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A veterinary blog for pet lovers, vet voyeurs and the medically curious...
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Increasingly, the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) is taking stands on animal welfare issues and I, for one, am gratified to see our professional organization acting in ways I believe are consistent with our larger mission as animal health professionals.
But safeguarding animal health and welfare doesn’t stop with household pets like dogs and cats, of course. One area in which the AVMA has held sway in recent weeks is in the issue brought about by those who would keep non-human primate keepers.
No, not the lab animal or zoo folks. These legitimate license-holders are exempt from the AVMA’s scrutiny on this one. Last month’s testimony to the House Committee of Natural Resources by Gail Golab of the AVMA (beside none other than primatologist and cultural icon Jane Goodall) was in support of a bill called the Captive Primate Safety Act (H.R. 2964).
The bill seeks to limit primate captivity to legitimate licensees, closing loopholes that allow private citizens to keep monkeys and other primates as pets. Citing human safety, animal welfare concerns and habitat destruction, among other issues, Steve Ross of the Association of Zoos and Aquariums explained that the bill “takes aim at the increase in the number of unregulated and untrained individuals who are maintaining non-human primates as personal pets.”
And it’s about time we did something about it. The trade in primates is alive and well in South Florida. Released primates (often spider monkeys) wind their way through our neighborhoods occasionally. Lemurs and Capucin monkeys dangle off arms at the Starbucks (and I can’t even bring my dog inside!).
Monkeys are often quite docile—until they’re not. Then it’s 120 stitches. Monkeys are often healthy—until they’re found to have infected you with a deadly strain of herpes virus. Monkeys are often sold as captive-bred—though a good many traders are unscrupulous and untrustworthy on this front.
I grew up hearing stories of my mother’s six monkeys in Cuba. And I longed for one like you have no idea. Gradually, I grew accustomed to the fact that moving to the US conferred certain benefits, among them the understanding that non-human primates are wild animals who belong as far away from humans as possible…whenever possible.
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"The greatness of a nation can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
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- Mohandas Gandhi
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When my mom was a kid her Grandma bought her a monkey (when they lived in Florida!) and she remembers it throwing tantrums and lots of poop. I had no idea that people could still buy them or why people want to have wild animals as pets. They don't know how to take care of them...and the animals are miserable and often dangerous. It's ridiculous considering the thousands upon thousands of domestic animals desperately needing homes.
I think my Mother cured me of that longing by pointing out that they all wore diapers and never grew out of them!
I'm sure there are very few qualified for the role of exotic caregiver, but let's face it, some people are not capable of properly taking care of a dog or cat. However, it is entirely possible for the *right* person to keep an exotic animal (non-human primates included), and to keep that animal healthy and happy, and to provide a clean safe environment with much enrichment.
I do not own a monkey but I do know of many monkey owners who treat their "pets" as family members and these monkeys are often happier and better provided for than many, many HUMAN children!
But is it really an "increasing" problem?
That's one phrase that I've learned to view with skepticism, particularly when linked to a legislative initiative or the local ratings sweeps week.
Growing up in Ohio in the 70's, I knew a number of people with spider monkeys or other small primates as pets. Worked in a terrible little pet store that sold a few. They were regularly advertised in the classifieds. I wouldn't call monkeys "common" pets back then, but they were regarded as perhaps no weirder than a large parrot or a ferret.
Dunno about South Florida, but I haven't seen nor heard of a pet monkey in over 20 years, and I sure haven't seen any offered for sale. It seems that most people have wised up about primates as "pets."
Just one horrible Animal Planet show -- "That's My Baby" or something like that -- promoting a monkey-miller who would breed them, take them from their mothers as tiny cute infants, and sell them to people to be stuffed into little frilly dresses and wear diapers and serve as disposable hard-biting identity-conflicted baby surrogates. I was, and remain, aghast.
I would, indeed, pitch a hizzy if I saw some yuppie in a coffee shop with a monkey when my dog wasn't allowed. And by pitch a hizzy, I mean up to and including calling the police and the health department.
