I've used both Fronline Plus and Revolution on my kitties and never had a single problem. 

I'm actually afraid to use the pet store stuff (Hartz, Adams, Sargents, etc) because of all the horror stories I've heard from other pet owners of reactions.  I've only known 2 people that had problems with the two products I've used, and both were some minor hair loss at the application site. 

Well 3 if you count the friend's cat that got so bent out of shape from having anything wet put on it, that it drooled and ran around the house like crazy.  But with that cat, even plain water had the same effect. lol 

I think there are too many OTC products out there that cause more harm than good and I wish there was a way to ban the selling of them.

I once tried a friend recommended 'tear stain remover' on one of my cats and it caused an eye infection.  I made extra sure none of it got in her eye but she may have rubbed it in there.  I threw the stuff away right after the vet visit.  After that I just used saline solution to keep the area as clean as I could and learned to live with the stains.  It's not like she was a show cat or anything.

cl December 20th, 2009 09:45:04 AM

Just to clarify, I didn't use both products on my kitties at the same time. 

cl December 20th, 2009 09:45:59 AM

I have had to treat chemical burns and seizures from over theh counter products.  In one case, the company agreed to pay the costs of threating two cats who became deathly ill.  Then they refused saying they needed blood work.  I had drawn blood and had the results.  They evenutally paid, but it was a fight all the way.  Those cats DID survive, however.  Had they not been in a clinic intensive care situation, they may not have made it.  This was a product LABELED FOR CATS AND USED ACCORDING TO THE DIRECTIONS.  I wont mention any brand, but I hope the makers all have their hearts in the right place...  BE AWARE, promeris and vectra for dogs have amitraz and other subsrances in their dog med that make them toxic for cats.  This is no doubt, to ekkp anyone from dividing the dog dose into smaller doses and giving it to cats, to beat the exhorbitant prices they charge,  (Why is a dose for a 130# dog only $1 more for me (about 10 cat doses) than one labeled cat dose?  You are paying more for the package than for the contents.... PITY THE TREES that are destroyed to provide the fancy packages,,,,,2B3UL

iowa vet December 20th, 2009 11:13:44 AM

I have to use flea drops on my dogs because one of them has flea allergies, in addition to other skin problems.  I use Advantix (which is sold OTC in France) for the dogs because it also protects from mosquitos; we are starting to get Leishmaniose in the area.

However, I've given up using anything on the cats and they never seem to get fleas.  Wait, I take that back.  About every 2 or 3 years, I see a tapeworm and they get wormed and flea dosed.  I'd rather wait and see.

Margot December 20th, 2009 12:04:14 PM

Sorry, I just can't help myself. 

Spelling translations for 'professional'? iowa vet comment...

over teh counter = over the counter

threating two cats = treating

wont mention = won't mention

and other subsrances = substances

to ekkp anyone = keep

to beat the exhorbitant prices they charge - if you're a vet, then aren't YOU charging the price?  Who's 'they'?

 I just have a hard time imagining taking any critter to a 'vet' that writes like that.  Online, your typing is your first impression.  Proof read my dear, before hitting submit, proof read.

cl December 20th, 2009 03:43:40 PM

Aw, there must not have been enough space to include the "glued to the crate" story!

Three months ago, I finally caved and started using some spot on for my whole brood because we didn't get a decent freeze last year and my new place is taking some time to de-bug. I hate it and I'm sure being careful with it but one dog is seriously allergic to fleas and another one mildly so.  I'm seriously considering torching the entire yard in the spring after the fence is up so at least I'll kill off most of the surface level bugs and habitat so we can start of relatively fresh.

I got Frontline from the vet for the dogs and had no idea it lasts up to 3 months if fleas are the only thing one is trying to target.  (Yes, I read every letter on and in the package :)  The first dose lasted 2 months before I saw a new flea and it was really nice.  My friends tell me it may last longer with future doses.  I'm hoping...

