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A veterinary blog for pet lovers, vet voyeurs and the medically curious...
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I don’t know about you but I have a bone to pick with the issue of online dog training. A dog trainer and former vet tech, Julie Bjelland Lokhandwala, is now offering live consults through her website, WebDogtrainer.com. It seems she’s found her niche for expanding the scope of her business via the Internet in ways most of us never thought possible—perhaps because it’s not.
To me, dog training online seems much akin to practicing vet medicine in the same format—it just doesn’t work. Not only is there much that can be misinterpreted when personal interaction is only available via video, but there seems something vaguely spammy about selling one-on-one dog training services through this medium.
Maybe it’s just me and my silly belief that training is as hands-on as medicine—even more so in many cases. After all, we vets can evaluate labwork and X-ray images from overseas and still practice medicine, but trainers must interact personally (it would seem), much as I have to actually feel an animal to perform a physical exam.
Via Internet, I’m not so sure that anything less than real-time video streaming of a dog-owner interaction could be both responsible and effective dog training. Even then it seems sketchy.
But what if the trainer is actually not providing “advice” in a very specific way? What if it just points owners in educational directions? In that case it sounds A-OK. But it’s not really dog training as we know it, then, is it?
Perhaps what I react to when I see sites like this is the same thing that annoys me about vet advice sites:
According to our code of ethics (not to mention the legal constraints of practicing veterinary medicine), advice should not be rendered unless a veterinarian-client-pet relationship exists (often abbreviated as VCPR). So the question is: Does the Internet provide a robust enough platform on which to base a diagnosis? If it doesn’t for vet medicine (except for very specific fields like radiology), then how can it in the case of dog training?
While vet sites offering advice in exchange for your credit card number, expiration date and security code are ready to do business with you, they’re technically illegal (which is probably why so few exist). Not so for dog training—it’s the Wild West when it comes to sit, stay and fetch.
And that brings me to the larger point of this post: Where’s the regulation in dog training? After all, most of us know that trainers can do significant harm to a dog under a variety of conditions. Why has there yet been no standard licensing body formed to regulate the actions of those who have the power to provoke fear aggression or anxiety disorders in our dogs? Why (at least) is there no consumer protection concern looking for ways to control abusive practices when it comes to charging money for services rendered in this field?
For all I know, this dog training website does a much better job of training dogs than any other option out there. I may in fact be mistaken in singling out Ms. Bjelland Lokhandwala as potentially exemplary of substandard practices in her profession. But something tells me the Internet is not the ideal way to make connections with animals—not until they learn to type coherently, anyway.
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"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
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- Mohandas Gandhi
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I recently had a behaviorist come visit my house to do a consult for us regarding one of our two dogs. She spent the vast majority of her time speaking with us, taking a full history, talking to us about our goals and gaging our current skill levels as dog handlers. She observed our two dogs interacting as we were talking, but there was nothing that she did that could not have been done via a video tape sent in of the day-to-day comings and goings of our dogs. We did some work while she was there, but her role was to guide what we were doing and give us feedback, not to actually handle the dogs herself. She never touched them except to pet them.
I have another friend who has been doing some obedience and behavior work with her dogs under the guidance of a trainer who she communicates with via email. In both her case and in my case, neither of us are dog novices by any stretch of the imagination, and I think it would be a different ball of wax if someone who was a complete and total dog newbie were to attempt a training relationship 100% remotely, but much of what dog trainers do doesn't require them to actually ever touch the dog.
I don't know anything about the trainer you mention, but there are still vast swaths of this country that have little to nothing to offer in the way of quality dog trainers or, even harder to find, qualified behaviorists. One of the reasons our dog is only now recieving the help he needs at the age of 8 is that we lived for most of his life in an extremely rural area where dogs were lucky to be let in to the house at night let alone receive any training or rehabilitation. Behavior rehab usually took place out back behind the shed. So anyone who can offer something, even if it's less than ideal, to people attempting to improve the lives of their dogs while living somewhere that would normally make in-person work impossible, more power to them.
It would be on thing if it was 'How to find a trainer' or 'Puppy Basics', maybe even 'Dog Behavior 101',but I would assume if you're looking for a dog trainer, you have a dog with personal issues of some sort.
