Dolittler: The skinny on lean dog discontent

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Comments

Try having an Italian Greyhound, and see the comments you get about anorexia or not feeding your dog. :-)

Some people are just ignorant and have no intention of changing.

# Posted By JP | 2/20/08 5:05 PM

Yikes. I admire your restraint in not telling anyone to sod off.

Of course, whenever I get my Mox back from the groomers I have to remind myself he really IS the same weight as when I dropped him off and not start with extra treats. When his hair is grown out, he's quite barrel shaped - you can't tell what a trim little thing he is until he gets a haircut.

# Posted By Cindy | 2/20/08 5:28 PM

Or try having a healthy-weight Dane. Even people in my family are all over me about feeding them more. And if you ask me, two of them are borderline cases for food restriction.

Funny though, I also have an overweight Doberman with thyroid issues. We work hard on his weight, but he's still rounder than he should be. He went for CGC testing the other day and I was asked if he had a 'metabolism issue' in addition to his other issues (he's a blue Dobe). First time anyone else has ever mentioned that he's fat!

# Posted By Ingrid | 2/20/08 7:23 PM

Ha, I read this and was about to reply, "Try having a [standard] greyhound!" Even many greyhound owners are uncomfortable with the fact that, yes, the ribs should be visible. I have been asked by well-meaning greyhound owners, "Oh, so your dog just came off the track?" No, that was three years ago.

My adoption group advocates keeping the dog as close to their original racing weight as possible. I'm not sure I agree -- a dog that's run hard several times a week needs to be thinner than a moderately-exercised house pet. My vet and I are happy with my dog's weight: about 8 pounds over her racing weight.

# Posted By Liza | 2/20/08 7:32 PM

Amen to that!

I own a very healthy year and a half old male Bernese Mountain Dog on a raw diet. Berners are of course known for being overweight or under exercised. So when my tall, but slim cut (85lbs), TimberWolf goes to the dog park people consistently comment (politely) how slim and trim he is. It seems to be a constant compliment (?) we receive, along with how healthy his looks by the sheen on his coat, his energy level and the white of his teeth. I sometimes wonder if people make comments about his "trim" appearance without us knowing because it is unusual for a Berner to be slim instead of looking boxy and heavy.

# Posted By Wolfgirl | 2/20/08 9:17 PM

The flip side to this is, it's often dismaying to me how many vets see overweight pets and tell the owners "He/she is just fine". I volunteer with Great Dane rescue and - as you would expect - most of the dogs we take in are severly malnourished and emaciated. As a result, despite our attempts to educate them to the contrary, there is always a certain percentage of the kind hearted folks who adopt them who want to try to "make up" for the deprivations the dog has suffered in the past, and over feed them. We'll see the dog a year later, obese and having trouble getting up, and tactfully try to educate the owners. Then we get a triumphant call from the owner a week later saying "Well my vet says he's not too fat!" I know it's very, very difficult for a vet to tell an owner that their pet is too heavy - people usually take it very personally. But that's no excuse!

# Posted By Barb | 2/20/08 9:36 PM

I know exactly what you mean, I have two pugs that are a beautiful size and we often get comments about how they look sickly. Our vets love it and wish more pug owners were on the same page as us.

# Posted By Amanda | 2/20/08 10:24 PM

All my dogs are lean. ALL. It's so much better for their health overall, plus helps with arthritis on the old girl. But I get comments, too, that they're "skinny." And my friend had it suggested to her that she "bulk up" a perfectly lean and fit Golden for the show ring. After the dog became fat, he started winning.

Arrgghhhhhhh. I go to the shows, and I see Labradors so fat they'd have a heart attack if they actually had to work a day in the field. No wonder "ordinary" pet-lovers don't know what a healthy dog should look like, when they watch a dog show on TV and see fat show dogs.

I don't understand how people can't SEE that their pets are fat. I can see that I am fat. And I can see that my pets are not. It doesn't seem complicated to figure out to me ... although of course getting to the right weight can be, for people and pets!

# Posted By Gina Spadafori | 2/21/08 12:36 AM

I only wish I knew the secret formula for lean Chocolates. I have two--one is just a little over the ideal, the other is, well, (there's no other word for it) fat. Neither is free-fed; both get measured, timed feedings and moderate exercise (both have hip dysplasia) and I am well aware of the detrimental effects of excess weight on their hip status. My black Lab was free-fed, and lean and active until the day she died of a hemorrhagic splenic tumor. If anyone has the secret, please let me in on it--I will be forever in your debt.