PJB December 20th, 2009 05:40:35 PM

Dr. Dolittler, you are exceptional in your integrity. I applaud you for your integrity and courage. After the intimidating garbage Hartz Mountain put you through it's more than admirable that you will once again speak up on this subject. I cannot thank you enough...on behalf of pet owners and our animal friends, thank you for your courage in the face of product manufacturers that aggessively attempt to shut down opinion and free speech regarding these dangerous pesticide products.

I'd like to pass along a short letter that was published by another courageous and honest veterinarian in a local newspaper: http://www.auburnpub.com/articles/2009/12/20/opinion/letters/letters01.txt

If veterinarians across the country were polled and answered courageously I'm confident that overwhelmingly they would share Dr. Stevens' opinion--cheap, over-the-counter pyrethrin based pesticide products are dangerous...and not needed.  In fact, even when applied according to directions--cat products applied to cats and dog products applied to dogs--pet injuries and deaths take place at an unacceptable level.  Simply keeping these products out of feline households is not enough to mitigate or prevent the terrible damage being done.  Terribly, dogs are being injured and killed as well as cats. 

The real shame is that this has been allowed by state and federal regulatory agencies--particularly the EPA--for far too many years.  And the product damage is getting worse:  the EPA announced in April that it had received over 44,000 reports of potential adverse incidents caused by these cheap, over-the-counter products.  And how many injuries and deaths never get reported--70%, 80%--who knows? 

The good news is that the media, the EPA, state regulatory agencies, Canada's EPA counterpart and--most importantly--the public, has gained more awareness in 2009 than any time in the past.  The greater the awareness the better for pets and families.  Frankly, the reputations of these companies--Hartz, Sergeant's, BioSpot and others--has cratered in recent years and is now lower than trial lawyers and Congress...and they've earned it. 

Thank you, again, for a great year of blogs and for your outstanding courage and integrity on this important issue. 

Rich December 20th, 2009 05:46:05 PM

We've only used Advantage purchased from our Vet.  Until another option like a magic wand comes along we don't know what to do. 

Evet December 20th, 2009 06:01:12 PM

It always bugs me to see Hartz sponsering vet conferences, when no vet I have ever worked with or for has ever recommended their products. We had to reword some of our terminology when Frontline and Advantage started showing up as OTC products in supermarkets, because before we would just say we don't recommend ANY OTC products for fleas. There of course can be reactions to ANY product, whether it is a trusted brand your vet recommends or not. But after treating way too many kitties for permethrin toxicity, I tell people to always always always read the directions and see if it is acceptable for use in cats, and that generally the cheaper the product, the more expensive it is going to be if they have a reaction to it.

Amanda, Vet Assitant in Indiana December 20th, 2009 06:04:05 PM

I have three dogs at the moment and have had cats and dogs most of my adult life. Most of them were fed conventional food - such as kibble and canned meat. Most of  them had fleas at one time or another and  required poisons to get rid of the fleas.

My current crew are now raw fed. Having gone through two summers of weird weather that has produced some fearsome flea and tick infestations that other dog owners have told me about, I can say that my three don't need any meds at all for fleas. They just don't get fleas. Riley had one tick last fall that was it. I put it down to their diet - nothing else makes sense. Their immune systems and possibly their "taste" is just not attractive to fleas. I have no scientific basis for this but I am convinced their diet is what works wonders.

Doodlemom - Andrea December 20th, 2009 06:11:16 PM

And for those using frontline or other vet recommended products be careful where you get it. Online sales can sometimes provide blackmarket product that can be ineffective at best. (or sold in other counties that have different regulations on ingredients) If you want to use a vet recommended product the best thing to do is purchase it AT your vet as well. This way it is guaranteed to work as advertised.

Tail wags, Marie http://k-9solutionsdogtraininginc.blogspot.com

Marie December 20th, 2009 08:36:49 PM

I'm also very happy to see a veterinarian who refuses to be intimidated by Hartz. I had no idea the FDA would allow a poison outlawed for use on lawns (because it's too toxic to humans) to be used directly on pets until the night my cat started going into convulsions. I gave him the correct dose of a Hartz product and he started twitching and convulsing within 15 minutes. The rep at their 1-800 number made things even worse... he claimed it was my fault and I must have bought the canine product. It was not so... even the correct products from Hartz are dangerous to our pets. Mine lived, but I have never and will never buy another Hartz product for as long as I live- not even a litterbox scoop. I just wanted to say that it doesn't even take a mistake to make these products dangerous... they can kill your pets even if used according to their instructions. 