Are you not familiar with the Parelli's and John Lyons of the world who offer similar programs to help owners train their horses? Why is this any different -- or are you horrified that those exist too? Proof and pudding and all that. (Many people have successfully turned around some very unruly 1000 beasts following these and similar programs.)
As a dog training hobbiest (hubby and I compete in dog performance events as our hobby) I'm no expert and I don't take money, but to the average pet owner, what our dogs can do is awesome. (To give you an idea, we keep lists of all the verbal and signal commands our dogs know so we don't accidentally duplicate.) I've helped more than one pet dog owner work through dog training issues via email and telephone as well as in person. A ton of questions are asked and no advice that would put them in danger or harm the animal if offered. Follow up. And ask a ton more questions. Just as you would if the person and dog were right there in front of you. And if the person really needs an expert, they get referred. (A line of questions about their "why doesn't my dog come when I call?" problem can quickly lead to the nipping problem at mealtime that the owner didn't really think was a problem. Time to call in the experts.)
I've also been the recipient of some marvelous training advice via email and phone.
Sorry, Dr. K., you're off base on this one. But I liked reading your opinion on the topic anyway. :-) Try again soon!
(Gentle correction for a bad decision, then a release, followed by positive reinforcement for staying with me -- it's all good.)
And a total agreement to you on vets dispensing training advice. I'm constantly having to tell people (I'm a training hobbyist as well) that just because their vet said to alpha roll their dog does not mean they should. I have heard some absolutely horrid (backward, bizarre, 30 years out of date) training advice given to people by vets, and I have to explain that getting training advice from your vet is like getting child-rearing advice from your doctor. I really wish more vets would just tell people, "Behavior is not my area of specialty, but I'd be happy to refer you to someone else."
I've taken a graduate level medical informatics course online, and got as much out of it as I would have a classroom. Obviously, she can't train the dog (hands on) over the internet. But if she is a credentialed trainer (I don't know if that's the case) and can listen to the owner describe the behavioral problems, and provide advice on what training techniques work best with that particular breed and issue, I don't see anything wrong with it.
As for practicing veterinary medicine over the internet -- not sure I've ever heard of that. Reminds me of the man in the commercial (for a stock brokerage I think) who has the knife in his hand and is on the phone, and the surgeon on the other end says: "Now make a 2 inch incision . . " and the guy says: "Shouldn't you be doing that?"
All the same, vet care is only as good as the vet. Just cause someones a vet you go to in person doesn't mean they even know more on a particular veterinary topic than even a layperson, sorry to say. VCPR is no guarantee.
I have no experience with vet advice sites, but I do have experience with pet owner communities devoted to specific diseases, where owners share stories and approaches for managing their pets. Specifically, www.felinediabetes.com. And I have to say that in 4 years on the feline diabetes message board, I'd guess that 75% of the owners whose pets are initially diagnosed with diabetes receive treatment plans from their vets that are FAR inferior to what the experienced people on that list would advise. Vets are still prescribing high doses of harsh humulin N; raising doses based on single spot checks; prescribing dry prescription foods; telling owners not to hometest. I have seen many a cat -- headed for trouble if not death thanks to their "VCPR" -- saved by knowledgeable laypeople (many of whom have better vets than the other 75%). They know better because they READ about feline diabetes all the time and communicate with leading veterinary experts in the field. Most vets don't.
I guess what I'm saying is -- this is a lot more of a gray thing than a black and white thing. It all depends.
I understand the frustration with vets giving training advice they're ill-equipped to provide--and that point's well taken (I share that frustration as well). But to say that vets have no place *opining* on training is an unrealistically harsh expectation of anyone who works with pets, much less for a professional who's actually been schooled in animal behavior and whose license grants her the privilege of opining on training methods as an indispensable part of her profession.
After all, we probably have more schooling in behavior than the average pet trainer--which is not to say we're better at it than they are, but still, you should give respect where it's due. Trainers have their place and their skills and vets have theirs. I don't believe there's anything in this post that contradicts this contention.
Yes, a lot of training a dog is training the owner, but once you're talking about behavioral problems, there's a whole lot more involved, and you need to be able to read a dog. I think there's too much lost in video, both in detail of expression of the dog, as well as about the environment.