# Posted By Shellie | 2/21/08 3:25 AM

As a society we are conditioned to seeing overweight pets and thinking that is 'normal'. Even as a veterinary technician, I sometimes see ideal weight animals (BCS 5/9) and think they look skinny. I'd say easily 60-70% (if not more!) of our patients are overweight or obese.

We recently started sending home report cards with our clients, and both of the doctors are hesitant to circle 'obese' under the body condition area. It can be challenging when your client is overweight as well. They've gotten better, but most of the education is still left up to me, and reinforced by their recommendation.

I'm glad we are a small practice where we have good relationships with many of our clients. I have looked them in the eye and been very polite, but frank about their dog's (or cat's) weight issue.

I consider myself an advocate for their animal, and I tell it like it is.

# Posted By Michelle Schwab | 2/21/08 7:44 AM

Dr. Patty,

How do you address overweight pets with your clients? Do you find your comments well received?

# Posted By Ingrid | 2/21/08 7:59 AM

Oh, Ingrid, that's the subject of a book. The first step is as for any twelve-step program: the client must truly face the problem. I do it first with humor (just to get in the door) then I make a list of problems I already see that are (or may be) related to the pet's heaviness. Sometimes I engage a client with measuring tapes and measuring cups (Iams sent me a freebie stash of these "kits"). I encourage them to think of it as a fun goal. In the best cases, clients have really turned their pets around. Its' these few success stories that drive me. When people connect with their pets on health, a stronger relationship with their pets *always* follows. That's the best part, for me.

But, yes, it's mostly frustrating.

# Posted By Dr. Patty Khuly | 2/21/08 8:33 AM

It's a shame more owners don't include weight control in their concern about their pet's health. I consider it my job to make sure that Alfie and Daisy are their ideal weight, because God knows they don't care! :) My mom is the same way about me - she tries to "fatten me up" because it's a way of showing love, but this proclivity is really more about her "stuff" than me, I've learned. Considering how we (meaning people in general) tend to treat our pets like children, it's not a surprise that fat pets go along with the increase in fat kids.

# Posted By Shasta | 2/21/08 9:07 AM

I suspect most people have slipped into considering pudgy-to-obese ideal simple because it is common. I also think the condition of show dogs in many breeds isn't helping.

# Posted By emily | 2/21/08 9:35 AM

I have to say, I was shocked at the weights of the coonhounds at the dog show I went to with my mom last year. My mom has never owned dogs herself and she's always on me about my dogs being too thin, and even she remarked on how chubby and out of shape they looked (and just all around no where near as handsome as my rescue boy). Out of shape! Coonhounds! These two words should never be together! And yet there they were, being evaluated as ideal standards of coonhound beauty.

Fortunately, I've got a fair bit of positive reinforcement from my vets over my dogs' weights. It's nice to finally have someone actually acknowledge that you're doing the right thing for your pet. I may not agree with them on matters of nutrition, but as far as I'm concerned I've got a lot of proof of the pudding that I at least a little bit know what I'm talking about when it comes to quality diets.

# Posted By cressida | 2/21/08 9:46 AM

The comment about the trim free-fed lab was great. Most labs I see are heavy, at least. I've got a Corgi-Lab mix ( a Corgador!), and the tendency to be overweight in labs appears to be dominant. I worry a lot about her legs and back when she gets older. Through exercise and watching how much she eats, I've got her down to about 26 pounds. At her last vet visit, I was asked how I got her weight down.
One possible culprit in the overweight dog situation might be the "recommended' amounts of food given on the dry dog food bags. Based on my dogs' weights, if I followed these recommendations, I'd have to give my dogs twice what they currently get!
Maybe it's like the old situation with shampoos. If I had followed the bottle directions to wash my hair twice, my hair would have fallen out! But I would have bought twice as much shampoo.

# Posted By Heather | 2/21/08 11:33 AM

Growing up, I had a friend whose family had a lovely borzoi, brown across her back, her tail and the top of her head, and white on the belly and under her neck. One day an officer from the MSPCA showed up saying there'd been a complaint of animal cruelty lodged against them--a neighbor had called and said they were starving their collie to death! Needless to say, once the officer saw the dog in question there was no question of cruelty any more ;-)

# Posted By regina | 2/21/08 12:28 PM

I find that my vet is very cautious about weight discussions.

When my adopted male cat went from skinny at 10.5 lbs (he's a looong cat) to 13 lbs - my vet said it wouldn't hurt for him to lose a lb. When he ballooned up to 15.5 lbs the vet said that it would be better if I could get him back to 13 lbs. I don't free feed anymore (which is what the shelter recommended), but the biggest difference is that he sleeps all day while I'm at work. His sister cat will play with him but only for a couple of minutes. He used to be the shelter 'wild child' always chasing other cats, running around and playing. We play laser chase for 10 minutes twice every evening, but its clearly not enough.