Sarah in TX December 20th, 2009 10:54:38 PM

Over the counter flea dips, sprays, shampoos, etc are also hazardous and potentially lethal to ferrets as well--they also get fleas, so it bears mentioning.

regina December 21st, 2009 01:02:40 PM

Sarah, here's an important point: The FDA does not regulate most topicals in pets. The EPA does. The exception is Revolution, which contains selamectin, which is considered a drug. Go figure.

Dr. Patty Khuly December 22nd, 2009 07:53:52 AM

I made this very mistake many years ago. To this day I believe the warning pointing that dog products can be hazardous and even deadly to cats is not written clear enough if at all. Even on the inside product the difference between "dog" and "cat" are not written in different colors and much larger print. Before any company should complain about  consumer education concerning the care of our pets they need to address clearly on their product that hazards are present if not used properly. A small box with bright lettering on all dog flea products with a circle cat with a line through it and the word Caution would save many from this terrible experience.

Pat Madona December 22nd, 2009 08:09:10 AM

I've been in practice less than 6 months, and I've treated 3 or 4 reactions to over-the-counter flea control products, applied as directed, and probably a couple dozen flea infestations that start with "it can't be fleas, I just put on flea medicine!" Always over the counter stuff. Sigh. And yet I still get the suspicious people who think I don't recommend the OTC stuff becaue I make more money on the stuff we sell. Which, granted, I do... but then again, I make a lot more money treating those reactions than I do selling flea control! I really wish the OTC flea control products were regulated by the FDA instead of the EPA.

wikith December 22nd, 2009 08:51:36 AM

Pat, the suggestion you make would--unfortunately--be ineffective.  There are many companion animal owners that have both cats and dogs.  When the dog product is used properly and the dog potentially interacts with the cat(s) or leaves residue on bedding, carpet, etc., and the cat picks it up the ramifications can be deadly. 

The problem with these cheap over-the-counter pesticide products is the product itself.  Many, like Hartz Mountain and Sergeant's dog products contain decades old ingredients like phenothrin and cyphenothrin, synthetic pyrethroids that act as neurotoxins.  Hartz's products contain phenothrin in the volume of 85.7%, the highest in the industry.  This product was banned many years ago as a lawn insecticide because of health issues, yet--unbelievably--it's been allowed by the EPA to be used in dog flea and tick products (The EPA cancelled Hartz's cat products containing phenothrin in 2005). 

These products are pesticide neurotoxins that are meant to kill things.  Unfortunately, they have injured and killed cats and dogs in unbelievably high numbers even when used properly according to label instructions.  Many scientists believe the risks to infants, children and pregnant women are unacceptable.  There are documented cases of humans being injured by these products ingredients.  Simple icons, label revisions and warnings have been forced on the manufacturers by the EPA many times over many years.  The problem is getting worse.  Label revisions are not working.  Products containing decades old ingredients that are cheap to manufacture and distribute, yet have contributed to so many animal tragedies and family devastation--financial and emotional--should not be in the marketplace.  There are safer alternatives available today, but Hartz, Sergeant's, BioSpot and others would no longer enjoy the profit margins they are achieving...at our expense.  They defend the indefensible through obfuscation of facts, strong lobbying and relationships with the EPA and state agencies and--when they feel it is necessary--through legal threats and intimidation.  The Miami Herald and Dr. Dolittler are just one example. 