I agree that training should be regulated somehow. It is one of my pet peeves too. Anyone can hang a shingle and say they are a trainer. Not everyone with an interest in the subject seeks advanced schooling in the field. I have worked hard to learn as much as I can so I can be one of the reputable and educated trainers. Living where I do I have to travel to go to seminars which isn't always easy or possible. Thankfully there are some great DVD's and books out there to supplement the seminars. (though this option is not cheap either)
When I decided to become a professional trainer (after years training my own dogs) I worked out a deal (because I couldn't afford it on my own) through my local kennel club and local shelter to get ME proper training to do the job right. I knew enough to know I didn't know quite enough to teach others. Plus I only knew the one technique I had been taught and knew there was more out there. They paid my tuition for a YEAR of hands on training with an excellent professional trainer. (over an hour commute while I had two young kids at home no less) In turn I paid them both back with time running classes for the club and training shelter dogs for a set number of years. It was win win for everyone involved. ( People considering the training field feel free to steal this idea. )
It annoys me greatly to hear trainers say I have blah blah years of experience yet they never attend seminars or continue to keep current in advancements in the field. Or they do attend seminars but only ones in the dog sport they prefer. I think trainers should be REQUIRED to learn about dog behavior as well. Not just how to get a dog to sit and etc.
All that said, there are some fantastic websites out there with great FREE info for pet owners already. Like http://www.DogStarDaily.com I think training DVD's recommended by a reputable dog training groups would be a far better resource than some stranger online touting their "product". But I suppose for some people, knowing what would be recommended might be hard to find out. (especially since to some that infamous DW show is recommended by some)
There is also a big difference between training and behavior consulting. I am a trainer that does some behavior work but knows who to refer behavior cases out too if needed. Many trainers only do straight up training. No behavior work at all. Of course I have a huge interest in behavior which helps me in this regard. To ME knowing why dogs do what they do only helps me in the field. I am puzzled why some trainers don't seem to care about or understand the link.
No matter the website or online training "expert" though, I agree that real training by a trainer, begins with the trainer seeing the dogs interactions and actions in the flesh. There are just things that need to be seen in person that cannot be replaced with over the phone or internet consults. If training over the internet were a viable and appropriate option, I'm sure it would have taken off long before now.
Interesting post.
Perhaps it is a difference between free advise and professional paid for help that is the sticky point here?
I took my cat to a veterinary behaviorist when I was unhappy with the progress that I was making on my own, and it was well worth the cost. (There aren't the same level of cat as dog training resources.) Having done that, I am much more likely to recommend that people see a veterinary behaviorist (or other graduate level trained animal behaviorist) and/or check with their vet for medical causes of behavior problems.
*This note came from a woman who is a big fan of Cesar Milan, the Dog Whisperer.
“I am so happy to have found a trainer with your heart and skill. You have the skill to teach both dog and human just like Cesar Milan, The Dog Whisperer. This site is even better because I have direct access to you. I am so happy to have found your site! You have helped me so much with my dog. Thank you thank you thank you!”
UGH!
Well since my site: www.webdogtrainer.com is the topic of this thread I thought I'd add to the discussion. It is very interesting to see the range of opinions here. I agree that there should be some more regulation for dog trainers out there. I personally was a trainer at Guide Dogs for the Blind as well as running a successful in-home dog training company for many years so I was not “just” a vet tech as mentioned. I've had a lot of experience in training and behavior. I agree with those of you that know that dog training is more about training people and once a person understands their dog better they can be more successful through the process of training. I do not think that my site is the ONLY way to train a dog. When I did personal dog training I explained during the sessions a lot of what is on this site. Many people have simple questions about their dog and can get it answered in this medium without the high cost of a trainer coming to their home. There are also a lot of people that live in areas that do not have access to in-home trainers. I don't claim to be the only resource and I would expect that if someone needed to, they could train with a professional in person. My site is like buying a dog-training book for a resource but with an added benefit that you can also ask questions to the trainer if needed. Would you also like to ban dog-training books? My goal is to help people have better lives with their dogs. I really do see it as helping people and I know that it has improved the lives of many dogs and their owners through the feedback I have gotten by the members.
Julie Bjelland Lokhandwala
www.webdogtrainer.com
It seems to me that there are so many untrained dogs that any way we can reach their owners is good.