Require strict laws to own an exotic? Sure. I think Florida, from what I've seen, has the best laws in place- from what I understand, they require animal husbandry classes to be taken by exotic animal keepers. Require knowledge of the animal and the proper environment, including enrichment? Sure- but then again, I expect those same laws to be enforced in ZOOS and other places exotics are kept (and they aren't always enforced- we've all seen zoos that neglect their animals just like owners neglect their dogs and cats).
Primates are difficult keepers. I don't think the local zoo here should be allowed to keep them- as is- because they don't provide enough enrichment for them. I know of a woman who worked as the primary Primate Keeper at our local zoo and no matter what she recommended, they refused to do anything to add to their animals' lives in a positive manner. However, just because one zoo doesn't care properly for their animals doesn't mean NO zoos should house primates. Just because some exotic owners don't care for their exotics properly doesn't mean NO exotics should be owned. Just because some dog and cat owners don't care for their domestics doesn't mean NO dogs and cats should be owned. (Owned- what a subjective term! Most of the 'owners' I know would say- it's the other way around- they are owned by their critters).
I've owned 2 macaques for close to 13 years, well past the cute baby stage- intact adults with minds of their own. They don't wear diapers although I fail to see why that is an issue unless you are the one required to change them. It's called containment and I don't believe you would let a 1 year old run around daiperless either. One of mine will not 'go' on you for anything, the other could care less where he goes. It's all cleaned up regardless. Because someone else doesn't want to or have the passion to keep a primate doesn't mean others should not be allowed. I don't tell anyone to have a monkey but some seem intent on telling me NOT to. If I tell you not to have a dog- would you feel offended? You HAVE to eat meat, would you be offended? The ones that it is their JOB- ya know what? They get paid to do what I do willingly and for free, my choice, not yours. The ones claiming zoo, sanctuary? They get donations to foot the bill but all the enjoyment and learning while others foot the bill? And "I" am wrong?
There has been ZERO cases of Herpes B transmitted to a human in the private sector. Visit www. REXANO.org for more info. Snuggle your puppies and kitties in the mean time- they're next but already started on- educate yourself.
If a monkey throws poop it most likely hasn't had it's psychological needs met although they aren't anymore sacred about poop than any dog I know generally. Yes, they even sniff butts on occasion amongst themselves- that's animals in general. A lot has been learned about keeping of primates, more to be learned always- just as about human health. Many people do know and are willing to keep learning- there has been ZERO deaths caused by primates in the private sector in the U.S.
If so many domestic animals need homes, let me ask you this. How many children desperately need homes? How many have you given a home to? Do you have children of your own choosing? If so, why? ...to any of the preceding questions.
A) Yes, but that doesn't give that person a right to do so. I doubt a pet monkey is as happy as a wild one.
B) Such "right" people are very rare. Many people who sees your well-kept primates will be convinced they can do just as good a job. Of the exotic pets acquired by such people, at least 9/10ths will be dead within a year. I used to do a very good job of keeping herps and birds, but when I realized I was encouraging others, I stopped putting money into an industry that accepts this kind of death rate and started doing rescue work instead.
C) How can a creature that is so often defanged and then disposed of as dangerous around age 3 be considered a pet--let alone a child substitute, which is the sad purpose for which so many monkeys are purchased?
D) If it's true that they aren't really taken from their freshly killed mothers, where do baby monkeys come from? How do we know?
I find the keeping of primates as pets tragic and dangerous. For every person that gets it right, there have got to be at least twenty very unhappy, unhealthy monkeys languishing in cages and/or biting people who think they ought to wear clothing. That's not even to mention the danger of zoonotic disease.
Just my tuppence.
B) Such "right" people are very rare.I personally know about 300 people with primates and They ALL seem very well taken care of !! Many people who sees your well-kept primates will be convinced they can do just as good a job. Of the exotic pets acquired by such people, at least 9/10ths will be dead within a year.I personally raise 2 macaques, a 4 year old and a 5 yr. old and they are both very well taken care of and very happy !! I used to do a very good job of keeping herps and birds, but when I realized I was encouraging others, I stopped putting money into an industry that accepts this kind of death rate and started doing rescue work instead. That's your choice to make, let us keep our right to choose also !!