Rich December 22nd, 2009 11:40:54 AM

i have a chow mix dog who i applied over the counter (from pet store) flea product to.  I followed all instructions and he went into a terrible reaction. violent shaking, panting, and vomiting.  we immediately bathed him and did take him to the vet who said just observe.  but it was definitely that product and scary, and subsequently has been reported as causing adverse reactions including death.  it was a USDA or similar agency that put the advisory out.

amy December 23rd, 2009 02:30:40 PM

I have a cat-a beautiful long haired ragamuffin-cat who has gone through the whole thing.  She had nerve reactions to Advantage. I had a vet tell me to use the dog Advantage in smaller doses and do it every 2 weeks since the Advantage did not seem to be helping with the fleas! 

when the current flea problem started up this time we very cautiously tried Revolution from the vets along with a detox the next day. She is on a totally raw diet.  The Revolution 3days later was not keeping the fleas off her and still isn't 10 days later along with flea baths, flea combing 2-3 times a day and as of Dec 23rd the house carpets were steam cleaned as well as two days later I had boric acid put professionally on the rugs and the outside sprayed. I still pull at least 5 live fleas off her as of today every time I comb her.  I called the professional who has now told me that it takes some time for the boric acid to work but i am not sure he did it correctly.  Ok I will throw out my question----what do I do next??????

Rosalie December 28th, 2009 07:45:33 PM

Rosalie,

It would seem obvious, but did your vet identify as fleas and not mites or some other type parasite?

It would serve you and your vet both to (as well as others who propogate using dog products on cats), to brush up on the term "concentration".  While some products contain the same or similar ingredients, the CONCENTRATION of the product is not the same between dog and cat products.  It amazes me that pet owners always fail to understand this.

The fact you are giving flea baths, are you using additional flea products as you give these baths?  If so, that's your problem.  Any bath will remove some or most of the product, so the product is ineffective.  If you're using flea product bathing agents, this is only intensifying the problem, not only in ineffectiveness but toxicity to your cat as well. 

Since your cat is long-haired, this too can present a problem since most of the product will be absorbed through the skin and the long fur will still contain fleas or larvae, going undetected and untreated. I'm not suggesting you shave your cat or anything of the sort, but I would suggest a new vet, with a new exam for your kitty.

Most reputable flea products (Advantage, Frontline, Revolution) are only to be used once every 30 days, and only after the product has dried and only if there is a necessity for doing so, should bathing be done.

Why would you have a "professional" put boric acid into your home environment?  There are several effective flea control products, those mentioned above, that work when used correctly. 

What steps have you taken to address where the fleas are coming from?  There are various entry locations in your home you have to address and block entry to (windows, doors, broken screens, holes in walls, foundations, etc).

lexispup January 1st, 2010 01:32:25 PM

Dr. Khuly,

Thank you for reposting your excellent article, which brought the wrath of Hartz upon you and the Miami Herald last year.  As I mentioned previously, it's unfortunate that the Miami Herald was quick to retract your story and offered an apology without considering the facts.  The truth is, everything you said in the article was correct and there was no need to apologize for anything.

Speaking of the truth, I noticed recently that Hartz' website, www.thetruthabouthartz.com, is "temporarily unavailable."  I wouldn't be surprised if its notion of the "truth" landed it in hot water with the EPA.

I would like to pass onto you this outstanding document concerning permethrin toxicity in cats:

http://www.cve.edu.au/files/Permethrin-Intoxication-of-Cats-Biblio-SWP.pdf

It was prepared on November 28, 2009, by Stephen Page, Director of Advanced Veterinary Therapeutics at the University of Sydney:

http://www.vetsci.usyd.edu.au/about/staff/spage.shtml

Here are some excerpts from it:

"Contributing factors - To develop strategies to reduce inappropriate use of permethrin spot-on products in cats, the circumstances facilitating this error must be identified. On the basis of discussions with veterinary practitioners and reports from owners, factors that may have contributed to the erroneous application of permethrin to cats include: the availability of permethrin spot-on products through non-veterinary sources, insufficient package warnings, and similar packaging of dissimilar products. Regulatory efforts - Label improvements and post marketing surveillance described. Conclusion - It is hoped the industry, the EPA, the veterinary community, and pet owners can work together to eliminate the suffering and loss of life caused by the misuse of concentrated permethrin spot-on products on cats." p.19 (Country of Author: USA, 1999)