On the other hand a neighbor of mine (who is very trim) took her 22 lb cat to the same vet and was highly insulted that the vet told her that her cat was overweight. The cats now on insulin - so in the end its our pets that suffer when we don't take charge.

# Posted By 2CatMom | 2/21/08 12:50 PM

I bet it is hard for the vet to raise the issue of overweight pets when perhaps the owner is not entirely trim?

# Posted By emily | 2/21/08 1:12 PM

Every corgi I ever see is fat and kind of waddle a bit. Mine weighs about 25lbs, my vet LOVES how fit she is. She's got more energy than any other dogs WITH legs and can keep up with the best of them. She loves her frisbee and does well for once again, a dog with no legs.

As for Sophie, she doesn't look sickly. She just looks like an aged gal.

# Posted By ashleigh | 2/21/08 1:26 PM

I have an obese cat, a once correct weight dog adjusting to a less active life (pain from arthritis due to early neglect is limiting her activity levels in her old age and she had to change to a urinary/kidney diet so she gained a little weight that she is now slowly loosing) and a just-about perfect weight dog (he needs to gain about a pound of muscle in one leg to make it even with the other - we are on a hill walking routine to fix this.) One thing I realize is that while I know what too fat looks like, I really don't have a good idea of what a little too thin looks like. The Hills diagrams are not that useful. Some photos of dogs that are a little too thin versus at a healthy weight would be a really great resource.

# Posted By Juli | 2/21/08 1:31 PM

This is a tremendous source of frustration for me. Pit bulls are supposed to be ginormous, you know. My 45 pound bitch whose last couple ribs are slightly visible is clearly being starved to death (and she would agree!). I've even had a vet tell me that she's too skinny. Pffft. She looks fantastic. My old dog could perhaps use another pound or two, but I'd much rather him be a little too thin than a little too fat. Especially since he's got some arthritis.

# Posted By katie | 2/21/08 1:53 PM

One of the funniest conversations I ever had was when I was walking my relatively small and extremely trim 4 yo beagle and passed a man getting out of his parked car. He admired my dog and asked what he was. I told him it was a beagle and he seemed rather astonished. Then he said, "well, he's just a puppy, right?" I said "no, he's about 4". The man seemed just amazed. Then he told me that he has a 1 year old beagle named Daisy, and would I like to meet her? Of course I said yes, so he opened the back door of his car (heavily shaded windows meant I hadn't seen inside), and there was his immensely obese beagle.

It cracked me up that his idea of what a beagle looked like was so warped that he could not even recognize my dog as being a beagle! (and of course I just admired poor Daisy and couldn't think of any way to say, wow, she's about 3 times the weight she should be!)

It is sad to see so many overweight and obese pets. Obviously some of them have health problems that make maintaining a good weight difficult. But I don't think that's the case with most!

# Posted By Sarah | 2/21/08 2:06 PM

Lest I get into trouble discussing human-animal-bond obesity again, I'll just mention that it makes no difference to me whether an obese owner is presenting an obese pet. They get the same speech. It's true, I used to think about being more cautious in these cases, but in the end, I'm more worried that doing so might amount to unequal treatment. Nope, they all get the same speal. (Although some who already understand the problem well and acknowledge their inability to change their pet's weight do inevitably end up getting fewer speeches, I'll admit).

# Posted By Dr. Patty Khuly | 2/21/08 3:28 PM

It's hard to know when a dog is just lean, or skinny. Or when it's healthy or overweight. At least for me. I like a dog with a little meat on his bones, but then I worry that my dog has too much meat on her bones. Shouldn't there be some part of this discussion that mentions exercise and activity? I want to do what's right...but I don't know what that is. My dog is a shepard-lab, she's 14, and we do walk her every day, but not much else. She weighs 70 lbs.

# Posted By Yvonne DiVita | 2/21/08 3:51 PM

I had to laught when I saw Cindy's post about returning from the groomer. I have the opposite problem! I had to keep reminding myself after the last bath that the dogs had not gotten obese in two hours, their winter coats were just standing on end. I have to agree with everyone that lots of people are just not used to seeing a 'healthy' weight dog. Particularly if most of their exposure to some breeds is from watching dog shows on TV. I know this is a partuclar problem for me, because I'm primarily into performance, agility mostly right now, and I've got my boy nice and lean. Yup, he looks scrawny next to all the other dogs when we walk into the breed ring, but I'm not going to stress his joints by packing pounds on him just to please a judge (who may not have a realistic idea of a lean weight for a Cardigan is either).