C) How can a creature that is so often defanged and then disposed of as dangerous around age 3 be considered a pet--let alone a child substitute, which is the sad purpose for which so many monkeys are purchased? Again mine are 4 & 5 and they are not substitutes for my children but they are very much a part of our family just as our dog was for 14 yrs. until she passed away last yr.
D) If it's true that they aren't really taken from their freshly killed mothers, where do baby monkeys come from? How do we know? What makes you think the mothers are killed ?? Do they kill dogs or cats when they take their pups & kittens to sell ??
PLEASE educate yourselves before you start trying to tell others how to live their lives and what sort of animals you feel we should be able to love !!
As for monkeys in private homes, private individuals who have researched their care are capable often times better than most zoos because they don't need to answer to anyone regarding their care and buying them products. Private owners spend huge amounts of time with their primates along with a large investment in their environments with much enrichment items. Honestly, of all the zoos I have visited (several in my lifetime) none have had better enclosures than those of primate owners.
We are rediculed and placed in the same group with bad owners which is untrue. There are good owners, and bad owners. Again, As with all animals. For those of us who have chosen to commit ourselves to our monkeys it is a labor of love, and we reap the rewards daily.
For the person who above who said "who gave you the right to own a monkey? my response is who gave you the right to own a dog or cat? If that were the deciding issue then noone would own any animal. A monkey is an animl just as a dog is they just require more work to keep happy. It should be up the owner to decide if they want to do all the work.
As for laws they are already illegal in most states. Most others do require permits. In FL, you need 1,000 experience, 2 recommendtions, and a husbandry application before you are approved for a permit. SO those who acquire their monkeys legally in FL ARE educated in their care. Those that acquire them illegaly will continue to do so whether they can or not. I applaud fair legislation such as those in FL. But oppose bans 100%. The only thing bans do is punnish the good owners who follow the law. The captive primate safety Act is a terrible piece of legislation. It doesn't stop the inter-state sale of primates. It stops sales between states. It also stops owners from moving to other states with their primate. We become prisoners of our state and if we are forced to move to another state we can't take our monkey with us. It must be left in a sactuary or euthanized. Then primate owners are blamed for giving up our monkeys. We didn't give them up, we have them taken from us because they become illegal in our area with no grandfather clause, or we are FORCED to leave them behind because we cn't cross state lines with them even if permanently moving. How you you dog owners feel if you had your dog for 10 years and had to leave him behind because your mother got sick in another state and you had to move there to care for her, and then they kill him? One day it may happen to you if all these ban laws continue to pass. Animal rights groups won't stop until all animals are out of homes. Exotics are first because we are na easier target and they have brainwashed the public into believing monkeys are disease ridden, aggressive animals, which they are NOT. www. PetMonkeyInfo .com
Where are all these stats referrering to communicable diseases that humans catch from monkeys. The monkey pox for example was not transfered by monkeys but, by rodents.
In purchasing a non human primate for a pet it is like with anything. Buyer beware. How many diseased dogs and cats end up in family homes thru pet mills? A monkey is not for the casual buyer and must never be obtained on a whim for showing off. These are loving, living, breathing lifes that must not be shoved into a cage when the newness has worn off or chained like the neighbors' dog. I am tired of all the negitive photos of monkeys in captivity - yes there will be some but I also know of photos of primates as happy household members. The negitive press against non human primate is very one sided. Karen
BTW Bebe has never thrown poop. LOL I think that story probably came to be because of a monkey that was frustrated due to being teased for perverse human pleasure.
In regard to the person who stated that they owned herps and birds, but found that they were encouraging others to own exotics- so they stopped- that's sound advice for YOU. I've owned exotics, not monks, for over 5 years now- NO ONE who meets them, which is a select few, has ever went on to purchase their own. I am VERY CLEAR about the HARD WORK, TIME, and EFFORT it takes to properly care for these animals. Very, very, very clear. I don't want the average Joe Blow to own an exotic- two of mine come from the average Joe Blow and I've helped in the rescue of more then one over the years.