"The topical application of a permethrin spot-on or dip product labeled for use in dogs can lead to tremors and seizures in cats. These products, which generally contain 45% or 65% permethrin in spot-ons and 3% or more permethrin in dips, are applied to cats accidentally or by individuals who ignore the warnings on the label. In some instances, cats have developed signs of permethrin toxicosis after being in close contact with (sleeping near or grooming) a dog recently treated with a permethrin spot-on product....Other pyrethroids, including phenothrin and etofenprox, can cause a similar syndrome in cats when used at high concentrations." p.18 (Country of Author: USA, 2006)

NOTE: At the EPA's insistence, Hartz discontinued its highly concentrated phenothrin-based spot-on for cats in December 2005. Hartz was permitted to continue to distribute its highly concentrated phenothrin-based spot-on for dogs , however, to the best of my knowledge, the EPA did not require Hartz to include any additional warnings on it concerning its toxicity to cats. It should also be noted that Hartz current spot-on product for cats (which is registered to Wellmark International and is identical to Wellmark's Adams and Zodiac brand spot-ons for cats, as well as Farnam's spot-on for cats) contains a high concentration (40%) of etofenprox.

"It is the view of the authors that because of the likelihood of inappropriate use and toxicity in the non-labelled species, over-the-counter products intended for use in either dogs or cats must have a high margin of safety in all species. We argue that PSOs (permethrin spot-ons) should only be available at points of sale where veterinary advice can be provided and appropriate warnings given. As interim measures, modified labelling with more explicit warnings may reduce morbidity and mortality." p.17 (Country of Author: Australia, 2009)

That last paragraph offers a keen assessment of the problem (a worldwide phenomenon which has tragically existed for over ten years) and puts forth the most sensible risk mitigation measures that I have seen.  I have urged the EPA to consider adopting these measures as part of its risk mitigation proposal concerning all pyrethroid-based spot-on products (which include permethrin, phenothrin, cyphenothrin, and etofenprox).

I would also like to pass on to you two recent articles, which Stephen Page made me aware of:

http://www.biospotvictims.org/sdarticle2.pdf

Excerpt:

"Clearly current warnings on these products are inadequate and need to be improved. Further, we support wholeheartedly the call for the licensing authorities to take note of this problem and restrict the sale of PSO (permethrin spot-on) products to veterinary outlets, where appropriate advice can be given. Indeed we know from surveying veterinary surgeons in the UK that there is widespread support for such a measure here, as well as in Australia. Bottom line is we need action now to stop these poisonings and deaths."

http://www.biospotvictims.org/sdarticle.pdf

Excerpts:

"Many owners did not understand that 'toxic to cats' or 'do not use on cats' means that cats may die as a result of applying the product."

"It is clear from the data that many members of the public cannot grasp the concept that a drug [flea and tick product] available OTC can be safe for use on dogs but lethal when applied to cats....The high incidence of toxicity suggests that current warnings do not spell out the potentially lethal consequences of non-compliance. Finally, there is insufficient warning that secondary intoxication to cats can result from exposure to dogs treated with permethrin, through contact, mutual grooming or via grooming aids."

"Permethrin spot-on products cannot be expected to be used safely without expert consultation and advice. But even with the best of advice, these products still pose a substantial risk to feline patients because owners are human and thus prone to error. There is a substantial body of literature describing the ineffectiveness of warning labels. The latest generation of topical and systemic flea treatments (fipronil, imidacloprid, selamectin, moxidectin, lufenuron, nitenpyram) have very wide margins of safety in cats and dogs, and lend themselves to integration into a programme for flea control that addresses all stages of the flea life cycle. Our view, and that of 90% of survey respondents, is that PSO products should be scheduled as a 'prescription animal remedy' (S4) and no longer be available OTC at non-veterinary outlets."

"A similar conclusion was reached by Delhaye after assessing the (lack of) effect of label changes on PSO intoxication of cats in France. Similar experience in the USA and UK (including N Sutton, R Tiffin and C Bessant, personal communication, December 2008) suggests that changes in labelling and increased awareness of this problem are unlikely to reduce the incidence of intoxication. Despite changes to labelling in these countries, PSO intoxications continue. Indeed, the number of reported feline exposures to permethrin in the UK has increased with publicity and veterinary awareness, suggesting that cases were previously under-reported."

