Vet Stress On sick pups, poor owners and veterinary stress

March 21st, 2008  

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How very sad. For the girls, the pup, and (maybe) the Mom who didn't know what to do.

This might be a good application for your web site. I'm not rolling in dough right now, but I'd surely throw a few bucks towards a sad pup that needs help. I don't know how wide your readership is, but at least most of the folks I've read about in the comments I think would do the same.

I don't....maybe other commenters should post their opinions. One the one hand I trust the $'s would go to good use / cause in your hands. On the other hand those Pedigree ads with David Duchovny that promise they'll rescue a sad pound puppy if you only buy their crappy food make me kind of ill.

If you could find pet companies you're ethically comfortable with, I bet you could convince them to do a 'matching' program for some mention on your site. (matching your time donations and the site visitors $ ones).

- Larry

(can you tell my degree /career was in marketing? In every problem I see a marketing solution. ;-) )

Larry March 21st, 2008 10:45:00 AM

I think the big reason why there is such an outcry when the public hears of a vet that will not treat for free (or credit) is that the general public has no idea just how many pet owners come through the doors or your average hospital begging for charity. If my hospital gave in to every request for a payment plan, discounted service, or free treatment we would have to close our doors. We seriously get at least 1-2 requests PER DAY for treatment with no funds. As it is, our accounts receivable is in the 6-figure region now because of all the cases we did allow a payment plan. That money could have paid a years salary for 2-3 new employees, bought new equipment, or given raises for the rest of the staff. Instead, we spend time and money hunting these people down trying to collect.

Meghan RAHT March 21st, 2008 12:11:00 PM

Two puppies and $32 to their name? Brilliant.

Do you sometimes feel like you're an enabler?

We had this client with an AIHA dog and no money, so we did all this stuff at little to no cost, and the dog made it. Dog is fine now. And now they have a brand new kitten that they can't afford. They think that we should make all kinds of arrangements to help them out. (This was a kitten they sought out, btw, not one they found or that just arrived.) It's very frustrating.

katie March 21st, 2008 12:19:00 PM

Katie: Enabler. Yes. But it often comes down to the pet oulling our heartstrings all out of joint. We try to overlook the owners (who usually don't help their cases with their grumbling and vets suck mantra) but it's never the animal's fault, right?

Dr. Patty Khuly March 21st, 2008 12:49:00 PM

Wow, that is heartbreaking.

So, I am assuming you guys know about IMOM -- they are probably stretched to the limit and it takes time to get processed by them.

But maybe -- thinking in terms of solutions here -- someone should start a charity that VETS could tap into to get some payment for cases like this -- cases they WANT to take, but that are going to be very expensive.

This way, it would come through the vet which would hopefully expedite approval and payment. Because the charities like IMOM make people send tax returns and pay stubs etc and this takes time. If vets see so many cases like this -- then there should be a charity to help deal with this.

Is there one? If not -- although I am in no position to start one myself and I think vets should start it -- I will happily contribute to it. (I used to give to IMOM all the time ,but they have gone downhill).

Stefani March 21st, 2008 01:52:00 PM

> the general public has no idea just how many pet owners come through the doors or your average hospital begging for charity

Wow, Meghan, I certainly had no idea it was that many. I was taking it as a "special case" since I saw the blog post, but I had no idea so many people just wander in and expect free or really cheap services.

I guess some people are just either dumb or stubborn enough not to realize when they get a pet it is a responsibility too. With financial consequences, duh.

Sometimes I understand why you guys became vets. I like animals better than people.

Larry March 21st, 2008 03:54:00 PM

Argh! I could just scream at those owners who think it's OK to walk away from the bills... or whatever it is that they're thinking, *if* there's thought involved.
I'd be nowhere without the kindness and risk-taking of half a dozen vets over the years. For example, my one remaining senior dog wouldn't be here - I paid for her $1000-worth of reconstructive hind leg surgery (HBC, punctured joint capsule, a gash from toe to hip, smashed hock joint) with a series of postdated checks, back in my college days, and the vet was kind enough, and trusting enough, to let me do it... and so my dog is here with me, 11 years later and still with 4 working legs.

But I worry that if enough people take advantage of vets, this scenario will become a thing of the past!

Stacey March 21st, 2008 09:47:00 PM

Larry- Exactly my point!