# Posted By Cardimom | 2/21/08 4:22 PM

I've noticed that some clients (strange enough) are more willing to manage their pet's weight if the doctor puts together a complicated "diet" for them - i.e., feed exactly this amount of this particular food X times per day, along with X minutes of brisk walking, etc., etc. Even better if the doctor recommends a "special" (read: calorie control) food, Slentrol, thyroid testing, etc. (although I do realize the value of these methods/treatments in certain pets, I'm talking about just your plain-jane, free-fed glutton of a lab/schnauzer/rottweiler, etc.) It seems nobody takes the "feed less, exercise more" mantra to heart. Q: "I don't understand why he's so fat!" A: "You're overfeeding - period. FEED LESS, exercise more. I promise you it works" (for the otherwise healthy pet). I guess for the same reason people (including myself) would rather turn to extreme diets, diet pills, fat-blockers, etc., than just plain old cardio and calorie reduction. :) Drives me bonkers.

# Posted By anna | 2/21/08 4:25 PM

I don't think it matters whether the human is overweight or not. It only matters how the human feels about weight issues.

Hey I could stand to lose 15 pounds, but my doc says I'm doing OK. Guess he sees a lot worse. But I actually wish he would kick my butt about this more.

Maybe that's why I'm really trying with the 15 lb cat. I don't want him to become diabetic or suffer any other health issues. My other cat owning friends (some thin, some heavy) think I fuss too much about it. And of course, I wish my vet would say something alarming - because that would be more motivating for me.

I think you can tell that I am open to negative feedback - where health is concerned anyway. But lots of people don't want to hear the bad news. So doctors, human or animal become conditioned to hold back on comments so not to alienate their patients.

# Posted By 2CatMom | 2/21/08 5:21 PM

I get this all too often.. walking my 135 pound *female* great dane, people often ask "are they supposed to be that skinny?" Ugh.. yes, they are supposed to have a waist.

# Posted By Ali | 2/21/08 7:08 PM

Doesn’t obesity/overweight in dogs increase their cancer risk tremendously – comparable with the increased risk in humans with smoking?

I've never had anyone say anything about my dogs (they are both slim) but in the past I've copped comments about a lean, fit horse and more recently some of my husband's relatives have more or less accused me of starving him. He's lightly built and lean and fit with it - and an he's an adult who is perfectly capable of feeding himself even if his wife does neglect him!

I wonder if women dog owners are more likely to draw this criticism than male dog owners?

# Posted By Alison | 2/21/08 8:53 PM

When I am talking to clients about their pet's weight, I do not alter what I say based upon the owner's weight. I do try to be more sensitive not to say something like "We all know the negative effects of carrying extra weight...." or something to that effect.

In response to anna's comment about clients in general not understanding why their pet is too heavy:
I can't tell you how many times have I heard,

"Oh, it's winter and he's less active; he'll lose it all in the summer!"
Maybe a pound or two, but I doubt the 120# lab slims down to 70# in the summer.

"He really doesn't seem to overeat."
Meanwhile I could set a drink on his dog's coffee table back.

Etc. Etc.

I know the challenges of having overweight animals. I have (2) 14# cats. They drive me BONKERS when it's time for their meals (I feed them three times a day). I'm seeing progress though, and it's worth all their early morning squawkings and prancing on my chest in anticipation of their next meal! :)

# Posted By Michelle Schwab | 2/22/08 7:59 AM

I think some of the Hills Diet petfit program stuff is quite good. It does things like show what 'human food' snacks are equivalent to for a small dog where one cookie for us is more like a whole pack for them. They also have vets appointment cards with a prompt to 'ask about scheduling a weight exam' to talk specifically about weight and make a plan and a bunch of other more usual stuff like the 1-5 scale..

# Posted By emily | 2/22/08 9:59 AM

the first time I had a Saluki scheduled with me at the salon, i didnt know what to expect. when i went over to the PetsHotel to pick him up, i fell madly in love with the breed. he was gorgeous! Salukis are extremely slender, even less to them than greyhounds. well, apparently i was the only one who thought he was breathtaking. i got a billion comments just walking him from the hotel to the grooming salon. the comments ranged from "thats the ugliest dog i've ever seen" to "is it abused?" and "that dog looks like a freak show, you should call Animal Control!"

people are sooo cruel.

I also have a strong love for Chinese Cresteds... every single one that is groomed by my salon is groomed by me. you haven't lived til you get a crowd of people surrounding the window into the salon, pointing and making faces at a show Crested, all of them tapping the glass and sucking their cheeks in and mouthing "she's so SKINNY!"

i wonder how these people would feel if i went to their work and stared at them all day?

# Posted By charity | 2/22/08 12:34 PM

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