As you are aware, the EPA issued an Advisory last April concerning spot-on flea and tick products, and launched an investigation into the 44,000 adverse incidents that were reported in 2008.  The results of the investigation were supposed to have been released last October, but it has been delayed due to the amount of data involved and the "complex technical issues" ($$$) surrounding the issue.

Here is a recent article regarding the delay:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/01/fleatick02.html

The EPA hopes to announce the results of its investigation next month, and will also put forth a risk mitigation proposal for public comment.  The public comment period will most likely be 30 days (but I have asked them to make it 60 days.)

Information regarding the EPA's investigation and its risk mitigation proposal will be posted on the following website as soon as it is available:

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/health/flea-tick-control.html

I encourage all veterinarians and pet owners to please take advantage of the above public comment period when it is available. I would also like to publicly challenge the AVMA to submit comments to the EPA concerning this issue.

To the best of my knowledge, the last time the AVMA issued a position statement concerning permethrin toxicosis in cats was June, 2000:

http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/jun00/s060100w.asp

The AVMA's ten-year long silence on this issue has been deafening.

James January 10th, 2010 09:27:02 AM

On January 10, 2010, I sent email to the AVMA, urging them to submit comments to the EPA once the results of its investigation of spot-on products and its risk mitigation proposal are announced next month.

On January 13, 2010, I am very pleased to report that I received a response from Dr. Kristi Henderson, Assistant Director, Scientific Activities, for the AVMA. 

Here was her response:

I am glad to see others are also eagerly anticipating the EPA's release of its findings regarding this investigation. The AVMA has been engaged in this issue for several years, and reported on the EPA's April 2009 announcement of its evaluation proceedings in the May 15, 2009 JAVMA News article:

http://www.avma.org/onlnews/javma/may09/090515b.asp

We search the Federal Register daily to see if this as well as other issues of concern to the veterinary profession have been announced so that we may participate in the requests for public comment.

Thank you for sharing your information with us.

Sincerely,

Kristi Henderson, DVM

James January 15th, 2010 11:37:24 AM

James, you might also be interested to know the EPA has a public comment period in relation to evaluating/recommending/regulation of inert ingredients in pesticides.

Public Availability of Identities of Inert Ingredients in Pesticides; Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking:

http://www.regulations.gov/search/Regs/home.html#docketDetail?R=EPA-HQ-OPP-2009-0635

Comment period ends Feb 22.

Spread the word.

lexispup January 17th, 2010 01:45:53 AM

Thank you, lexispup.  I intend to submit comments on that issue before the comment period expires! 

Not only should pesticide manufacturers be required to list inert ingredients, the EPA should be required to base its residential risk assessments on the entire product formulation - NOT JUST THE TOXICITY OF THE ACTIVE INGREDIENT(S).  For example, many flea and tick products contain inert ingredients that increase dermal absorption, and heighten the toxicity of the active ingredient(s) by inhibiting the ability to metabolize them, but EPA's risk assessments do not take that into account, which greatly underestimates the risk that these products pose to children and pets.

Here is information on PBO, which is an inert ingredient that is commonly found in flea and tick products:

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/pesticides/factsheets/Piperonyl%20Butoxide.pdf

I would also like to let everyone know about a new campaign from the NRDC and Green Paws to get major retailers like Petco and Petsmart to stop selling toxic flea products:

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/gsolomon/tell_petco_petsmart_to_take_to.html

The NRDC and Green Paws are using the following video to aid in their promotion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkKD9AF-6Xs

Those interested in sending a message directly to Petco and Petsmart can do so at the following link:

http://bit.ly/grnpaws

James January 17th, 2010 01:01:14 PM

Hi Dr. Khuly,

I thought you would be interested in reading this article regarding Hartz and a lawsuit which took place earlier this year in the great state of Texas:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2010/03/hartz_mountain_court.html

Enjoy!

James March 9th, 2010 12:01:23 PM