Meghan RAHT March 21st, 2008 10:44:00 PM

Stacey: It IS a thing of the past. Very few vets will do it. And the ones who do *expect* to be burned 90% of the time.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 22nd, 2008 06:42:00 AM

Sadly I expect the situation to worsen as more people lose jobs and face rising staple costs. Not all poor people with pets were poor when they started out, to be fair.
Not that it's the vet's place to have to run a charity operation, it's just a sad situation all the way around.

vida March 22nd, 2008 07:21:00 AM

I know that poor people will always have pets but I do not believe that is an acceptable explanation. How about some public education with regard to how expensive it is to properly care for a pet? To me animals and children are a privilege NOT a right and one that shouldn't be undertaken lightly. It sounds harsh but the truth is that there are things that people with money can have that people without money can not.

Jules March 22nd, 2008 03:59:00 PM

Dr Khuly,
Can you elaborate a little on the case with $2000 in written off supplies?
Do you mean you are giving away supplies that you purchased from
your supplier at $2000, or that the invoice price of the supplies is $2000?
Don't get me wrong, a free in house case is very serious as it must drain
tons of time away from your actual paying clients, but supplies-? IV
fluids and catheters daily run $5 to $20 wholesale, meds are usually
$0.05 to $2.00 per dose unless it's something fancy, so what am I
missing here?
------------

eli March 23rd, 2008 02:54:00 AM

I don't think vets should do a lot of free work like this. Maybe for certain special cases but this doesn't sound like one. In the end it just causes vets to raise prices for everyone else and to cling to the controversial revenue streams like vaccines and such. (not referring to you, just in general I think it is dangerous to do free work).


As far as emergency clinics, the price at SOME emergency clinics is clearly based on revenue maximization. It is not based on a model of how much
time and supplies are worth.
To understand, here is an example. Let us suppose an e-clinic is looking at setting the average price of an operation for something like an obstruction. Further suppose ten clients come in per month needing the procedure, and on average, a certain number will have to decline treatment based on price, either opting for euthanasia or other alternative generating nominal revenue.

Price operations decline treatment/or euthanasia revenue
$1000 10 0 $10000
$1500 9 1 $13500
$2000 8 3 $16000
$2500 7 4 $17500
$3000 6 4 $18000
$3500 4 6 $14000

In this fictional example, the clinic would likely decide that optimal price is to be $2500. The actual price for something like emergency abdominal surgery is really set this way, whether consciously or not. As a bonus, the optimal price might reduce staffing needs, because a certain number of procedures are declined, yet money is not sacrificed. This type of optimization does not apply to regular hours vets, because regular hours vets do not usually have down time if they opt not to do something, as might be the case in the
e-clinic.

eli March 23rd, 2008 03:29:00 AM

Running a 24 hour clinic such as the emergency specialities is a whole different ball game and their overhead costs are something few people understand or appreciate. I am thankful for their services, equipment, blood available for transfusion etc. and don't mind paying whatever they deem necessary.

Jules March 23rd, 2008 10:23:00 AM

Eli, do vets really do that kind of cost-analysis: i.e., the price point at which a certain number of owners will euth vs treat and decidign what an acceptable breakout is?

Stefani March 24th, 2008 10:22:00 AM

Eli: If you go to any business school in the country (you may have from the sound of it) they'll always teach pricing at what the market will bear. Marketing coursework will show you how to achieve that airline-seat style (more for those with needs that designate a willingness to pay more). Does healthcare require a different set of ethics than the aviation industry? Certainly. But the 2x markup isn't set in stone nor should it be--there are too many other factors to consider.

Stefani: Nope. That kind of analysis isn't done. It's the rough-guess-and-hope-it-works alternative for most of vets in the country. Looking at local pricing provides the basics and vets will set their price points based on how they compete with the local market.

Dr. Patty Khuly March 24th, 2008 11:19:00 AM

Larry, that was a nice thought to get people to donate for this particular situation. Even better though is to ask your vet if he has an "indigent" pet fund for folks who can't pay bills and donate to it. It would be nice if they'd put one of those donation cans at the counter. I'd say most people would toss in a couple of bucks when they were checking out. It would hardly cover what was needed of course, but would contribute something and perhaps raise interest in the issue.

CathyA March 25th, 2008 08:55:00 AM

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