I look at exotic bans and I shake my head. Look at California... They've even went so far as to ban ferrets and Sugargliders. Yet, I know a lot of owners who have those critters in that state. I've asked them about veterinarian care- and I get a split- I get people who travel into other states for care and I get people who use their local VET for care. Obviously, the ban doesn't work there- why would it work anywhere else?
And once again, it's all about punishing the GOOD owners. Much like breed legislation. Sad, too sad.
http://myfwc.com/captive/captivewildlifetag.html
from top of page 7
"Issue: Disease transmission/Health concerns regarding public contact with primates.
She expressed that what the group keeps hearing about health issues do not apply and
made the following points: (refer to handout material)
.. OSHA not concerned with regulating disease situations.
.. Health Departments not overly concerned with regulating due to health issues.
.. Importation of primates stopped in 1975.
.. Monkey pox outbreak was not caused from primates.
.. Incidents of rabies low in primates. In exposure situations Health Departments do
not recommend euthanasia for testing purposes.
Issue: Disease transmission to humans from primates.
.. Herpes B
o 22 well documented cases in research facilities (exposure occurred in
research facilities).
o No documented cases outside of research facilities.
o Not in the pet trade.
.. HIV/SIV/SRV
o Only in research facilities, not in the pet trade.
.. TB
o Primate more likely to contract TB from humans.
o Primates can be tested for TB, no need to be overly concerned. "
I have known many non-human primate owners and never suspected they were required to take a course for permitting, much less 1000 hours. It seems most have no idea they're even required to get a permit, judging by their loose and free South Beach-strutting of their pets. There must be next to no enforcement of Florida's leislation, I'm forced to preliminarily conclude.
Clearly those of you reading this and responding to the negative effects of such legislation on your right to keep wild animals as pets are among the more educated primate owners out there. Can you not see that most wild animal owners are not as qualified as you are? Would you condemn thousands of animals every year to the hands of the careless so that you can be allowed to keep yours?
I believe that unless we exert tighter regulations on those that would keep wild animals inhumanely (via more sweeping legislation like this), sales will continue to persist to those unaware that keeping non-human primates is illegal or for those hoping to "pass." Sure, some will always slip through the loopholes but this bill tightens the noose.
As to zoos and other establishments: Agreed. Some should not be granted permits. An appropriately high level of scrutiny needs to be applied to all facilities housing non-human primates.
On the issue of dogs and cats suffering the same fate: If PETA has it's way, you're right; they might. But let's not cloud the issue by equating wild animals (raised in captivity though they may be) and their domesticated distant cousins. The comparison's far too weak.
I live in MIami, Florida, am VERY aware of the 1,000 hour requirement as are all other owners I know. The 1,000 hours in their care is just that, expreience. NOT banning us from taking them out in public. I have taken my monkeys to Lincoln Road (popular outdoor mall on South Beach) as well as on the beach itself. I am FULLY permitted and LEGAL in the state. Persons are allowed to take their dogs, cats, heck Mr. Clucky the chicken rides on his owners bike. Why can I not take my monkey? Why the double standard if my monkey is as well behaved as any other pet? I think it is better that my onkey spends time out with me seeing new places than being left at home. Have you ever stopped that monkey owner "strutting their pet on South Beach" to see if they are knowledgeable and are licesnced in the state? You may find that they ARE! I don't allow others to touch my monkeys, not because I fear they will do something but because of uneducated people who think they are diseased.
I get stopped and answer people's questions about them and I ALWAYS emphasize the HARD WORK, and DEDICATION it takes to raise a primate. All go home thanking me for my information and realizing that a monkey is NOT for them, yet they always wanted a monkey.
Monkeys aren't for everyone, but there ARE very good owners out there, myslef included, who love their primates, would do anything for them, and enjoy educating the public about the TRUTH regarding monkeys as pets.
* For Dasha, Susha and Mr. H, and my dear Peppy- my 4 non-human primates.
As to the double standard: It's not. Dogs and cats are way different from wild animals, especially NHPs. Again, I won't compare them.
