We had a bunch on our farm growing up, and baby goats and goat milk and (sigh) goat sausage was the way to go.

Anyway, more Tulip and Poppy stories, please!

Shasta September 17th, 2009 11:28:11 AM

Shasta, You weren't the only one who had to do a double take :)

PJBoosinger September 18th, 2009 03:41:24 AM

I'm looking forward to hearing how this goes as I'm considering attempting it myself if I can overcome the obstacles (no storage, no tech that does goats, only the vaguest idea of what the hell I'm doing). AI for goats has been a common topic of discussion for us at AllThingsGoat.com so we'll definitely be keep up with your progress. It'd be great if AI became as common for goats as for cattle. And it'd save me untold headaches.

Naimhe September 21st, 2009 02:02:52 PM

Naimhe: Thanks for that link. I'm a big lurker on Nubian Talk (where no one does AI, it seems) but otherwise don't play much on the goat sites.

Update: I borrowed a speculum (to look up her reproductive tract) and we're training Tulip with it this week. Luckily, she just loves the stanchion. It means she can eat and eat and eat...

I've also ordered the semen. Very exciting!

Even more exciting: Some signs of coming into heat today. lots of tail-flicking and Poppy's trying to mount her. Stay tuned!

Dr. Patty Khuly September 23rd, 2009 12:09:35 PM

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