There are certainly very knowledgable people who can and do take very good care of these creatures. However the general population should not be able to bring one home on a whim. And I would absolutely agree that there are tons of people who shouldn't have any other pet or children, either. I have had pets all of my life and I shouldn't have a reptile...even the bearded dragons I find so cute...because I have absolutely no idea how to properly care for it or give it a happy life. Same goes for a horse or a goat despite my BS in animal sciences. I do not have children and my heart breaks for those who are unloved and uncared for. Have I brought one home? No. Why? Because I'm 29, single, busy studying for a grad degree and heading a blood bank, and I am in no way qualified to heal a child who has had such a terrible life.
I am not currently working in vet med because I couldn't handle one more case of abuse or neglect or "convenience" euthanasia. At 19 I walked in excited, energetic, and thrilled to be learning so much and finally making my dream come true. At 23, I walked out exhausted, depressed, and bitter knowing that my love for animals and medicine was bigger than ever, but people will always exist IN MASSES who view their pets as disposable items. There was not only nothing I could do to change that, but I'd also have to kill the animals that they don't care about or worse yet, let others suffer hopelessly because the owners refused to allow me to do my job. IT HAPPENS EVERY DAY.
The people who read this blog are far more likey to be on the "exceptional" spectrum of pet owners--the ones that will do almost anything for their pets. I am sure no one here thinks I'm a freak for forking over $2300 for the chance to save my dog or for spending hours developing a shirt for my cockatiel to help shrink his inflamed and distended crop. Very few of us are the problem: we're the people that do our best to clean up the messes others create.
I'm not much for legislation mucking about in my affairs in pet ownership, but I just don't see exotics as your everyday pets. Captive born or not it is still a wild animal with special needs be to kept appropriately for that animal to have a fulfilled life. It astounds me that people can have tigers and the like just because they want to.
Exactly Marie!!!!!! As a responsible primate caretaker, I know hundreds of other responsible primate caretakers. The exception as I see it is the abused and neglected primates. Therefore the rule should not change for the majority of good caretakers because of a few publicized instances. A majority of the monkeys that I know live better than most humans. I have 4 macaques that are out of the cute baby stage. They range in ages 4, 5, 8 and 8 years old. They are all fully intact, canines and all and I interact with them hands on all day, every day. If you could see their smiles and the happy play, you would not be confused at all of whether or not they are completely and totally happy with me.
send links to articles regarding free-roaming spider monkeys. I might have to make a little trip
to FL. and nab me a couple of those darn menacing spider monks! Are you sure you don't have some unresolved childhood issues because you never got the monkey you always wanted...LOL!
I've had monkeys for years and darn it all anyway, I've never had one stitch let alone120! I think that one was the best remark yet, at least it made me laugh. Maybe you can convince people that monkeys carry rabies too!
If you ever have a question about who wrote anything on a blog, check the About Us section. This should clear things up. Nothing here is ever anonymous.
nothing I wrote about my personal experiences is confabulated: I know someone whose lemur opened up her whole arm in a 120 stitch fiasco. I grew up in a house in Miami with a group of spider monkeys as occasional visitors and know of a current small colony in Coconut Grove.
I don't believe I discussed the disease transmission as a personal anecdote--that's all from the testimony and don't deserve to be attacked on that score, either.
In the future no personal attacks, please. It's just not cool.
Primates are quite routinely very badly cared for especially by people not prepared for the effects of puberty and the risks of zoonoses. Responsible owners tend to group together and perhaps not see what is happening out there in unregulated trade and 'whim' ownership. One visit to a weekend primate swap might might be informative for those wanting to go the way of voluntary regulation or even non-regulation instead.
Of course this ban is limiting the rights of the highly skilled minority capable of meeting the demands of primates complex needs. But the question is, just how many animals should be allowed to suffer before either strict regulations or bans are brought in? This is not a frivolous or rhetorical question. At this time AVMA and a few other veterinary groups, HSUS and researchers like Goodall are all on the same page, and I think that says something.
I know- I know, Dr Khuly says you can't compare domestics to exotics, but as a keeper of both- I surely feel I can. You could say the SAME thing about domestic animals- and PETA does make the same argument about them. How many dogs and cats must languish in the pound and be euthanized before stricter laws are in place (spay/neuter, breed bans, etc).
And yes, I was so impressed last night because this discussion had been really quite civil- and I think some of the people against exotics are probably rather surprised to know there ARE intelligent, well-spoken, good owners out there. There are ;) I think there are more good owners then bad owners of exotics out there- but we'll never really know because a lot of the GOOD owners don't share their animals in a public setting (ie with other people as well as on the internet).
The Florida Board, as stated above, in their committee has admitted that there is virtually no transmittance of disease from monk to human when we are talking about privately owned monks and not research animals. Just like in the world of pitbull bans, it's easy to spin the facts- if you are looking at all monkey bites and you see a high degree of disease transferance, of course- you are going to think, "BAN THEM ALL!" But when you realize that the disease is coming from a select group of animals that usually have been EXPOSED to these diseases by HUMANS doing experiments- and that these are not the same captive bred, captive raised monks that the private sector owns- well, I think you have to admit your information and numbers are skewed.
The ignorance about monks is amazing and so easily passed from person to person. I remember as a vet tech, seeing a larger Monk (I don't know what it was- sorry!) come in because the individual heard our vet saw exotics. WELL- not THOSE types of exotics! The head vet went on and on about all of the diseases Monks carry and how he just KNEW this Monk would kill the whole hospital if it was allowed to be seen. Good thing I know NOW that he was full of... it.
Learning about exotics, any exotics, is a lifetime experience. You can't just pick up a book and 'know it all'. You have to be willing to learn- continuously- and to roll with that knowledge if it ever contradicts the knowledge you already have. I'm so glad I've been blessed to know individuals and animals 'outside of the box'.
Zoonoses of house pets other than dogs, cats and birds (9 pages) By Bruno B. Chomel, DVM, Ph.D.
Pediatric Infectious Diseases Journal, 1992: 11:479-87 http://www.sonic.net/~melissk/chomel.html
Parent and Pediatrician Knowledge, Attitudes, and Practices Regarding Pet-Associated Hazards (5 pages) http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/issues/v152n10/ffull/...
Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee ZOONOTIC DISEASES (huge listing of diseases - links)
http://research.ucsb.edu/connect/acc/policy.html
Accordingto the above sources, humans can get more diseases from dogs, cats, farm animals and rodents than monkeys!
There has NEVER been a death to a humanm from a primate in the private sector, NEVER! According to the CDC, there has never been a confirmed case of rabies or herpes from non human primate to human in the private sector.
As a responsible primate owner, I am constantly educating myself and learning all that I can to keep my companions safe, healthy and happy. So far I am doing an excellent job on all 3 counts. Do I recommend any Tom, Dick or Harry should have a monkey too? No way! But I don't think everybody has it in them to properly care for a cat or dog either. There are just good and bad people that own all types of animals and it is not fair to punish the majority of any group of animal caretakers because of the few bad owners.
If the proposed bans go through, what are responsible owners supposed to do? Most travel out of state for the very best veterinary care for their monkeys.
2-NHP are docile then turn mean ? Ever hear of a dog biting its owner- or any kid in the neighborhood ?
3-Most NHP owners I know make sure their animals have all of their immunizations. If more vets treated NHPs more of the animals would have their immunizations.
4-Unless you are a research facility- it is next to impossible to import NHPs.
5- The State of Florida has laws already in place to protect both animals and the public. Laws which are enforced by FWC. We don't need more laws- we need to allow FWC to do their job.
6- I have maintained an exotic animal facility for 10 years and have NEVER seen a monkey "throw poop". I think this may be an old wives tale.
7- Suggestion - get your facts straight before you publish.
There is difference between having a different opinion and not knowing the facts.
I live and work in Miami and testified at the same Congressional Hearing that Dr. Gobal, Dr. Goodall and Steve Ross did. The US Fish and Wildlife Service and the DuMond Conservancy for Primates and Tropical Forests were opposed to this bill ( H.R. 2964).
I would be happy to send you a copy of my testimony (and USFWS's) if you would like to post it for a balanced discussion.
Sian Evans, Ph.D.
DuMond Conservancy for Primate's and Tropical Forests, Inc
Miami, Florida